Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX SCM 106
Copyright (C) HIX
1995-09-12
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
3 Hungarian electronic resources FAQ (mind)  1403 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Looking For Hungarian Word Processor (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: SCM: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCI (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: **INTERNSHIP OPPORTUNITY IN DC** (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
8 Magyar-English dictionary. (mind)  4 sor     (cikkei)
9 Driving in Hungary (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
11 Penpals 12-13yr old (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN F (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: SCM: Re: Looking For Hungarian Word Processor (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
14 Message not deliverable (mind)  457 sor     (cikkei)
15 Message not deliverable (mind)  199 sor     (cikkei)
16 Message not deliverable (mind)  264 sor     (cikkei)
17 Message not deliverable (mind)  807 sor     (cikkei)
18 Message not deliverable (mind)  300 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Nicolae Dobos  > wrote:

>Not even when Transylvania was 
>occupied by Hungary were there 2.5 million Hungarians. For your 
>information the correct number is 900,000. If you don't believe me, you 
>are welcome to go and count them yourself.

And where should we count you with that Hungarian name, Dobos?

Joe
+ - Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Janos Koplyay ) wrote:
: >Not long ago I met with two girls whom I haven't seen for about six
: >years, and I immediately noticed that they have a slight accent.
: >The funny thing is, however, they told me the same thing!!  Namely,
: >I speak hungarian with english accent.

: If you and girls (you recently met) noticed your english accent and you
: noticed the girl's english accent, how did you all know that you all had an
: english accent? Your logic escapes me unless neither one of you had an
: accent.

I happen to took Ling 200 last quarter.  One thing that was told to us 
that everyone has their own accent.

In any case, with the two girls, neither one of us spoke 'perfect'
Hungarian, and because we weren't used to each other's speak, we 
did notice it.   

: The Hungarian language I speak may be mixed with english expressions
: but never the pronounciation because its uiqueness. 

I said intonation.
+ - Hungarian electronic resources FAQ (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Archive-name: hungarian-faq
Last-modified: 1995/07/07
Version: 1.01
Posting-Frequency: every fifteen days

	Hungarian electronic resources FAQ

               TABLE OF CONTENTS

1.      News and discussion groups in English
1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute
1.2  News from Central Europe Today
1.3  The Hungary Report
1.4  Hungary Online
1.5  Mozaik
1.6  On USENET
1.7  'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 
1.8  , a list for Hungarian-Americans

2.      News and discussion groups in Hungarian
2.1  HIX
2.2  Other discussion groups

3.      Interactive services
3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web
3.2  Gopher and other interactive services

4.      The Net in Hungary
4.1  BITNET/HUEARN
4.2  HUNGARNET
4.3  FidoNet
4.4  Finding out somebody's email address

5.      Odds and ends
5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary
5.2  Conventions for coding Hungarian accents
5.3  Information sources about the rest of Central and Eastern Europe

6.      Contributors to this FAQ

7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 I know this is very long, perhaps too long for human consumption ;-).
One of the tasks for further editing is to make it more concise,
perhaps drop some parts altogether (I'd like to hear any suggestions).
You can search for the section titles listed above and skip what you
don't want, and many Unix newsreaders would jump ahead to the next one
with Ctrl-G (the format now follows the digest specification)!

------------------------------

Subject: 1.  NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS IN ENGLISH

 Note: commercial networks -- such as CompuServe or AOL -- may have
their own in-house forums relating to Eastern and Central Europe. Be
aware that those are only open to the subscribers of the particular
service, unlike the discussion groups accessible by anyone via the
Internet and Usenet! This file -- the hungarian-faq -- is primarily
concerned with resources freely available netwide.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute

 The Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest is available via
electronic mail, at no charge. The Digest covers all of the former
Soviet Union, East-Central and Southeastern Europe and is delivered in
two parts, each roughly 15 kByte in size, Monday through Friday (except
Czech holidays).

 You can subscribe by sending <mailto:>.
In the body of the message, type
 "SUBSCRIBE OMRI-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname" (leave out the quotation
marks and be sure to substitute your own name where shown).

 You can get reposts of just the items related to Hungary by
subscribing to Mozaik. See section 1.5.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.2  News from Central Europe Today

 Central Europe Today On-Line is a free daily news service covering the
important events and business news in the region. To subscribe, send
the word SUBSCRIBE <mailto:>. For more
detailed information, send a blank email message
<mailto:>.

Again, these exceed Hungary in scope, but you can get excerpts
pertaining to Hungary in Mozaik (see 1.4).

------------------------------

Subject: 1.3  The Hungary Report

 The Hungary Report is a free weekly English-language online update of
news and analysis direct from Budapest each Sunday. The Report consists
of briefs, one feature story and an expert political opinion column.
The briefs cover the most important and interesting developments in
Hungary each week, while the feature stories address variously
politics, business, economics, arts and leisure. The weekly political
column, Parliament Watch, is written by Tibor Vidos, director of the
Budapest office of GJW, a British political lobbying and consulting
firm. To subscribe, send
<mailto:> containing (in the body
of the message, not in the headers) the single word "subscribe" (no
quotes).  Or send the word "info" to the same address for further
information.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.4  Hungary Online

 This discussion list is a "kind of Internet supplement" to the column
of the same title in Budapest Business Journal; to subscribe, send the
word "subscribe" <mailto:> (you'll get help
from its Majordomo server, if needed).

------------------------------

Subject: 1.5  MOZAIK

 This is actually one of the services of HIX, meaning there's a slight
bit of Hungarian mixed in (the posts themselves are mostly in English,
but the server speaks Hunglish ;-)). Mozaik brings you, among other
things, reposts of those news items (originating from OMRI, CET and
other sources) that bear directly on Hungary. You can subscribe by
sending a blank email message to <mailto:> and
unsubscribe by sending one to <mailto:>. See
section 3 about searching the HIX archives.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.6  On USENET

 The Hungarian newsgroup in the worldwide hierarchy is
<news:soc.culture.magyar>.  It's mostly in English, sometimes
bilingual, and occasionally Hungarian only. The group is archived 
by HIX (see its section for 'SCM').

 Since May 1995 Hungary has its own netnews hierachy, with the following
groups created so far (hun.lists.* are email gateways):
        <news:hun.test>
        <news:hun.news>
        <news:hun.piac>
        <news:hun.comp>
        <news:hun.general>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.forum>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.hunet>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.moka>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.otthonka>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.szalon>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.tipp>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.vita>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.otthon>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.guru>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.kornyesz>
                <news:hun.lists.katalist>

 If you can connect to a remote news server (typically by setting the
NNTPSERVER variable under Unix), then you can get hun.* directly from
news.sztaki.hu or news.iif.hu (the former has been more stable
lately). Fetching articles is much faster from a local source - ask
you system administrator if they can get a feed! In the USA the first
provider offering the hierarchy seems to be AltNet,
<mailto:> to find out about that.  There is a gopher
interface to news: <gopher://mars.iif.hu:70/11/News> (the full URL to
go straight to the hun.* groups is:
<gopher://mars.iif.hu:70/1exec%3A-g%20hun%3A/bin/gonnrp>). These groups
are also archived by HIX (see its section for 'HUNGROUPS').

 There are Hungarian local newsgroups available through
<telnet://ludens.elte.hu>, login with username GUEST (no password), and
enter NEWS to start the newsreader (you can use the VMS online help to
learn about it). The guest account is set up for accessing
<news:elte.diaklap> (students' journal at Eotvos U.), but other
newsgroups are available as well. (But please be considerate to the
strained network resources of Hungarian sites - from abroad for
non-local news use other providers.) For ELTE-specific questions
contact <mailto:>. This server is also accessible
via remote NNTP like the two mentioned above, but is often much slower
than those.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.7  'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 

  is a discussion group providing rapid communication
among those with interests in Hungarian issues. Subscribe by 
<mailto:> using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY Yourfirstname Lastname.  Once you
have subscribed, any messages which you want to send to the group
should be sent to the group address, <mailto:>.
(This pattern of two addresses is standard: you turn your mail off and
on at the "listserv" address, and you send mail to the listname
address.  For example, to  unsubscribe, send the server the message
SIGNOFF HUNGARY.  You can temporarily turn off you mail by sending
listserv the message SET HUNGARY NOMAIL.  SET HUNGARY MAIL turns mail
back on.) By default the listserv sends out messages as they arrive,
maybe several ones on busier days. If you prefer daily digest format,
you can issue the command SET HUNGARY DIGESTS (again by sending it to
the LISTSERV address); alternatively you can subscribe to HUNGARY via
HIX as mentioned in 2.1, and receive the same format as the other lists
by HIX. LISTSERV has many useful features, most notably database search
on the list archives - to learn more about it, send commands like SEND
HELP, SEND HELP DATABASE.

 Note that the form of addressing LISTSERV lists such as Hungary may
depend a great deal on your local network configuration and mailer
software.  For BITNET mailers you need GWUVM only; the local gatewaying
to BITNET may be BITNET% for VAXMail installations and
 at other places. Ask your local network
administrator first if you're experiencing problems.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.8  , a list for Hungarian-Americans

 <mailto:> is a group providing rapid communication
mainly among those living in the USA with interests in Hungarian
issues (it has been created to serve the community mainly at the
University of Maryland and in its vicinity). Subscribe by
<mailto:> using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY . (Notice that this is distinct
from the older LISTSERV list mentioned in 1.7 that has a broader focus
- 'the HUNGARY list' ususally refers to that latter one!)

------------------------------

Subject: 2.  NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS IN HUNGARIAN

------------------------------

Subject: 2.1  HIX

 HIX, or Hollosi Information eXchange, is a non-profit formation run
and supported by several individuals and organizations. Its services,
almost exclusively in Hungarian, change frequently, so it is best to
obtain an up-to-date help file by sending a blank email message to
<mailto:> (a recent copy of that also seems to be in
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/MAIN/HELP.ALL>; - but please
notice that there are superseded copies scattered in other parts in
the archive on the one hand, and many of the other files in this same
directory are outdated on the other hand; most notably, DO NOT TOUCH
that ancient version of hungarian-faq found there!). Here's a list of
what it currently offers in email digest format:

 HIR      -- 'Hirmondo', current newspaper survey edited in Budapest
 NARANCS  -- The Internet edition of the 'Magyar Narancs' weekly
 SZALON   -- moderated political discussion forum
 FORUM    -- unmoderated political discussion forum
 TIPP     -- politics-free questions, tips etc.
 GURU     -- computer-related questions
 RANDI    -- moderated personals; anonymous submissions possible
 VITA     -- moderated non-political discussion forum
 OTTHON   -- issues around the home
 MOKA     -- jokes, humor (Hungarian and other)
 MOZAIK   -- semi-regular bits of news and other info, mostly in
	     English, crossposts from the OMRI list, VoA gopher, CET
	     and other sources
 HUNGARY  -- daily digest of the Hungary LISTSERV list (see 1.7)

 The following two are not available for email subscription from
outside Hungary, but are accessible via the SENDDOC interface (or the
'finger ' service for the latest issues):
 SCM      -- gatewayed email digest of the Usenet newsgroup
             soc.culture.magyar 
 HUNGROUPS - gatewayed email digest of the hun.* regional newsgroups

 Note that KEP (transcripts from the videotext news from Hungarian
Television's Kepujsag) has been suspended indefinitely - despite what
HIX' own HELP says.

 To subscribe (unsubscribe) to a particular email-journal, send email
to  ) where NAME is one of the
above.

 The postings for the HIX discussion lists are sent out daily in
digested form. You can send your own submission to ,
whatever NAME is (provided it's actually a discussion list).

 The volume for some of these lists is becoming rather high, e.g. TIPP
often digests dozens of messages in hundreds of lines daily!  You ought
to try targeting your audience properly in order to find those who'd
help with your questions; also keep in mind that readers often answer
to the list rather than the individual even when personal reply is
requested, so if you ask something it's a good idea to subscribe also
(even though technically it's not required) instead of just addressing
a list as a non-subscriber. A reminder to those who reply to a post:
always remember that list messages get sent to several hundred readers,
so consider personal email if the subject is not of general interest!
If you answer through a list it's courteous to send a personal copy
(Cc: with most mailers) as well - this may reach the addressee
considerably earlier than the post distributed through the list.
 Notice the (undocumented) feature of the HIX mail-server: it only
accepts submissions if its address is found in the 'To:' header field!
It would quietly ignore incoming email Cc-d to it, so do not put the
 in the 'Cc:' (you can do so with other addressees).

 The HIX server can also send out archived files, see the SENDDOC
function in its description. In case you have any problems or questions
on the HIX services, please read through the automatic help response
first. If you need human intervention you can reach
<mailto:> - but keep in mind that list managers have
to do plenty other than answering things already laid out in the Fine
Manual.

 You can also view the output of HIX interactively. See section 3.

------------------------------

Subject: 2.2  Other discussion groups in Hungarian

 A number of email lists are available from servers located in Hungary,
for directory see <gopher://HUEARN.sztaki.hu>. There are many college
publications available online as well, check out the links from the HU
homepage (see below).

------------------------------

Subject: 3. INTERACTIVE SERVICES

 If you are using Hungarian interactive services from abroad (or vice
versa): please note that interactive Internet connections like gopher
may be very slow, even timing out during peak hours - try times of
lower network load when the response time is usually reasonable.

------------------------------

Subject: 3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web

 This document you are reading now is hosted at
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq>;, and its directory
has a few other documents and several links to other sites of
interest.

 The Hungarian Home Page is at
<http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/homepage.html>; with links to the
registered Hungarian www servers, including

 - the Prime Minister's Office:  <http://www.meh.hu>; (overseas users
please notice that the use of the <http://www.hungary.com/meh/>;
mirror is requested to cut down transatlantic traffic!)

 - a weather forecast page (this is updated daily, and includes weather
forecasts, meteorological maps, and METEOSAT satellite images; this
page is in Hungarian)

 - home pages of Hungarian cities (currently Budapest, Debrecen,
Miskolc, Pecs, Szeged), and of educational and other institutions 

 - a comprehensive list of Hungarian telnet services (e.g. library 
databases), gopher and ftp sites (3.2). The content of almost all the 
Hungarian FTP sites is indexed and can be searched.

 HIX has a WWW server in the USA: the URL is <http://hix.mit.edu>;.
Besides back issues of its email journals, and a plethora of other
files in Hungarian and English, it offers an on-line English-Hungarian,
Hungarian-English dictionary (<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/szotar/>; - its
European mirror is at <http://tpri6l.gsi.de/szotar.html>;), and various
home pages and pointers to other sources. Partial mirrors located in
Hungary are <http://www.eunet.hu/eunet/hix/>; (for the Magyar Narancs
archive), and <http://hal9000.elte.hu/hix/>; (for some pictures, and
searching the Radir database - see below).

 The Open Media Research Institute has a WWW server, available at
<http://www.omri.cz>;.  Available at this Web site are all back issues
of the Daily Digest, tables of contents for Transition, OMRI's
bi-weekly analytical journal, and information about OMRI's activities
and staff.

 The World Wide Web server of Central Europe Today is at the URL
<http://www.eunet.cz>;.

 Find back issues of the Hungary Report on the World Wide Web at 
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-report/>;. The Hungary-Online archive is
available from <http://www.yak.net/hungary-online/>; as well.

  A new directory server <http://www.hungary.com/hudir/>; 
catalogize hierarchically the growing number of Hungarian Internet 
info sources.  There is a similar collection at
<http://www.glue.umd.edu/~gotthard/hir.html>;.

 There is a "Foreign Languages for Travellers" collection of essential
Hungarian expressions with English, German and French explanation,
complete with sound at
<http://insti.physics.sunysb.edu/~mmartin/languages/hungarian/hungarian.html>;.

 The American Association of Young Hungarians (AAYH) has its homepage
at <http://www.jvnc.net/~kerekes/>;.

 There are some nice pictures from Hungary at 
<http://wwwvms.utexas.edu/~HRISTOS/index.html>;.

------------------------------

Subject: 3.2  Gopher and other interactive services

 HIX has a server in the USA: <gopher://hix.mit.edu>. Its services
form just a subset of what it offers as a WWW site. RaDir is sometimes
useful for finding email-addresses, old or new friends on the Net. See
also Section 4.4.

 HIX has a gopher in Hungary as well:
<gopher://hix.elte.hu/11/HIX/HIX>, and another mirror at
<gopher://gopher.bke.hu:71/11/hix> (notice that this latter uses a
non-standard Gopher port number). Check also <gopher://gopher.elte.hu>
and <gopher://gopher.sztaki.hu>. Note that gopher is essentially
text-based (thus less satisfying than the Web) but often faster
(therefore less frustrating).

 CET's gopher is called <gopher://gopher.eunet.cz>.

 HIX documents from the archives of hix.mit.edu are available via the
(Unix) 'finger' protocol. Try 'finger ' to see how it
works.  This may be the easiest and fastest access from some sites.

 There is an electronic library at
<gopher://gopher.bke.hu:71/11/elibhu/> (notice the non-standard port)
that has much Hungarian text material, including some classical
poetry.

------------------------------

Subject: 4. THE NET IN HUNGARY

 Overview: historically, ELLA was the first home-grown X.25
email-system in Hungary. It survives till this very day. EARN was next,
with its BITNET-like infrastructure (4.1). Full Internet connectivity
is provided by HUNGARNET (see 4.2), which really comprises all
academic, research and public non-profit sites.

 Here's a partial list of its domain names:

bme.hu          Technical University of Budapest
sztaki.hu       Computer and Automation Research Institute, Budapest 
elte.hu         Roland Eotvos University of Sciences, Budapest
bke.hu          Budapest University of Economic Sciences
sote.hu         Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
abc.hu          Agricultural Biotechnology Center, Godollo 
gau.hu          Godollo Agricultural University, Godollo
klte.hu         Kossuth Lajos University of Sciences, Debrecen
jpte.hu         Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
u-szeged.hu     Members of the Szeged University Association
bgytf.hu        Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College
uni-miskolc.hu  University of Miskolc
kfki.hu         Central research Inst. of Physics, Budapest 
vein.hu         University of Veszprem, Veszprem
bdtf.hu         Berzsenyi College, Szombathely
szif.hu         Szechenyi Istvan College, Gyor
blki.hu         Balaton Limnological Res. Inst. of Hung. Acad. Sci.

A schematic map of its topology ('HBONE'):

EBONE    EMPB                          EMPB   EBONE

  ^       ^                             ^       ^
  |       |                             |       |
  |       |   Microwave center ======= IIF Center ------- Miskolci Egyetem
  |       |      Budapest            /   Budapest            Miskolc
  |       |    //  ||    \\         /   //   |
  |       |   //   ||     MTA-KFKI /   //    L--------------- BGYTF
  |       |  //   MBK     Budapest    //     |             Nyiregyhaza
  |       | //   Godollo             //      |
  |      BME              MTA-SzTAKI//       L--------------- KLTE
  |    Budapest ########## Budapest          |              Debrecen
  |      ***                                 |
  |      ***                                 L--------------- GAMF
  L------BKE                                 |              Kecskemet
       Budapest                              |
          #    \                             L---------- Veszpremi Egyetem
          #     \                            |              Veszprem
         ELTE    \                           |
       Budapest   JATE                       L--------------- JPTE
                 Szeged                                       Pecs

 LEGEND

 ***  100 Mbps FDDI
  #    10 Mbps optical cable (Ethernet)
  =     2 Mbps microwave
  |    64 kbps leased line (that's 0.064 Mbps)

Source: HUNGARNET/NIIF (URL <http://www.iif.hu/hungarnet.html>;)

 FidoNet is described in section 4.3, and commercial
networks/email/Internet Providers demand a separate document
('commercial.FAQ'), also see <http://www.sztaki.hu/providers/>;.

------------------------------

Subject: 4.1  BITNET/HUEARN

 What follows is a listing of all EARN nodes in Hungary, with contact
info.  This information is also available on the following gopher:
	 <gopher://cc1.kuleuven.ac.be/11/nodeearn/hungary.helpnode>.

HUBIIF11 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                      
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : hubiif11.sztaki.hu                   
      User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBIIF61 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                    
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : mars.iif.hu                          
      User Info: Istvan ;+36 1 1665644
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBME11  Technical University of Budapest
     Technical University;of Budapest;Muegyetem rkp 9. R. ep;H-1111
     Budapest, Hungary           
     Internet address : atlantis.bme.hu                      
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 4632422               
     Fax : +36 1 1665711             

HUBME51  Technical University of Budapest                                  
     Technical University;Muegytem Rakpart 9;H-1111 Budapest               
     Internet address : bmeik.eik.bme.hu                     
     User Info: Laszlo ;+36 1 1812172                 
     Phone : +36 1 1812172            ; Fax : +36 1 1166711             

HUBPSZ12 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                  
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hubpsz12.sztaki.hu                   ;
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBPSZ61 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             

HUBPSZ62 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of
     Sciences;Lagymanyosi ut 11;1111 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUEARN   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary               
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : huearn.sztaki.hu                     ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 2698286                   
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUECO    University of Economic Sciences Budapest, Hungary                 
     University of Economic Sci;Computer Center;Kinizsi u 1-7;1092 Budapest
     Internet address : ursus.bke.hu                         ;
     User Info: Robert ;+36 1 1175224                    
     Phone : +36 1 1181317            ; Fax : +36 1 1175224             

HUELLA   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary           
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Node admin: Gizella ;+36 1 1497986                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGBOX   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary            
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hugbox.sztaki.hu                    ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 1497532                
     Phone : +36 1 1497532            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGIRK51 University of Agriculture Sciences
     University of Agriculture;Pater Karoly ut 1;H-2103 Godollo
     Internet address : vax.gau.hu                           ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 28 30200 -1015              
     Phone : +36 28 30200 -1015       ; Fax : +36 28 20804              

HUKLTEDR Kossuth Lajos University Debrecen, Hungary                       
     Internet address : dragon.klte.hu                       ;
     User Info: Robert                           

HUKLTE51 Kossuth Lajos University, Debrecen                                 
     Kossuth Lajos University;Egyetem Ter 1; PF. 58;H-4010 Debrecen        
     Internet address : huni7.cic.klte.hu                    ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 52 18800                      
     Phone : +36 52 18800             ; Fax : +36 52 16783              

HUSOTE51 University of Medical Science Budapest, Hungary                   
     University of Medical Science;SOTE;Ulloi u. 26.;1085 Budapest         
     Internet address : janus.sote.hu                        ;
     User Info: Gabor ;+36 1 1141705                 
     Phone : +36 1 1141705            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866

HUSZEG11 Jozsef Attila University, Szeged, Hungary                         
     Jozsef Attila University;Computer Centre;Arpad ter 2.;H-6720
     Szeged;Hungary                
     User Info: Ferenc ;+36 62 321022
     Miklos ;+36  
     Phone : +36 62 321022            ; Fax : +36 62 322227             

------------------------------

Subject: 4.2  HUNGARIAN ACADEMIC AND RESEARCH NETWORK (HUNGARNET)

 This information is also available on
<http://www.ripe.net/ripe/hungarnet.html>;.

Organisational Structure: 
 HUNGARNET is an association and also the computer network of Hungarian
institutes of higher education, research and development, libraries and
other public collections. HUNGARNET funding comes from the R&D
Information Infrastructure Program (IIF) sponsored by the Hungarian
Academy of Science, the National Committee of Technological
Development, the Ministry for Culture and Education and the National
Science Foundation. About 500 organizations have access to HUNGARNET
services. HUNGARNET as an association represents Hungary in
international networking organizations (e.g. TERENA).

Generic Services:
 HUNGARNET provides access to the Internet and several other national
network services over leased lines and the public packet switched data
network. Lot of different services (e.g. gopher, ftp, WWW, data bases)
provided by member organizations are available on the net. Centrally
supported and coordinated services are:
 - email (internet SMPT, EARN BSMTP, OSI X.400, UUCP, XXX ELLA) 
 - email gateways between the different email systems above 
 - distribution services (LISTSERV, news) 
 - information services (ftp, gopher, WWW servers, data bases) 
 - directory services (X.500) 
 - individual accounts and login

External Connectivity:  
 HUNGARNET is subscriber to EBONE and EMPB/EuropaNET as well. There are
two 64 kbps leased lines to EBONE (Vienna EBS). These two lines should
be upgraded to a single 256 kbps line in the near future.  HUNGARNET
uses two 64 kbps interfaces on the EMPB/EuropaNET node in Budapest as
well. These two interfaces should also be upgraded to a single 256 kbps
interface very soon.

Internal Connectivity: 
 Internal connectivity of HUNGARNET is based partly on the public X.25
service of the Hungarian PTT and partly on the community's private IP
backbone network (HBONE). The kernel of the HBONE infrastructure is in
Budapest, where several important organizations are connected in
different ways (64-256 kbps leased lines, 1-2 Mbps microwave links, 10
Mbps optical Ethernet, 100 Mbps FDDI). Several cities (regional
centers) in the country are also connected to the network via 64 kbps
leased lines (Miskolc, Nyiregyhaza, Debrecen, Kecskemet, Szeged, Pecs,
Veszprem) and 2 Mbps microwave (Godollo). Now there are about 50
organizations directly connected to the backbone and about 50 others
using IP over X.25. The number of the registered, connected hosts is
about ten thousand. There is an ongoing development, new regional
centers (Kaposvar, Keszthely, Szombathely, Sopron, Gyor) and several
organizations in Budapest will be connected subsequently.  Many users
do not have IP connectivity yet but are connected to the public X.25
network. There are several services (e.g. individual login, mail,
gopher, news) that are open for traditional XXX/X.25 access.

Contact Persons:
Miklos NAGY <mailto:> - head of the HUNGARNET/IIF 
					coordination office
Laszlo CSABA <mailto:> - HUNGARNET/IIF technical director
Balazs MARTOS <mailto:> - HBONE project manager
Nandor HORVATH <mailto:> - Local Internet Registry, 
				.hu top level domain contact
IP address and domain administration: <mailto:> 
Network management: <mailto:>

------------------------------

Subject: 4.3  FidoNet

 FidoNet connects through sztaki.hu, as indicated above.

 There are three FidoNet nodes: Budapest NET (2:371/0); West Hungary
Net (2:372/0); and Tisza NET (2:370/0). If you want to write on the
FidoNet, chances are you already know how. *PLEASE* find out what you
are about to do instead of experimenting with the Hungarian net - don't
add to the problems for the folks in Hungary having to deal with the
underdeveloped phone system and outrageous international tolls ;-<. For
further information I post a Fido-sheet separately from this FAQ, where
there are also telephone numbers and further addresses, but again: try
to verify that you are mailing to a valid address (the BBS situation
may have changed since the copy you are reading got updated - look for
current FIDO listing on the net, or better yet contact the person you
want to reach by other means first)!. If you can send Internet email
and have the FidoNet address, you can write to it by transforming it to
appropriate .FIDONET.ORG format.

 Fidonet mail works with Hungarian BBS's but you have to know whom to
reach. I will attempt to maintain a separate Fido posting to Usenet;
please try to make sure you email to a valid address and in particular
avoid using outdated sources on Hungarian BBS's (otherwise your
misdirected trial will burden the Hungarian network coordinator!).

------------------------------

Subject: 4.4  Finding out somebody's email-address in Hungary

 The bigger academic domains have on-line directories (CSO phonebooks):

Technical University, Budapest
      gopher://goliat.eik.bme.hu/11/engl/tel-adat/hazi-tele

Budapest University of Economic Sciences*
      gopher://URSUS.BKE.HU:71/11/kozgaz/telefon
(*under construction)

Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
      <gopher://xenia.sote.hu:105/2>

Central Research Inst. of Physics, Budapest
      <gopher://sunserv.kfki.hu:105/2>

Members of the Szeged University Association
      <gopher://sol.cc.u-szeged.hu:105/2>

Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
      <gopher://ipiux.jpte.hu:1051/2>
	<http://ipisun.jpte.hu/cgi-bin/ph.pl>;

University of Veszprem
      <gopher://miat0.vein.hu:105/2>

 ELLA also has an on-line directory: <telnet://hugbox.sztaki.hu:203>
(i.e. address a special port). Note that the opening screen uses
special characters for the accented letters but the data records have
combinations of vowel plus ',: or " instead (i.e. searching for
hollo'si would retrieve a record, but hollosi won't)!

 If the person has registered him/herself with the RaDir database of
HIX, you might try the following (note, however, that most parts of
RaDir are badly out of date):

 - by <gopher://hix.mit.edu/11/HIX/radir> (a link to the same is
offered by <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/>; on the World Wide Web); from
inside Hungary use <gopher://hix.elte.hu/11/HIX/HIX/radir>, or
<http://hal9000.elte.hu/hix/radir.html>; (this last one is a true HTML
search form)). Under RaDir, you'll find the entire database
cross-indexed by search keys.

 - by 'finger +whois:"SEARCHWORD"@hix.mit.edu' you can look up records
containing "SEARCHWORD" string in the database

 - by email: send a blank message <mailto:>. You'll
receive, in several chunks, the entire database of users, their
electronic and snail-mail addresses, etc. You'll need a decent editor
to search what you're looking for.

 If you have some idea what institution to check at, you may find an
online directory service -- many are available, and could be reached
through the Hungarian gophers (or WWW sites) mentioned in section 3.
Try contacting the (electronic) postmaster, usually
, or using 'finger' to inquire about users.

 As a last resort, send in your query to a discussion group. Readers of
<news:soc.culture.magyar>, <mailto:> discussion
list (section 1.7), or some HIX-list (<mailto:> in
particular, see 2.1) may be able to help. Be aware, though, that most
participants are located abroad - especially in the case of the Usenet
group!

------------------------------

Subject: 5.  ODDS AND ENDS

------------------------------

Subject: 5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary

 The electricity is 220 V, 50 Hz. The frequency, in fact, fluctuates a
lot, but it doesn't cause any problem when operating computer devices.
(Don't trust too much your plug-in clock radios though.) If you are
from any country running on 110 V or around, due to complications in
voltage conversion, a battery driven laptop or notebook is your best
bet. However, if you decide to take your desktop system, printer, etc.,
you  have a good chance that the device can also be operated on 220 V.
Check it first before you go through unnecessary trouble. If not, you
have to apply 220 V to 110 V AC converters (you might need more than
one; check the power ratings of your devices & converters). WARNING!
Your converters should be designed for *electronic/motorized devices*.
Refuse any converter for *heating appliances* even if its power rating
is much higher! These converters are not real transformers, and can
cause major damages to your electronic devices.

 Also make sure you are able to connect to the Hungarian grounded power
outlet, because that's what's recommended for your appliances.
Therefore you should try to find grounded plug adapters and/or voltage
converters.  Connecting to ungrounded outlets causes possibly no harm,
but for your own & your devices' safety grounded connections should be
preferred.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2  Conventions & standards for coding Hungarian accents

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.0 Introduction & section overview  

 During the evolution of teletypes and computers, two character tables
survived, acquiring major importance in later computer systems. One is
EBCDIC, primarily used in ancient IBM mainframes. The other one, ASCII,
can be considered today's ubiquitous standard in computing worldwide.
The rest of this section, therefore, pays attention to ASCII code, very
unfairly ignoring EBCDIC, since none of the accent conversion programs
support neither this code table nor the CMS environment.

 Since the language of computing has been English from the beginning,
the original ASCII table was limited to the characters used in English:
letters of the Latin alphabet, a few punctuation marks and some other
special symbols. Since the number of all these characters, plus the
unprintable "control" characters (located in the first 32 positions of
the ASCII table, responsible for different control functions) doesn't
exceed 128, the real 'brilliant' idea of representing the ASCII table
in 7 bits spread like wild fire all over the computer world. No wonder,
that most of the Internet mailers and Usenet hubs are also set up to
forward documents in 7-bit ASCII only.  (Read the rest of the section
carefully to learn how to overcome these problems.) As computing and
word processing started to rise up in the rest of the world, there was
an increasing demand to represent these national characters as well. (A
good example is Hungarian. The extra consonants [nonexistent in
English] are formed by merely juxtaposing 2 (or 3 in case of dzs)
regular Latin characters; so there is no problem here.  However, the
special vowels of the language are denoted by applying different
accents on the Latin 'base-vowel', introducing new characters, the so
called accented vowels.) It's an obvious idea to place these national
characters and other fancy symbols utilizing codes 128 to 255, still
remaining within the byte limit. Different character sets have been
created by defining purpose- or language-specific characters for the
upper half of the table, while keeping the 7-bit ASCII codes unchanged.
(Note:  Some character sets also re-use codes between 0 and 31, the
domain of ASCII control characters, keeping some, or none of them.
Using these codes, however, is pretty difficult, device- and
implementation-dependent, etc.  Therefore it wouldn't be wise to put
accented characters here, but fortunately none of the sets listed below
did it actually.) Hopefully Unicode will ultimately stop this
confusion, but until then there's a long long way to go.

At this point let's clarify the terminology:

.. ASCII (also 7-bit or plain ASCII) data:
Usually text (but not necessarily, see 5.2.5.1.), containing only 7-bit
ASCII characters, including the control ones.
.. 8-bit (extended) ASCII data:
Text containing the uniform 7-bit ASCII characters, plus special
characters (with code greater than 127) according to one of the 8-bit
character sets.
.. Binary data:
Non-text data (executables, pictures, etc.) containing any 8-bit value.

 The different kludges accepted by Internet users to denote accented
vowels in 7-bit ASCII are described in 5.2.1. The most important
extended ASCII character sets are introduced in 5.2.2. 5.2.3 shows the
accented character representations used by high-level formatting
languages. The correct ways of transferring files among word processor
[on the Net] are detailed in 5.2.4. If the data to be transferred is
not 7-bit ASCII, 5.2.5 tells you what to do. Last, but not least, 5.2.6
introduces the programs in the HIX archives (and mentions some others)
that address the problem of conversion between the various types of
accent representation.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.1 House rules for plain (7-bit) ASCII

 If you are limited to the use of 7-bit ASCII, you have essentially the
following choices to deal with the accented characters:

5.2.1.0 No accent marks at all

 Simple and sure-fire. In fact, the most common 'solution'.

5.2.1.1 The '~" coding (also called "marking notation" or "Babai-code")
        [Sometimes nicknamed as _repu~lo"_.]

 Here's a sample:

         O~t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu~nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu~ko~rfu'ro'ge'p
         O~t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru~lt i'ro't nyu'z

or, in the alternative ':" _repu:lo"_ format:

         O:t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu:nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu:ko:rfu'ro'ge'p
         O:t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru:lt i'ro't nyu'z

 Quite readable, though a bit tricky to disambiguate mechanically:
remember, the " or : or ' may also serve as punctuation marks. (This
problem can be handled using Maxent's escaping capabilities, see
5.2.6.6.)

Warning! Don't get confused: in TeX (see 5.2.3.1) " denotes umlaut!

5.2.1.2 The 123 coding (also "numerical notation" or "Pro1sze1ky-code")

 Here's the same text:

         O2t hu3to3ha1zbo1l ke1rtu2nk szi1nhu1st
         a1rvi1ztu3ro3 tu2ko2rfu1ro1ge1p
         O2t sze1p szu3zla1ny o3ru2lt i1ro1t nyu1z

 The only one that's both short and unambiguous, though it takes some
getting used to. 1 stands for the stroke, 2 for the short umlaut, 3 for
the 'Hungarian' or long umlaut (double acute). Very easily converted to
other formats. (Also can be ambiguous, though with much smaller
probability. E.g. U2, CO2, , etc.)

5.2.1.3 Telegraphic style. For example,

         Oet huetoehaazbool keertuenk sziinhuust
         aarviiztueroe tuekoerfuuroogeep
         Oet szeep szuezlaany oeruelt iiroot nyuuz

 Avoid it like the plague because

1. It's ambiguous. (Think of Goethe, Oetker, Eoersi, Csooori, poeen.) 
2. Coding of o" & u" (o3 & u3) is not consistent:
   u3 = ue (fallback to u2), uue, uee, ueue
3. Absolutely not a pleasure to read.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.2 Fancy 8-bit character sets (extended ASCII)

 The following rollcall lists the most important character sets
supported by the majority of hardware and software, including the
accent conversion programs. The available Hungarian accented characters
are detailed for each set.

Notes: 

 Henceforth when referring to an accented character, the numerical
(Pro1sze1ki) notation will be used to maintain clarity.


5.2.2.1 PC-codepages

(*) PC-437: Hardware

 The basic hardware character set of PC-compatible systems. Since it
was supposed to contain many symbols (line drawing characters, some
Greek letters, etc.), and be general, it's pretty poor in terms of
accented characters. Missing Hungarian vowels: o3, u3 [substitute them
with o^ & u^], A1 [substitute it with A-circle], I1, O1, O3, U1, U3.

(*) CWI recommendation for Hungarian accents:

A standard initiative to replace the many house rules of character code
assignment for accents unavailable in PC-437. Codes are assigned as
follows:

o3->147 [o^], u3->150 [u^], A1->143, I1->141 [i`] or 140 [I^],
O1->149 [o`], O3->167, U1->151 [u`], U3->153 [y~]

(*) PC-850: Multilingual

Contains all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.
Note: ? means o, u, O or U.

(*) PC-852: Latin 2

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

(*) PC-860: Portuguese
(*) PC-863: Canadian-French
(*) PC-865: Nordic

These sets miss various Hungarian accents, esp. in upper case. Using
them for a Hungarian text makes absolutely no sense.

5.2.2.2 ISO character sets

 These character sets are specified by ISO standards. As far as ALL
(not only Hungarian) accented vowels concerned, ISO 8859/1, 2 & 9 is
equivalent to Windows Latin 1, 2 & 5 respectively.

(*) ISO 8859/1:
(*) ISO 8859/3:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

(*) ISO 8859/2:

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

 Fonts for iso-8859-2 (and some other) character sets can be found at
<ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/font/> for various operation systems, and at
<ftp://almos.vein.hu/ssa/kbd_es_font/> (mirrored at
<ftp://ftp.vma.bme.hu/pub/ssa/kbd_es_font/> and
<ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/ssa/kbd_es_font/>) mostly for Unix. There is
material for Hungarianizing the Linux (and possibly other Unix variant)
operation system at <ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/magyar/linux/>.

5.2.2.3 Others

The following character sets are supported by various laser printers. 
Roman-8 bears special importance as being the default character set of
many printers.

(*) Ventura International & Roman-8:
(*) MC Text:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.3 Text formatting languages

 The text formatting languages listed below, beyond their powerful text
formatting capabilities, also include the specification of [almost] all
the accented characters. These languages give an alternative way of
dealing with accents in 7-bit ASCII, especially if the software that
can display, print or convert these representations is available.
[Unlike notations in 5.2.1, the "raw" files of these languages are not
intended to be read by ordinary users.]

5.2.3.1 [La]TeX. 

 Invented by D. E. Knuth, TeX (pronounce as [tech]; 'X' denotes the
Greek letter 'chi'), and the macro collection based on it, LaTeX, are
today's most popular text formatting languages for document creation
and DTP.

To continue with the same example,

 \"{O}t h\H{u}t\H{o}h\'{a}zb\'{o}l k\'{e}rt\"{u}nk sz\'{\i}nh\'{u}st

 \'{a}rv\'{\i}zt\H{u}r\H{o} t\"{u}k\"{o}rf\'{u}r\'{o}g\'{e}p

 \"{O}t sz\'{e}p sz\H{u}zl\'{a}ny \H{o}r\"{u}lt \'{i}r\'{o}t ny\'{u}z

 This is meant to be printed with TeX or previewed as a dvi file.
 Wholly unambiguous, can be automatically converted to/from several
other formats (see 5.2.6). Also check the babel system for LaTeX with
the Hungarian specific option, available from FTP sites kth.se or
goya.dit.upm.es.

5.2.3.2 HTML (HyperText Markup Language)

 Unfortunately, the HTML-2 standard still does not contain notation for
Hungarumlaut (long umlaut, double acute). We use tilde or circumflex
instead. The preferred notation is o with tilde õ and u with
circumflex û. In the example above,

   Öt hûtõházból kértünk
   színhúst

   árvíztûrõ
   tükörfúrógép

   Öt szép szûzlány õrült
   írót nyúz

5.2.3.3 RTF (Rich Text Format)

 This standard is widespread among Microsoft word processors. For
non-ASCII characters it uses the following coding:

\'XX

where XX is the code of the given ISO 8859/2 (or PC-852 for Word for
DOS) character in hexadecimal.

5.2.3.4 Adobe PostScript

 It is a universal standard for describing any kind of graphics,
including fonts, but it is aimed at producing the final (typically
printed) copy of documents and not at word-processing per se. For a
starter document see <http://www.adobe.com/PS/PS-QA.html>; or
<ftp://wilma.cs.brown.edu/pub/comp.lang.postscript/FAQ.txt> or
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.answers/postscript/faq/part1-4>.
If one has the right accented fonts sets then, in theory, the output is
transferable between different machines - but often we run into hurdles
in practice.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.4 Microcomputer products: The word processors 

 Different word processors on different microcomputers use several
proprietary internal control sequences to handle accented characters,
as much as other symbols, and other text formatting commands. If you
want to transfer a document like this, you have to convert this [very
probably] binary file (8-bit ASCII with all kinds of binary crap) to
text (7-bit ASCII), see 5.2.5.1, unless your mailer can handle binary
directly, see 5.2.5.2. Make sure, however, that the recipient of your
document also possesses the same or equivalent word processor, or a
word processor supporting the format you used.

 It might happen that you want to use your document in another word
processing system, or a plain text editor. Today's word processors
offer conversion to a few formats, and also pure text with different
character sets (5.2.2). The resulting file, if necessary, can be
converted further to 7-bit ASCII as shown in 5.2.6. (The output is
already 7-bit ASCII in Microsoft's RTF, see 5.2.3.3.)

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.5 Switching binary to ASCII and vice versa

5.2.5.1 Uuencode & uudecode

 The easiest and most popular way of conversion between binary and
ASCII is the use of the twin sisters uuencode and uudecode. These
programs were created originally for Unix ('uu' stands for Unix to
Unix), but today they are implemented under most platforms.

 Uuencode makes an ASCII file out of a binary one, forming 61 character
long lines to avoid problems excessively long lines can cause in the
different mailer agents. This conversion increases the size of the file
by 40%.  Warning! Understand the really goofy usage of uuencode. The
parameters specify the local & remote BINARY filenames respectively.
The encoded ASCII result is sent to the standard output, it has to be
redirected into a file explicitly. (E.g. uuencode myface.gif myface.gif
> myface.uue )

 Uudecode converts the encoded ASCII file back to binary. It is smart:
using the "begin" and "end" tags placed in the encoded file, uudecode
is able to retrieve the encoded information automatically discarding
everything before and after the tags (headers, signatures, other junk),
even if it's inserted in the middle of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Its
usage is also simple: only the input filename has to be specified; the
original filename is restored from the "begin" tag. (E.g. uudecode
yourface.mal )

5.2.5.2 MIME support

 Many modern mailers support the MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail
Extensions) standard being able to transfer different file formats
beyond plain text. In this case the ASCII/binary conversion is the
mailer's internal affair. Some mailers make explicit calls to uuencode
and uudecode, some others (e.g. PINE) have different built in
conversion algorithms, trying to choose the most appropriate one for
the given binary file. (One type of MIME encoding substitutes an
unprintable character by its code in hexadecimal, preceded by an =
sign. That's why you often see them splattered around.) In either case,
however, the user is not responsible for the conversion, the mailer
takes care of it automatically.

5.2.5.3 Binhex

 BinHex files are 7-bit ASCII text files, typically used for encoding
Macintosh binaries. Conversion is done by various applications, see eg.
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.answers/macintosh/general-faq>.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.6 Translating between various accent formats

 From the HIX archives (see section 3) the following programs are
available.  The regular location is 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/info/programs/>;, though
you should also check <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/>; 
for updates. At the time of this writing the SENDDOC archive is 
extremely ill-organized and outdated in many parts, including, 
unfortunately, the 'new' directory.

 Warning! From abroad always access the HIX archives via 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/>;,
<gopher://hix.mit.edu/11/HIX/senddoc>,
<mailto:>, or 'finger '
(the latter only works for text, and you may have to redirect it to a
pager or file). The mirror at <gopher://hix.elte.hu> is updated only at
certain periods of time, also there is a limited bandwidth on the lines
connecting Hungary to the world (see section 4).

5.2.6.1 ekezettelenites

 Gabor Toth's UNIX shell script for deleting unwanted accents from mail
files.

5.2.6.2 etex

 Gabor Toth's shareware C source code for converting the marking or
numerical accent notation to TeX-format. It also claims to be capable
of hyphenation. Supports the UNIX platform.

5.2.6.3 hion

 Peter Verhas's C source code. It's an improved version of etex, as it
reduces the probability of incorrect hyphenation with some built-in
exception library. Hion is able to do the conversion between the
numerical (or, redefining each accent mark, also the marking) accent
notation & TeX-format, and remove accents if the input is an accent
notation. Read his documentation. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS,
UNIX. Available from <ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/magyar/TeX/hion.tar.gz>
or <ftp://ftp.digital.bme.hu/hion/>.

5.2.6.4 drtc.c

 Peter Verhas's freeware C source code for conversion between RTF (Rich
Text Format), character sets ISO 8859/2 (Latin 2), PC-852 (Latin 2)
and CWI. The program attempts to find out the inbound format
automatically. The outbound format can't be RTF. Supported platforms:
VMS, MS-DOS, & possibly UNIX.

5.2.6.5 hun.c

 Gabor Ligeti's freeware C source code for accent removal and
conversion between the marking & numerical accent notation, TeX-format
and PC-852 (Latin 2) codepage. Warning! Conversion capabilities are not
orthogonal, type hun /? for the supported conversions. No platform
limitations are indicated.

5.2.6.6 MAXENT.UUE_V6.0a

 Peter Csaszar's freeware C source code compressed with pkzip & encoded
with uuencode (see 5.2.5.1). Warning! As of 6/12/95, the HIX gopher's
/HIX/SENDDOC/info/programs directory still contains 'maxent.c', the
very old version V1.4 of Maxent. Don't touch this file, go for version
V6.0a, currently in <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/MAXENT.Z>;.

 Maxent provides 100% orthogonality in conversion between any of the
accent notations listed in 5.2.1 but telegraphic style, and any of the
character sets listed in 5.2.2, allowing multiple notations in the
input file. The domain of conversion includes 6 vowels and 6 accent
types, applying therefore a house rule extension of the marking and
numerical accent notations. (Hoping that this extension becomes widely
accepted, no longer remaining a house rule.) Language accent profiles
other than the default Hungarian can be selected. Further accent
services include accent notation escaping & de-escaping (see 5.2.1.1),
and flexible substitution of the o3 etc. characters.

 Beyond some little services, the rest of the major features provide
comprehensive retabulation strategies, full newline conversion
capabilities and script file execution (ideal for maintaining mail
folders after download).

 The help given by the program can be saved into a file by typing
maxent -h0 > maxent.hlp . Print this file for fancy bedtime reading.

 Maxent supports only the MS-DOS environment, and should be compiled by
a Borland C compiler. This is the sacrifice for the extensive services
provided.

5.2.6.7 ekezet.dot

 Via anonymous <ftp://bme-tel.ttt.bme.hu/pub/income/ekezetes/>, you can
find Kornel Umann's WinWord template capable of many kinds of
conversion.  Also find other goodies in the directory above.

5.2.6.8 hixiso

 Olivier Clary's Unix scripts for converting accented text appearing
on HIX are at <ftp://almos.vein.hu/ssa/kbd_es_font/hixiso.tar.gz>.

------------------------------

Subject:  5.3 Information sources pertaining to the rest of Central Europe

 This section is by no means to be comprehensive. For a big but dated
(1992) list see
<gopher://poniecki.berkeley.edu/00/archives/polish.archives/Network/EE-MotherLi
st>.

 Both OMRI and CET cover the general region in their news. See Section
1.1 and 1.2, respectively.

 To complement the HUNGARY list (see Section 1.7), at the same listserv
at Buffalo there exist the Middle European discussion list MIDEUR-L as
well as POLAND-L and SLOVAK-L. Send the usual command to
<mailto:> (or simply  on
BITNET):

      SUBSCRIBE listname-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname.

 On Usenet there is soc.culture.romanian, soc.culture.czecho-slovak,
soc.culture.polish, and the gatewayed bit.listserv.mideur-l and
bit.listserv.slovak-l; bit.listserv.hungary has been established, but
many sites do not have it. The surest way to receive everything is via
email. If you prefer using Usenet newsreaders you find HIX's HUNGARY
digests posted to soc.culture.magyar (which group does not seem to
suffer the poor propagation affecting some of the bit.listserv
groups).  Please notice that while the listserv groups are
bi-directionally gatewayed, i.e. posts to them get propagated back to
the original mailing list, the posts coming from HIX to
soc.culture.magyar are mere copies of the mailing list messages - do
not reply to the newgroups since your answer won't reach the email
readers (who constitute a likely large majority).

 Speaking of limitations of distribution be aware that some commercial
Internet connection providers (most blatantly American Online)
established their own groups with topics overlapping existing Usenet
hierarchy. The utility of these local groups is seriously limited since
they are, unlike the open real Usenet newsgroups such as those
mentioned above, unavailable to anyone but their own subscribers (i.e.
a small domestic fraction of all the Internet/Usenet users worldwide).
Please do not post to non-local groups saying how nice would be to use
these specialized forums - we can not. Use the newsgroup
soc.culture.magyar or the mailing lists!

 The Central European Regional Research Organization (CERRO) can be
joined at <mailto:> with the command
SUBSCRIBE CERRO-L Firstname Lastname.  This is a scholarly group that
deposits papers and the like in an electronic archive in Vienna.  The
archive is accessible with anonymous <ftp://wu-wien.ac.at>, or with
<gopher://gopher.wu-wien.ac.at>.

 The Eastern Europe Business Network ) is
primarily remarkable for its size (1700+ subscribers). Messages tend to
be brief bursts of announcements, questions and, unsurprisingly, calls
for or queries about business. The list is administered by Yale's Civic
Education Project (Chris Owen, <mailto:>). To
subscribe, send a message to the address
<mailto:> that has

             subscribe e-europe YourFirstName YourLastName
in its body.

 The repository for Voice of America material, accessible with
<gopher://gopher.voa.gov>, also contains some information and news
items relevant to the region.

 Check the NATO archive for goodies: <gopher://gopher.nato.int>.

 The Slovakia Document Store will answer all your questions about
Slovakia:  on the World Wide Web, <http://www.eunet.sk>;, via
<gopher://gopher.eunet.sk>, via <ftp://ftp.eunet.sk/slovakia/>, via
gophermail: send a message with Subject: HELP
<mailto:>.

------------------------------

Subject: 6.  CONTRIBUTORS TO THIS FAQ

(the order is alphabetical by last name)

Beke Tibor     <mailto:>           general layout, 2.1, 5.3
Bruner, Rick   <mailto:>     1.3
Csaszar Peter  <mailto:>   5.1, 5.2
Fabian Peter   <mailto:> 3.1, 4.1, 4.4
Fekete Zoli    <mailto:>           much of the rest
Hewes, Cameron <mailto:>      1.2
Hollo Kriszta  <mailto:>         4.2
Umann Kornel   <mailto:>        5.2
Varnum, Ken    <mailto:>       1.1

 If you have a question or remark regarding some specific section, you
may want to contact its author. The FAQ as such continues to be
maintained by Zoli Fekete <mailto:>. The keeper hereby
expresses the many thanks we all owe to every contributor - and above
all to Tibor Beke who brought about this cooperative effort, and took
upon consolidating the whole (with Peter Csaszar who took over the
next-to-last editing). Still, any errors are the responsibility of
Zoli - who'd like to hear all corrections, recommendations or just
comments readers may have!
 Acknowledgement is also due here to Jozsef Hollosi and Arpad Palotas,
for providing webspace to this FAQ on the HIX server and helping to
improve its homepage, respectively.

------------------------------

Subject: 7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

 One of these days ;-) there will be a guide here about how to handle
all the strange things that you may see embedded in this text; but in
the meantime, if you don't know yet what URLs are and are not reading a
copy thru a WWW browser that may show a selectable link: just do the
sensible thing and use email to access 'mailto:' addresses, ftp for
'ftp:' and telnet for 'telnet:'...

 Updated versions of this document will be in
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/posted>;
or <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq>. Notice
that the canonical Usenet archive <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu> is often
overloaded - if you can't get connected try one of the mirror sites (of
which a list by countries can be found in
<ftp://mirrors.aol.com/pub/rtfm/usenet/news.answers/news-answers/introduction>
that is also available thru the RTFM mail-server shown below) - eg.
<ftp://mirrors.aol.com/pub/rtfm/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq> in
the USA! You can also retrieve it via <mailto:>
with the command "send usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq" in the body
of the message, or via 'finger '.
 A brief extract of hungarian-faq, concentrating on the email services,
is also available now
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq-pointer>; or 
'finger '.
 A separate document on network service providers in Hungary
prepared independently by John Horvath <mailto:> is
available via email from its author or via
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/comm-providers>;.

 This hungarian-faq is expected to be updated at least every couple of
months, due to the rapid changes occuring on the net. If you are
reading a copy whose 'Last-modified:' date shown on top is older than
that then many parts may be out of date - in this case get the recent
one from the sources listed above, and/or try to convince the
administrator of the site keeping the old copy to freshen it. Please
notice that retrieving from the Usenet archives is likely a lot faster
than asking me personally (and most everything I can answer is already
in here)! If you do write me <mailto:>, then give a
descriptive 'Subject:' line - keep in mind that much of my incoming
email deemed unworthy by me is deleted unread in order to keep up with
the high volume I am receiving (most of it from various mailing
lists).  The best way to ensure catching my attention - and to allow
automatized pre-processing - is to start it with 'ZFIX:' (the name my
mail-handler answers to is Zophisticated Free Information eXchange, in
case you were wondering :-)).

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 
"For my assured failures and derelictions, I ask pardon beforehand of my
betters and my equals in my calling." 		- 	Rudyard Kipling
+ - Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 wrote:
: In article >, Nicolae Dobos  > wrote:

: >Not even when Transylvania was 
: >occupied by Hungary were there 2.5 million Hungarians. For your 
: >information the correct number is 900,000. If you don't believe me, you 
: >are welcome to go and count them yourself.

: And where should we count you with that Hungarian name, Dobos?

Amongst the brainwashed, I guess.
+ - Re: Looking For Hungarian Word Processor (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I missed the original query.  I use TeX (and LaTeX) which
have had the Hungarian diacritics in its character set since
at least 1982.  You can find out more about TeX by reading
the FAQ for comp.text.tex .

Also, check the info directories in /tex-archive on

ftp.shsu.edu
ftp.tex.ac.uk
ftp.dante.de

TeX's free and runs on just about every system around.

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg
    Email:	
    WWW:	<http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/>;
+ - Re: SCM: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCI (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Nicolae Dobos' statement that their are only 900,000 Hungarians in Rumania
is indicative of his stupidity!
+ - Re: **INTERNSHIP OPPORTUNITY IN DC** (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  (SARAH
) writes:
> The Center for Strategic and International Studies, a foreign policy 
> institution in Washington DC, is seeking qualified interns for its 
> Central European project for Fall 1995.
> 
> Knowledge of a Central European language (Polish, Czech, Slovak, 
> Hungarian, Slovene) preferred.
> 
> For more information please contact David Augustyn at 202-775-3166, or 
> at this e-mail address.

Addendum:  The internship unfortunately is unpaid.  However, please 
notify me if you are still interested.

David Augustyn
+ - Magyar-English dictionary. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I'm looking for a Magyar dictionary.  I would prefer electronic
text, but I'm having trouble tracking down any publication.

					Conrad.
+ - Driving in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Any advice on renting a car and driving in Hungary?
I've never done it but want to drive from Budapest to Sarratudvari. It's 
a small village and would require taking a train then a bus. Any 
tips/advice would be appreciated.
Julie Kirsh
+ - Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

RE:

   From:  (Janos Koplyay) On: 09/11/95  17:30
Subject: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED --
Reply-To: 

>Nicolae Dobos' statement that their are only 900,000 Hungarians in Rumania
>is indicative of his stupidity!

I couldn't agree more! He is either brainwashed by Romanian propaganda or
has never read any historical facts about Trianon and the published number
of Hungarians (Szekely s) stranded under Romanian dictatorship.

Nicolae Dobos' statement may not be indicative of his "stupidity" but it is
sure as hell indicative of his ignorance.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since Dobos called me "stupid," I thought it best to answer on his level.
+ - Penpals 12-13yr old (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi! My name is Matt and i want a penpal to write me E-Mail.
Im 13years old and I love to draw.you can write me E-Mail AT:
                                                        
+ - Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN F (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Nicolae Dobos' statement that their are only 900,000 Hungarians in Rumania
>is indicative of his stupidity!

I couldn't agree more! He is either brainwashed by Romanian propaganda or
has never read any historical facts about Trianon and the published number
of Hungarians (Szekely s) stranded under Romanian dictatorship.

Nicolae Dobos' statement may not be indicative of his "stupidity" but it is
sure as hell indicative of his ignorance.
+ - Re: SCM: Re: Looking For Hungarian Word Processor (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>I missed the original query.  I use TeX (and LaTeX) which
>have had the Hungarian diacritics in its character set since
>at least 1982.  .

I use "Claris" or "Microsoft Word" with the "ASCII Chart 4.2" which
produces accented Hungarian characters. ASCII works with just about any
English Word Processor. It gives you all Hungarian characters you need.

Dr.Janos B.v.Koplyay

+ - Message not deliverable (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Received: by ccmail from htmvax.tii.matav.hu
>From @HUEARN.sztaki.hu:
X-Envelope-From: @HUEARN.sztaki.hu:
Received: from HUGBOX.SZTAKI.HU by htmvax.tii.matav.hu (MX V4.1 VAX) with SMTP;
          Thu, 07 Sep 1995 15:19:18 MET_DST
Received: from HUEARN.sztaki.hu by HUGBOX.SZTAKI.HU (MX V4.1 VAX) with SMTP;
          Thu, 07 Sep 1995 07:18:02 gmt+2
Received: from HUEARN.SZTAKI.HU by HUEARN.sztaki.hu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with
          BSMTP id 6589; Thu, 07 Sep 95 07:16:35 CET
Received: from HUEARN.SZTAKI.HU (NJE origin ) by
          HUEARN.SZTAKI.HU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0199; Thu, 7 Sep
          1995 06:53:24 +0200
Reply-To: "HIX SCM" >
From: "HIX SCM" >
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 00:16:09 EST
X-Publisher: Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Subject: *** SCM *** #101
To: 

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue____________: *** SCM 101 ***
Date_____________: Thu Sep  7 00:16:03 EDT 1995
Publisher________: Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Disclaimer_______: Authors bear full responsibility for their articles.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Send-Articles-To_: >
Subscribe________: >   or >
Unsubscribe______: > or >
Help_____________: >
Supervisor_______: >
Interactive______: http://hix.mit.edu/ or finger 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Tartalomjegyzek:
----------------

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: Looking For Hungarian Word Processor ( 22 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: *** HUNGARY *** #419 ( 33 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: The Usual Suspects ( 20 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: re: WWW <--> Usenet ( 48 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: Karch Kiraly ( 23 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: Karch Kiraly ( 23 sor )

> Felado : Hollosi Jozsi
> Temakor: re: WWW <--> Usenet ( 30 sor )

> Felado : Charles Mikecz Vamossy -- NY Magyar Haz
> Temakor: Fine Hungarian Wines ( 18 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Washington, DC - Homage to Bartok - 50 years 09/15/95 ( 26 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: re. RE. hungarian suicide rates ( 12 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: The Usual Suspects ( 18 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Consultants ( 5 sor )

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: Looking For Hungarian Word Processor ( 22 sor )
> Idopont: Wed Sep  6 11:12:14 EDT 1995 SCM #101
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Frank Semetko ) wrote:
: I've been successful using macros and the codes from the character map in
: windows.   Works fine for occasional use, and it gives all the Hungarian
: "ekezets" except the long u.  I work from Word, and in this way you stay
: with the standard U.S. keyboard.  If you want more details let me know.H & G
: BROWN ) wrote: : Hi:
:
: : Does anyone know where I can download or order a Hungarian Word
: : Processor? Magyar/English preferred. Any assistance appreciated.
:
: : Thx
: : Howard
: : --
: : *********************************************
: :   |  St. Petersburg  Fla.
: : H & G Brown           |  Only I Know When
: : *********************************************
: --
: ========================================================================
:   Frank J. Semetko  Columbus Ohio USA:
:         OR   
: ========================================================================

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: *** HUNGARY *** #419 ( 33 sor )
> Idopont: Wed Sep  6 11:12:23 EDT 1995 SCM #101
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

: =======================================================
: Felado : 
: Temakor: Magazine article on winemaking in Hungary ( 6 sor )
: Idopont: Mon Sep  4 20:57:17 EDT 1995 HUNGARY #419
: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

: There is an article on Hungarian winemaking in the Sept. 8 issue of Awake!
: magazine. If you would like to read it, contact Jehovah's Witnesses in
: your area at the local Kingdom Hall or by telephone to receive a copy.
: Clay Shannon,
: 
: 

Huh! It sounds interesting. Do you think it is possible to get a copy
without risking any attempt of theirs to persuade me to join them in
their religion?

By the way 'wine-making' is rather looked upon in Hungary, because it
implies the manipulation of the wine. I know, because my father is a
wine *producer* himself.

My further question is: what is the local Kingdom Hall? Being in England
does it mean perhaps the hall of the Qeen's house (although she has more
than one...) Or does it refer to King Jesus' kingdom?

I also don't have the Jehovas' phone number. To compensate myself
I might buy a bottle of Chardonnay on my way home...

************************************************************************
*Hedvig Hegyi    EMAIL:         Tel +44-171-269-3348
Biomolecular Modelling Group, Imperial Cancer Research Fund
44 Lincoln's Inn Fields, London WC2A 3PX,England   FAX +44-171-269-3479
************************************************************************

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: The Usual Suspects ( 20 sor )
> Idopont: Wed Sep  6 11:12:29 EDT 1995 SCM #101
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I've just seen the movie with the above title in which, to my surprise,
a Hungarian mafia (mob) played a somewhat important role.

I thought this idea rather odd, considering that even the Hungarian
underworld is run by Ukrainian and Chechen gangsters.  But be that as it
may, at least in this movie the Hungarian talk sounded authentic,
obviously spoken by Hungarians.  I recall only one thing that sounded
strange to my ears.  In one of the opening scenes, the surviving
Hungarian gangster said something like "En tudom ot" insted of "En
ismerem ot."  This means "I know him" in English.  In other words, the
"know", in this case, was translated to Hungarian as "tudom",
not as "ismerem".  What I don't understand is, how come the Hungarian
actor or dubbing speaker did not notice this obvious error.  It's like
in German mixing up the words wissen and kennen.

Well, so much for my big beef tonight. ;-)  Otherwise the movie is quite
an unusual suspense, requiring a thorough concentration to understand
the finer points of the intricate plot.  I recommend it.

Joe Pannon

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: re: WWW <--> Usenet ( 48 sor )
> Idopont: Wed Sep  6 11:12:36 EDT 1995 SCM #101
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

On 5 Sep 1995, Jozsef Hollosi wrote:

> Kedves Gotthard:
>
> Azt latom, hogy a soc.culture.magyar irasat ugy kell erteni, hogy
> van egy pointer, ami a > cimre mutat
> (es amint az idezett leveled is mutatja, remekul mukodik). Bar egy pointert
> meg nem neveznek sajat irasi lehetosegnek, de hat ez egyeni dolog.

Kedves Jozsef,
A pointer - A University of Texas mail-to-News Gateway - valoban
remekul mukodik mint lathatod az elofizetoink altal visszakuldott
levelekbol ( Te is ezen keresztul arasztod el a soc.culture.magyar-t a
sajat publikacioiddal ). Ez barki szamara elerheto es joval kenyelmesebb
mint a HIX jelszoval mukodo www-to-usenet oldala. A magyar csoportok
jelenleg csak olvashatok es valasz kuldheto az eredeti postazonak - szinten
jelszo nelkul. A teljes www/mail/usenet interface a napokban elkeszul,
dolgozunk rajta.

Addig is, a legtobb hely szamara kozvetlenul is elerhetoek a magyar
csoportok a kovetkezo URL alatt HIX-tol es HunOR-tol fuggetlenul :-)

news://news.iif.hu/*
news://ludens.elte.hu/*

Ha vegeztunk a teljes www/mail/usenet interface felallitasaval, szivesen
elrhetove fogjuk tenni mindenki szamara a kodot. Tesszuk mindezt azert,
hogy az infomatika egyelore legszabadabb foruma meg veletlenul se essen
egy kisebb csoport iranyitasa ala - legyen az a tied vagy barki mase.

Egyebkent, tobb olyan magyar csoport van amely a WWW adta lehetosegeket
kezdi egyre jobban kihasznalni. A legtobb csoport azonban csak nehany
honapos multra tekint vissza, ellentetben a Hollosi I.E. tobb eves
multjaval. Jelenleg  amerikai egyetemek forrasait hasznalod, erre
barmely egyetemi csoportnak is lehetoseg van.
Mindezeknek leginkabb a magyar olvasokozonseg  latja hasznat. Vegre, HIX
is kezdi kovetni az elvonalban jarokat, lattam mar ti is  elkezdtetek
hasznalni nehany, mindenki szamara hozzaferheto szoftvert. A neha tobb
napos kesessel erkezo  Mozaik, manapsag mar csak egy-ket  nappal korabbi
hireket kozol, es a tobbi...

Tovabbi sok sikert kivanok neked es mindazoknak akik kedvet erezenek
kiprobalni az uj media adta lehetosegeket,
Gotthard

--
mailto:
http://mineral.umd.edu/~gotthard/

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: Karch Kiraly ( 23 sor )
> Idopont: Wed Sep  6 11:12:44 EDT 1995 SCM #101
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In article >,  ()
wrote:

> I often see Karch Kiraly play professional (beech) volley ball, but I
> don't recall the TV reports ever mentioning his Hungarian background.
>
> From his last name he could be n-th generation American and thus far
> removed from the old country.  However, his first name Karch suggests
> the Hungarian nickname for Karoly (or Charles, in English), which is
> Karcsi, pronounced as "Karchie".  So I suspect that's how he was called
> at home and it got abbreviated a bit in American usage.  That would mean
> probably first generation American.
>
> Does anybody know here about his background?
>
> Thanks,
> Joe Pannon

He lives in San Diego County. If I'm not wrong, his father was a water
polo coach and that's where vollyball comes in. I think Karch was born in
the USA and he's first generation American.

Steve Mihaly

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: Karch Kiraly ( 23 sor )
> Idopont: Wed Sep  6 11:12:56 EDT 1995 SCM #101
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In article >,  ()
wrote:

> I often see Karch Kiraly play professional (beech) volley ball, but I
> don't recall the TV reports ever mentioning his Hungarian background.
>
> From his last name he could be n-th generation American and thus far
> removed from the old country.  However, his first name Karch suggests
> the Hungarian nickname for Karoly (or Charles, in English), which is
> Karcsi, pronounced as "Karchie".  So I suspect that's how he was called
> at home and it got abbreviated a bit in American usage.  That would mean
> probably first generation American.
>
> Does anybody know here about his background?
>
> Thanks,
> Joe Pannon

He lives in Southern California. If I'm not wrong, his father was a water
polo coach and that's where vollyball comes in. I think Karch was born in
the USA and he's first generation American.

Steve Mihaly

> =======================================================
> Felado : Hollosi Jozsi
> E-mail : 
> Temakor: re: WWW <--> Usenet ( 30 sor )
> Idopont: Wed Sep  6 11:13:00 EDT 1995 SCM #101
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Kedves Gotthard:

En nehany egyszeru dolgot jegyeztem meg azzal a mondatoddal kapcsolatban, hogy

> HunOR-on van ketiranyu (olvasas + IRAS) WWW-kapu a magyar hun.*
  -------- === ..................................................
    (1)    (2)

nevezetesen, hogy a
(1) HunOR-on van "az en ertelmezesemben" azt jelenti, hogy tenyleg ott
    van, nem pedig csak egy pointer van ott valamire, ami tenylegesen mashol
    van (ez nem jelenti, hogy jobb, vagy rosszabb, csak azt, hogy ott van,
    vagy mashol van)

(2) a VAN "az en ertelmezesemben" azt jelenti, hogy van, nem pedig, azt,
    hogy a "napokban elkeszul, dolgozunk rajta", mint ahogy ujabb leveledben
    irod (ez nem azt jelenti, hogy az uj ne lehetne (majd) nagyon jo, sot
    jobb minden letezonel, csak azt, hogy jelenleg nincs)

A kozel 50 soros valaszodbol szamomra leginkabb az derult ki, hogy nem
azonosan ertelmezzuk a magyar nyelvet, igy a jovoben hasonlo felreertesek
elkerulese erdekeben megprobalok tartozkodni a kerdezoskodestol.

Sok sikert a jelszo-mentes (azaz feladocim-ellenorzes nelkuli) WWW->;Usenet
gatewayhez! (csak nehogy valami bugyuta alak elkezdjen rola
hamisitott leveleket bekuldeni  feladoval...)

Udvozlettel,
Jozsi


> =======================================================
> Felado : Charles Mikecz Vamossy -- NY Magyar Haz
> E-mail : 
> Temakor: Fine Hungarian Wines ( 18 sor )
> Idopont: Wed Sep  6 11:13:18 EDT 1995 SCM #101
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

There is an interesting article in the September 95 issue of Business
Central Europe (published by The Economist) about some individual quality
vintners who have emerged to meet the needs of private restaurants, wine
merchants and foreign interests in Hungary.

The article talks about Jozsef Bock, who has a vinyard in Villany and
makes the Bock Cuvee and the Sommelier Cuvee.  There are other vintners
as well who make fine wines, as opposed to the more common table wines we
are used to buying here in the US.

I wonder if anyone has information on this and other vintners.  Also, I
wonder if there are any publications (in Hungarian or English) that carry
articles about quality Hungarian wines.

I would be grateful receiving your e-mail or posting.

Charles Mikecz Vamossy


> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Washington, DC - Homage to Bartok - 50 years 09/15/95 ( 26 sor )
> Idopont: Wed Sep  6 17:12:24 EDT 1995 SCM #101
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  ***[Greetings from Hungarian-American HyperNews]***
  ***[       http://mineral.umd.edu/hahn/        ]***


Washington Music Ensemble Embassy Series

Friday, September 15th, 8pm
Embassy of the Republic of Hungary
3910 Shoemaker St., N.W.

Tunde Gaal, violinist
Eva Pierrou, pianist

Music of Bartok :
Rhapsody, Roumanian Folk Dances, Violin Concerto #1
and Kodaly:
Adagio and other piano works

Tickets $24.00
info/resv (202)625-2361

( As far as I understand, the Embassy is only the room
  provider. As of that, $24.00 might be a bit on the
  expensive side, comparing to other similar concerts in
  the DC area - taking into account the acustics of the
  Embassy's hall )

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: re. RE. hungarian suicide rates ( 12 sor )
> Idopont: Wed Sep  6 23:12:18 EDT 1995 SCM #101
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

If you think about it those hungarians who are in their sixties now were
born and grew up during wwii, were young during the most rabid years of
communism, lived through 1956, experienced abrief period of optimism in
the late seventies and early eighties and are finally finding out that
living is harder after the fall of communism than before. pensioners
after a whole life of struggle can hardly make a living. it's enough to
make anyone to want to commit suicide.  of course it still doesn't
explaine why it is higher than in other east european countries. could
it hate to do with the fact that hungarians have considered themselves
"better" than their eastern neighbours, believing to belong to the west
instead the east?
:)

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: The Usual Suspects ( 18 sor )
> Idopont: Wed Sep  6 23:12:24 EDT 1995 SCM #101
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 wrote:
: I've just seen the movie with the above title in which, to my surprise,
: a Hungarian mafia (mob) played a somewhat important role.

: I thought this idea rather odd, considering that even the Hungarian
: underworld is run by Ukrainian and Chechen gangsters.  But be that as it
: may, at least in this movie the Hungarian talk sounded authentic,
: obviously spoken by Hungarians.  I recall only one thing that sounded
: strange to my ears.  In one of the opening scenes, the surviving
: Joe Pannon
 I was suprised by that angle too. Adding that where was some turkish
 connection too ( The main boogie man was of a turkish extract). Is ther
 a hungarian community in Ankara? Considering that there were a foe
 of this turkish guy. This is kind of interesting cause I know that there
 was a refugee camp near Ankara, (with Hungarians in them, of course).
 Great movie !
 Cheers
 Andras

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Consultants ( 5 sor )
> Idopont: Wed Sep  6 23:12:39 EDT 1995 SCM #101
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Global Group is an international business consultancy. We are
interested in expanding our contacts in Hungary and are seeking people in
Hungary or with knowledge of Hungary who are interested in stimulating
more effective business cooperation between the U.S. and Hungary. Please
contact Dr. Chris Kuehl for more details.


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Reply-To: "HIX SCM" >
From: "HIX SCM" >
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 00:16:07 EST
X-Publisher: Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Subject: *** SCM *** #102
To: 

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue____________: *** SCM 102 ***
Date_____________: Fri Sep  8 00:16:03 EDT 1995
Publisher________: Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Disclaimer_______: Authors bear full responsibility for their articles.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Tartalomjegyzek:
----------------

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Greetings from the USA! ( 23 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: e-mail ( 2 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 45 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 315+  ( 32 sor )

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Greetings from the USA! ( 23 sor )
> Idopont: Thu Sep  7 11:12:17 EDT 1995 SCM #102
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Greetings from the USA!

Hello! Guten Tag! Salut! Hola! Ciao!

Are you looking for penpals and e-mailpals from abroad? To practice a
foreign language, exchange stamps and coins or learn about other cultures?

I run an international penpal and e-mailpal club in my spare time, called
Earth Friends.  :)

Earth Friends finds people of all ages penpals and e-mailpals in countries
all around the world.  :)

If you would like more information on having penpals and e-mailpals from
abroad, please respond to this message via e-mail by saying what country
you live in and what countries you would be most interested in finding
penpals and e-mailpals in.  :)

:) WORLD PEACE FOR ALL! :)

Please contact me at:  or 

Post Office Box 291413 ~ Port Orange FL 32129-1413 ~ USA

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: e-mail ( 2 sor )
> Idopont: Thu Sep  7 11:12:22 EDT 1995 SCM #102
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I am searching girls born in december to post by e-mail.
ado the poet

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 45 sor )
> Idopont: Thu Sep  7 17:12:19 EDT 1995 SCM #102
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>I've just seen the movie with the above title in which, to my surprise,
>a Hungarian mafia (mob) played a somewhat important role.

  Hungary never had a "maffia" inspite of being near to Italy for 1000 years

>In one of the opening scenes, the surviving
>Hungarian gangster said something like "En tudom ot" insted of "En
>ismerem ot."  This means "I know him" in English.  In other words, the
>"know", in this case, was translated to Hungarian as "tudom",
>not as "ismerem".  What I don't understand is, how come the Hungarian
>actor or dubbing speaker did not notice this obvious error.

The actor was obviously NOT Hungarian

>Joe Pannon
>

It is typical a Holywood goof misleading the  American viewers, just
like the invention of "Frankenstein" or "Count Dracula" in Transylvania
There was no such person (I am a count from Transylvania) but I am
repeatedly asked about Drakula's life story. Neither is there a Hungarian
maffia with a Holywood accent ("en tudom ot)".

But the film makers live in a strange virtual world where everything is
possible. I have seen a Western movie some years ago where some Indians
wore
wrist watches. And how about ZSa Zsa Gabor who was born in Austria and was
an Austrian even if Hungary was occupied by Austria at that time?
Austro-Hungary did not mean that Hungary was a willing participant, and Zsa
Zsa has never been a Hungarian.  We were occupied for over 50 years by the
Austrians since our freedom fight in 1848 was squasht by Austria with the
help of Russia.

When I first arrived in the U.S. I was asked three questions by somebody.
First, "do you play the gipsy music with violin?", "no" I said, "I play the
piano" His second question was  "do you ride on horsback without saddle?".
"no" I said, "I am a pilot flying airplanes" .His third question was  "do
you like the famous Hungarian actress Zsa Zsa Gabor?". I replied "no", "I
don't like Zsa Zsa Gabor". My friend then declaired  "You are certainly not
a Hungarian".

C'est la vie...

Janos Koplyay


> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 315+  ( 32 sor )
> Idopont: Thu Sep  7 23:12:12 EDT 1995 SCM #102
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Molecule One Scientific Research Institute >
ecrivait dans soc.culture.quebec :
Molecule One Scientific Research Institute >
wrote in soc.culture.quebec :

This group is called soc.culture.qc. That means it should talk about
Quebec's culture. This is also one of the rare french group of the
Net. This means that your posting should not have been done in English
or that it should have been related to it's orientation. Stop cross
posting!

-rdl

 (Jarek Zaremba ) wrote:
[...]
>Molecule One Scientific Research Institute would be interested
>in receiving email from pharmaceutical co.'s and health insurance
>firms, interested in participation with our proposed research.
>Molecule One Scientific Research Institute plans the operation of
>"ambient clinics and environments", on a 24 hour basis, for the
>public's benefit. It would be interesting for us to hear from
[...]

 ...................................................
    _/_/_/    _/_/_/     _/
   _/    _/  _/    _/   _/
  _/_/_/    _/     _/  _/
 _/   _/   _/     _/  _/
_/     _/ _/_/_/_/   _/_/_/_/ Roger-Daniel Laberge
                       

 ...................................................


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Reply-To: "HIX SCM" >
From: "HIX SCM" >
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 00:16:08 EST
X-Publisher: Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Subject: *** SCM *** #103
To: 

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue____________: *** SCM 103 ***
Date_____________: Sat Sep  9 00:16:03 EDT 1995
Publisher________: Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Disclaimer_______: Authors bear full responsibility for their articles.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Send-Articles-To_: >
Subscribe________: >   or >
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Help_____________: >
Supervisor_______: >
Interactive______: http://hix.mit.edu/ or finger 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Tartalomjegyzek:
----------------

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 25 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: IMF Generosity.  Or is it? ( 13 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 15 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: IMF Generosity.  Or is it? ( 46 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: **INTERNSHIP OPPORTUNITY IN DC** ( 9 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Eskimo Woman Feels Cold ( 39 sor )

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 25 sor )
> Idopont: Fri Sep  8 09:28:23 EDT 1995 SCM #103
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In article >,
Janos Koplyay > wrote:

>>What I don't understand is, how come the Hungarian
>>actor or dubbing speaker did not notice this obvious error.
>
>The actor was obviously NOT Hungarian

His pronounciation sounded authentic Hungarian, though come to think of
it, it may have been -- say -- a Romanian actor from Transylvania who
knew enough Hungarian to learn what he had to say in the movie, but
without complete comprehension.

Oh, and by that "maffia" label I only meant to implied some kind of
organized crime, not necessarily as extensive as the original, Sicilian
variety.  The Turkish connection sounded pretty contrived to me, too;  I
suspect the film makers, as most Americans, couldn't even find the two
countries on the map, but the connection must sound pretty good to that
type of audience.

>Zsa Zsa has never been a Hungarian.

That's news to me, for her accent is so typically Hungarian, not German!

Joe Pannon

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: IMF Generosity.  Or is it? ( 13 sor )
> Idopont: Fri Sep  8 09:28:38 EDT 1995 SCM #103
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>From the VOA report:

>HUNGARY HAS VERY LARGE BUDGET AND TRADE DEFICITS AND NEEDS I-M-F
>MONEY TO AVERT FINANCIAL DIFFICULTIES.  IF THE TALKS GO WELL,
>HUNGARY COULD BEGIN RECEIVING I-M-F CREDITS BEFORE THE END OF THE
>YEAR.

But isn't exactly these credits that dig Hungary into an ever-increasing
hole?  It seems to me that the last thing Hungary needs right now is
incurring more debt than already amassed.  If IMF really wanted to help,
it should write off some of that debt, not adding more to it.

Joe

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 15 sor )
> Idopont: Fri Sep  8 17:12:14 EDT 1995 SCM #103
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>... most Americans, couldn't even find the two countries on the map......

I agree, most Americans wouldn't find the two countries on the map.

>>Zsa Zsa has never been a Hungarian.
>
>That's news to me, for her accent is so typically Hungarian, not German!

Her accent may sound "so typically Hungarian" but when she speeks
occasionally Hungarian it does not sound Hungarian. She has a definite
foreign accent. Claiming to be Hungarian gave her sort of a mystic before
most Americans ever heard of Hungary (due to the 1956 revolution)

Janos


> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: IMF Generosity.  Or is it? ( 46 sor )
> Idopont: Fri Sep  8 17:12:19 EDT 1995 SCM #103
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>But isn't exactly these credits that dig Hungary into an ever-increasing
>hole?  It seems to me that the last thing Hungary needs right now is
>incurring more debt than already amassed.  If IMF really wanted to help,
>it should write off some of that debt, not adding more to it.
>
>Joe

Very well said! The IMF monetary "help" would end up in the current
Socialist Goverment's pocket and eventually the "ever increasing hole"
would become a Black Hole swallowing the Country for ever. From what I hear
and read about the Hungarian Administration, they put Hungary in a free
fall and unless somebody wakes up over there and vote them out of the
power.

They are the same individuals who were Communist interrogators during the
1956 revolution and who owned most of the real estate in the Communist era.

Gyula Horn, the current Prime Minister was recognized by many tortured
Hungarians as one of those "interrogators". His Cabinet is full with his
contemporaries.

It is really the prvious administration's fault that they were not locked up in
1990 by the first democratic goverment. Antal Gyula, the first democratic
Prime Minister gave a general amnesty and since they owned the real estate
and were directors in the industry, they kept everything and now are
selling it under the "privatization" banner.

Jozsef Antal died before the second election and Hungarians wanted to
forgive and forget with catastrific results when the Horn Administration
won the election in 1994 (they bought most of the vote and cheated at
will).I was home in 1994 during the election and interestingly NOBODY I
talked to admitted voting for the current Communist/Socialist
administration (except the communists).

The IFM money would go directly to Switzerland in their private account and
Hungary would be suffocated in the process. Hungary needs foreign aid and
modern technology to catch up wit 40 years of neglect and exploitation (a
friend of mine requested a telephon hook-up 37 years ago and he is still
waiting for it).

We are giving foreign aid to most everybody including Russia, why not
include Hungary in the list.

Janos

 ..

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: **INTERNSHIP OPPORTUNITY IN DC** ( 9 sor )
> Idopont: Fri Sep  8 17:12:24 EDT 1995 SCM #103
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Center for Strategic and International Studies, a foreign policy
institution in Washington DC, is seeking qualified interns for its
Central European project for Fall 1995.

Knowledge of a Central European language (Polish, Czech, Slovak,
Hungarian, Slovene) preferred.

For more information please contact David Augustyn at 202-775-3166, or
at this e-mail address.

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Eskimo Woman Feels Cold ( 39 sor )
> Idopont: Fri Sep  8 23:12:11 EDT 1995 SCM #103
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Eskimo Woman Feels Cold is a 1983 feature film by Janos Xantus which
for some reason has found its way into the 1995 Toronto International
Film Festival. (An unkind voice whispered to me later that a
Hungarian-Canadian sponsor had insisted on Hungarian content at this
year's festival. This includes a retro of the always disagreeable and
depressing Bela Tarr.) The story is of an unpleasant concert pianist
named Laci who is looking to get laid after a recital. He wants a
blonde, he says rudely to some fawning brunettes. Sure enough, a blonde
happens by, and is apparently unable to resist this talentless drunk.
It turns out Mari's married to a deaf-and-dumb zookeeper, Janos, who
rescued her when she was a teen runaway. And so an unlikely triangle
emerges. The film recounts the sordid unfolding of this affair between
unlikable people, and the beginning of Mari's singing career. It ends
with Laci being murdered by Janos (that's the first scene, so I'm not
giving away anything here.) The title seems to refer to the white
man's fable of Inuit men offering their women to their guests, though no
mention of this is made.

The director shows undeniable talent in eliciting natural, unconstructed
performances from his principals, and an eye for minor detail that lends
the film an air of gritty and squalid realism. One scene stands out:
starting with a scuffle between Laci and Janos, and ending with the
three jamming together, Janos on drums, Laci on piano, and Mari's voice.
And speaking of which, it's awful: flat, and off-key, and we are forced
to listen to her caterwauling "blues" numbers not once, but several
times. (The audience burst into spontaneous laughter during one of her
songs, which began "This will never end..")

Maybe there is some aspect of East European realism that escapes me
here, but I am truly baffled as to why this movie was made. This tale
of unpleasant marginal characters is unredeemed by any relevance to a
universal human condition, the relationships are abusive, not to
mention the sex, and I am honestly unable to see how any of these
characters could be attracted to any of the others. And especially the
unbearable singing is difficult to sit through. A truly tiresome film.
--
Balaji

To see the beauty of Laila, requires the eyes of Majnu.


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Reply-To: "HIX SCM" >
From: "HIX SCM" >
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 00:16:10 EST
X-Publisher: Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Subject: *** SCM *** #104
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Tartalomjegyzek:
----------------

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Titles back in use? ( 6 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: Titles back in use? ( 11 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED BY S.R.I./R.I.S. ( 413 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 48 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES ( 14 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 16 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: The Usual Suspects ( 6 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 24 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 20 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES ( 2 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Hungarian Drama Quest ( 5 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: prison sentences in various countries ( 23 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: The Usual Suspects ( 12 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Tolnanemedi or Vilmany Information ( 10 sor )

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Titles back in use? ( 6 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 11:12:14 EDT 1995 SCM #104
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I recently read somewhere that old aristocratic titles had regained some kind
of legal status in Hungary. Can somebody confirm this?

Thanks

Juliusz

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: Titles back in use? ( 11 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 11:12:20 EDT 1995 SCM #104
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In >  (Juliusz A. Dabrowski)
writes:
>
>I recently read somewhere that old aristocratic titles had regained
some kind
>of legal status in Hungary. Can somebody confirm this?

Speaking of titles, I understand I have one that includes in
part:Ko:peczi, Lo'fo", Dea'k. Anyone know anything of this one?

OD

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED BY S.R.I./R.I.S. ( 413 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 11:12:31 EDT 1995 SCM #104
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Auschwitz explained by SRI (Romanian Information Service / Serviciul
Roman de Informatii)

Myths and Facts



 Nearly everyone has heard of Auschwitz, the German wartime
concentration camp where many prisoners  most of them Jewish  were
reportedly exterminated, especially in gas chambers. Auschwitz is widely
regarded as the most terrible Nazi extermination center. The camp9s
horrific reputation cannot, however, be reconciled with the facts.

 Scholars Challenge Holocaust Story

 Astonishing as it may seem, more and more historians and engineers have
been challenging the widely accepted Auschwitz story. These
+revisionist; scholars do not dispute the fact that large numbers of
Jews were deported to the camp, or that many died there, particularly of
typhus and other diseases. But the compelling evidence they present
shows that Auschwitz was not an extermination center and that the story
of mass killings in +gas chambers; is a myth.

 The Auschwitz Camps

 The Auschwitz camp complex was set up in 1940 in what is now
south-central Poland. Large numbers of Jews were deported there between
1942 and mid-1944.

 The main camp was known as Auschwitz I. Birkenau, or Auschwitz II, was
supposedly the main extermination center, and Monowitz, or Auschwitz
III, was a large industrial center where gasoline was produced from
coal. In addition there were dozens of smaller satellite camps devoted
to the war economy.

 Four Million Victims?

 At the postwar Nuremberg Tribunal, the Allies charged that the Germans
exterminated four million people at Auschwitz. This figure, which was
invented by the Soviets, was uncritically accepted for many years. It
often appeared in major American newspapers and magazines, for example.
(note 1)

   Today no reputable historian, not even those who generally accept the
extermination story, believes this figure. Israeli Holocaust historian
Yehuda Bauer said in 1989 that it is time to finally acknowledge the
familiar four million figure is a deliberate myth. In July 1990 the
Auschwitz State Museum in Poland, along with Israel9s Yad Vashem
Holocaust Center, suddenly announced that altogether perhaps one million
people (both Jews and non-Jews) died there. Neither institution would
say how many of these people were killed, nor were any estimates given
of the numbers of
those supposedly gassed. (note 2) One prominent Holocaust historian,
Gerald Reitlinger, has estimated that perhaps 700,000 or so Jews
perished at Auschwitz. More recently, Holocaust historian Jean-Claude
Pressac has estimated that about 800,000 persons  of whom 630,000 were
Jewish  perished at Auschwitz. While even such lower figures are
incorrect, they show how the Auschwitz story has changed drastically
over the years. (note 3)

 Bizarre Tales

 At one time it was seriously claimed that Jews were systematically
electrocuted at Auschwitz. American newspapers, citing a Soviet
eyewitness report from liberated Auschwitz, told readers in February
1945 that the methodical Germans had killed Jews there using an
+electric conveyor belt on
which hundreds of persons could be electrocuted simultaneously [and]
then moved on into furnaces. They were burned almost instantly,
producing fertilizer for nearby cabbage fields.; (note 4)

 And at the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
charged that the Germans used a +newly invented; device to
instantaneously +vaporize; 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz +in such a way
that there was no trace left of them.; (note 5) No reputable historian
now accepts either of these fanciful tales.

 The Hvss Confession9

 A key Holocaust document is the +confession; of former Auschwitz
commandant Rudolf Hvss of April 5, 1946, which was submitted by the U.S.
prosecution at the main Nuremberg trial. (note 6)

 Although it is still widely cited as solid proof for the Auschwitz
extermination story, it is actually a false statement that was obtained
by torture.

 Many years after the war, British military intelligence sergeant
Bernard Clarke described how he and five other British soldiers tortured
the former commandant to obtain his +confession.; Hvss himself privately
explained his ordeal in these words: +Certainly, I signed a statement
that I killed two and half million Jews. I could just as well have said
that it was five million Jews. There are certain methods by which any
confession can be obtained, whether it is true or not.; (note 7)

 Even historians who generally accept the Holocaust extermination story
now acknowledge that many of the specific statements made in the Hvss
+affidavit; are simply not true. For one thing, no serious scholar now
claims that anything like two and a half or three million people
perished in Auschwitz.

 The Hvss +affidavit; further alleges that Jews were already being
exterminated by gas in the summer of 1941 at three other camps: Belzec,
Treblinka and Wolzek. The +Wolzek; camp mentioned by Hvss is a total
invention. No such camp existed, and the name is no longer mentioned in
Holocaust literature. Moreover, the story these days by those who
believe in the Holocaust legend is that gassings of Jews did not begin
at Auschwitz, Treblinka, or Belzec until sometime in 1942.

 No Documentary Evidence

 Many thousands of secret German documents dealing with Auschwitz were
confiscated after the war by the Allies. Not a single one refers to a
policy or program of extermination. In fact, the extermination story
cannot be reconciled with the documentary evidence.

 Many Jewish Inmates Unable to Work

 For example, it is often claimed that all Jews at Auschwitz who were
unable to work were immediately killed. Jews who were too old, young,
sick, or weak were supposedly gassed on arrival, and only those who
could be worked to death were temporarily kept alive.

 But the evidence shows that, in fact, a very high percentage of the
Jewish inmates were not able to work, and were nevertheless not killed.
For example, an internal German telex message dated Sept. 4, 1943, from
the chief of the Labor Allocation department of the SS Economic and
Administrative Main Office (WVHA), reported that of 25,000 Jewish
inmates in Auschwitz, only 3,581 were able to work, and that all of the
remaining Jewish inmates  some 21,500, or about 86 percent  were
unable to work. (note 8)

 This is also confirmed in a secret report dated April 5, 1944, on
+security measures in Auschwitz; by Oswald Pohl, head of the SS
concentration camp system, to SS chief Heinrich Himmler. Pohl reported
that there was a total of 67,000 inmates in the entire Auschwitz camp
complex, of whom 18,000 were hospitalized or disabled. In the Auschwitz
II camp (Birkenau), supposedly the main extermination center, there were
36,000 inmates, mostly female, of whom +approximately 15,000 are unable
to work.; (note 9)

 These two documents simply cannot be reconciled with the Auschwitz
extermination story.

 The evidence shows that Auschwitz-Birkenau was established primarily as
a camp for Jews who were not able to work, including the sick and
elderly, as well as for those who were temporarily awaiting assignment
to other camps. That9s the considered view of Dr. Arthur Butz of
Northwestern University, who also says that this was the reason for the
unusually high death rate
there. (note 10)

 Princeton University history professor Arno Mayer, who is Jewish,
acknowledges in a recent book about the +final solution; that more Jews
perished at Auschwitz as a result of typhus and other +natural; causes
than were executed. (note 11)

 Anne Frank

 Perhaps the best known Auschwitz inmate was Anne Frank, who is known
around the world for her famous diary. But few people know that
thousands of Jews, including Anne and her father, Otto Frank, +survived;
Auschwitz.

 The 15-year-old girl and her father were deported from the Netherlands
to Auschwitz in September 1944. Several weeks later, in the face of the
advancing Soviet army, Anne was evacuated along with many other Jews to
the Bergen-Belsen camp, where she died of typhus in March 1945.

 Her father came down with typhus in Auschwitz and was sent to the camp
hospital to recover. He was one of thousands of sick and feeble Jews who
were left behind when the Germans abandoned the camp in January 1945,
shortly before it was overrun by the Soviets. He died in Switzerland in
1980.

 If the German policy had been to kill Anne Frank and her father, they
would not have survived Auschwitz. Their fate, tragic though it was,
cannot be reconciled with the extermination story.

 Allied Propaganda

 The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay
statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any
evidence of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because
rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread.

 Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and
German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people
were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an
important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also
broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. (note 12)

 Survivor Testimony

 Former inmates have confirmed that they saw no evidence of
extermination at Auschwitz.

 An Austrian woman, Maria Vanherwaarden, testified about her camp
experiences in a Toronto District Court in March 1988. She was interned
in Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1942 for having sexual relations with a Polish
forced laborer. On the train trip to the camp, a Gypsy woman told her
and the others that they would all be gassed at Auschwitz.

 Upon arrival, Maria and the other women were ordered to undress and go
into a large concrete room without windows to take a shower. The
terrified women were sure that they were about to die. But then, instead
of gas, water came out of the shower heads.

 Auschwitz was no vacation center, Maria confirmed. She witnessed the
death of many fellow inmates by disease, particularly typhus, and quite
a few committed suicide. But she saw no evidence at all of mass
killings, gassings, or of any extermination program. (note 13)

 A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from
Hungary in July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and
cremated daily. She likewise testified after the war that she heard and
saw nothing of +gas chambers; during the time she was interned there.
She heard the gassing stories only later. (note 14)

 Inmates Released

 Auschwitz internees who had served their sentences were released and
returned to their home countries. If Auschwitz had actually been a top
secret extermination center, the Germans would certainly not have
released inmates who +knew; what was happening in the camp. (note 15)

 Himmler Orders Death Rate Reduced

 In response to the deaths of many inmates due to disease, especially
typhus, the German authorities responsible for the camps ordered firm
counter-measures.

 The head of the SS camp administration office sent a directive dated
Dec. 28, 1942, to Auschwitz and the other concentration camps. It
sharply criticized the high death rate of inmates due to disease, and
ordered that +camp physicians must use all means at their disposal to
significantly reduce the death rate in the various camps.; Furthermore,
it ordered:

     The camp doctors must supervise more often than in the past the
     nutrition of the prisoners and, in cooperation with the
     administration, submit improvement recommendations to the camp
     commandants ... The camp doctors are to see to it that the working
     conditions at the various labor places are improved as much as
     possible.
 Finally, the directive stressed that +the Reichsf|hrer SS [Heinrich
Himmler] has ordered that the death rate absolutely must be reduced.;
(note 16)

 German Camp Regulations

 Official German camp regulations make clear that Auschwitz was not an
extermination center. They ordered: (note 17)

     New arrivals in the camp are to be given a thorough medical
     examination, and if there is any doubt [about their health], they
     must be sent to quarantine for observation.

     Prisoners who report sick must be examined that same day by the
     camp physician. If necessary, the physician must transfer the
     prisoners to a hospital for professional treatment.

     The camp physician must regularly inspect the kitchen regarding
     the preparation of the food and the quality of the food supply.
     Any deficiencies that may arise must be reported to the camp
     commandant.

     Special care should be given in the treatment of accidents, in
     order not to impair the full productivity of the prisoners.

     Prisoners who are to be released or transfered must first be
     brought before the camp physician for medical examination.

 Telltale Aerial Photos

 Detailed aerial reconnaissance photographs taken of Auschwitz-Birkenau
on several random days in 1944 (during the height of the alleged
extermination period there) were made public by the CIA in 1979. These
photos show no trace of piles of corpses, smoking crematory chimneys or
masses of Jews awaiting death, things that have been repeatedly alleged,
and all of which would have been clearly visible if Auschwitz had been
the extermination center it is said to have been. (note 18)

 Absurd Cremation Claims

 Cremation specialists have confirmed that thousands of corpses could
not possibly have been cremated every day throughout the spring and
summer of 1944 at Auschwitz, as commonly alleged.

 For example, Mr. Ivan Lagace, manager of a large crematory in Calgary,
Canada, testified in court in April 1988 that the Auschwitz cremation
story is technically impossible. The allegation that 10,000 or even
20,000 corpses were burned every day at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944
in crematories and open pits is simply +preposterous; and +beyond the
realm of reality,; he declared under oath. (note 19)

 Gassing Expert Refutes Extermination Story

 America9s leading gas chamber expert, Boston engineer Fred A. Leuchter,
carefully examined the supposed +gas chambers; in Poland and concluded
that the Auschwitz gassing story is absurd and technically impossible.

 Leuchter is the foremost specialist on the design and installation of
gas chambers used in the United States to execute convicted criminals.
For example, he designed a gas chamber facility for the Missouri state
penitentiary.

 In February 1988 he carried out a detailed onsite examination of the
+gas chambers; at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek in Poland, which are
either still standing or only partially in ruins. In sworn testimony to
a Toronto court and in a technical report, Leuchter described every
aspect of his investigation.

 He concluded by emphatically declaring that the alleged gassing
facilities could not possibly have been used to kill people. Among other
things, he pointed out that the so-called +gas chambers; were not
properly sealed or vented to kill human beings without also killing
German camp personnel. (note 20)

 Dr. William B. Lindsey, a research chemist employed for 33 years by the
Dupont Corporation, likewise testified in a 1985 court case that the
Auschwitz gassing story is technically impossible. Based on a careful
on-site examination of the +gas chambers; at Auschwitz, Birkenau and
Majdanek, and on his years of experience, he declared: +I have come to
the conclusion that no one was willfully or purposefully killed with
Zyklon B [hydrocyanic acid gas] in this manner. I consider it absolutely
impossible.; (note 21)

Notes

  1. Nuremberg document 008-USSR. IMT blue series, Vol. 39, pp. 241,
261.;
     NC&A red series, vol. 1, p. 35.; C.L. Sulzberger, +Oswiecim
Killings
     Placed at 4,000,000,; New York Times, May 8, 1945, and, New York
Times,
     Jan. 31, 1986, p. A4.
  2. Y. Bauer, +Fighting the Distortions,; Jerusalem Post (Israel),
Sept.
     22, 1989; +Auschwitz Deaths Reduced to a Million,; Daily Telegraph
     (London), July 17, 1990; +Poland Reduces Auschwitz Death Toll
Estimate
     to 1 Million,; The Washington Times, July 17, 1990.
  3. G. Reitlinger, The Final Solution (1971); J.-C. Pressac, Le
Crimatoires
     d9Auschwitz: La Machinerie du meurtre de mass (Paris: CNRS, 1993).
On
     Pressac9s estimates, see: L9Express (France), Sept. 30, 1993, p.
33.
  4. Washington (DC) Daily News, Feb. 2, 1945, pp. 2, 35. (United Press
     dispatch from Moscow).
  5.  IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21, 1946).
  6. Nuremberg document 3868-PS (USA-819). IMT blue series, Vol. 33, pp.
     275-279.
  7. Rupert Butler, Legions of Death (England: 1983), pp. 235; R.
Faurisson,
     The Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1986-87, pp. 389-403.
  8. Archives of the Jewish Historical Institute of Warsaw, German
document
     No. 128, in: H. Eschwege, ed., Kennzeichen J (East Berlin: 1966),
p.
     264.
  9. Nuremberg document NO-021. NMT green series, Vol. 5. pp. 384-385.
 10. Arthur Butz, The Hoax of the Twentieth Century (Costa Mesa,
Calif.), p. 124.
 11. Arno Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The Final Solution9
in
     History (Pantheon, 1989), p. 365.
 12. Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT green series, Vol. 8, p. 606.
 13. Testimony in Toronto District Court, March 28, 1988. Toronto Star,
     March 29, 1988, p. A2.
 14. Sylvia Rothchild, ed., Voices from the Holocaust (New York: 1981),
pp.
     188-191.
 15. Walter Laqueur, The Terrible Secret (Boston: 1981), p. 169.
 16. Nuremberg document PS-2171, Annex 2. NC&A red series, Vol. 4, pp.
     833-834.
 17. +Rules and Regulations for the Concentration Camps.; Anthology,
Inhuman
     Medicine, Vol. 1, Part 1 (Warsaw: International Auschwitz
Committee,
     1970), pp. 149-151.; S. Paskuly, ed., Death Dealer: the Memoirs of
the
     SS Kommandant at Auschwitz (Buffalo: 1992), pp. 216-217.
 18. Dino A. Brugioni and Robert C. Poirier, The Holocaust Revisited
     (Washington, DC: Central Intelligence Agency, 1979).
 19. Canadian Jewish News (Toronto), April 14, 1988, p. 6.
 20. The Leuchter Report: An Engineering Report on the Alleged Execution
Gas
     Chambers at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek (Toronto: 1988).
Available
     for $17.00, postpaid, from the IHR.
 21. The Globe and Mail (Toronto), Feb. 12, 1985, p. M3

The Auschwitz extermination story originated as wartime propaganda. Now,
more than 40 years after the end of the Second World War, it is time to
take
another, more objective look at this highly polemicized chapter of
history.
The Auschwitz legend is the core of the Holocaust story. If hundreds of
thousands of Jews were not systematically killed there, as alleged, one
of
the great myths of our time collapses.

Artificially maintaining the hatreds and passions of the past prevents
genuine reconciliation and lasting peace. Correct information promotes
historical
awareness and international understanding. That is why the
reconciliation work of the
SRI (Serviciul Rombn de Informa]ii) is so important and deserves your
support.

Send all questions and comments to 

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 48 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 11:12:41 EDT 1995 SCM #104
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

t.
>
>Forgive me, but this is not very convincing because I know several
>Hungarians here who got stuck in this linguistic limbo: they no longer
>speak Hungarian without an accent and they still speak English with an
>accent.

Show me a pure bread Hungarian who has an accent in his/hers native
language and AI show you a pink elefant.I left hungary 46 years ago, speak
7 languages but have NO accent in my Hungarian according all of my friends
at home in Hungary.
Hungarians read a lot of Hungarian classical literature (if they keep up
with their culture), besides what accent do you suppose they picked up in a
truely unique language such as Hungarian? They might have forgotten
Hungarian words but could never speak with an "accent" in the language
itself.It is a pure impossibility.

>Well, so the name "Gabor" is just a stage name, just as Zsa Zsa (an
>obvious offshoot of "Zsuzsa)?  What about her sister, Eva, who also has
>a noticeable Hungarian accent?  Then there is Magda ...  That name is
>also coincidentally so Hungarian?

Zsuzsa is not one of the Hungarian first names (Zsuzsanna is), however, I
agree that Zsa-Zsa is a stage name. Eva is dead, and Magda could be
Austrian, German, or Hungarian name although you cannot judge a person's
birthplace from her given name.For example does Nicole or Michell imply
French origin ? I think not. Neither does Ferenc indicate Hungarian
birthplace.

>Anyway, why don't you tell us where you got your info about the
>Gabor sisters?

I got my information "from the horse's mouth". They never lived in Hungary
proper, their father was an Austrian jeweler, married an Austrian woman
(during the infamous Austro-Hungarian Monarchy) and after they father died
they immigrated from Vienna directly to Holywood before the Nazis would
catch up with them.

As an afterthought,I apologize if I came on strong. I did not want to
convince you of anything, I just reacted to the original article about the
funny-speaking Hungarians in the movie. Personally I don't care either way.
I don't know any Hungarians with an accent and Zsa-Zsa could be Esperanto
as far as I care.I am a mathematician (PhD) and Physical Science is my
hunting ground.

Have a good one

Janos

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES ( 14 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 11:12:48 EDT 1995 SCM #104
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The subject posting is vary familiar, it appears at regular intervals on
the Internet. It was posted originally by an anti-semitic organization in
Canada and use material publicly discredited by all sources. The scholars
and historians mentioned in posting are also discredited and marginal. (I
am an historian.)
For those interested: details of the allegations are posted in the
archives of one of the Usenet group's FAQ, so are the even more extensive
documentation refuting the posting and detailing the background of the
posting organization.
As for why this particular posting is repeated by a Romanian organization
on the Hungarian Forum, perhaps you are right: There is a bleak future for
our Hungaraian brothers and sisters in a fascist Romania.

Peter Aradi

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 16 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 11:12:53 EDT 1995 SCM #104
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>Not long ago I met with two girls whom I haven't seen for about six
>years, and I immediately noticed that they have a slight accent.
>The funny thing is, however, they told me the same thing!!  Namely,
>I speak hungarian with english accent.

If you and girls (you recently met) noticed your english accent and you
noticed the girl's english accent, how did you all know that you all had an
english accent? Your logic escapes me unless neither one of you had an
accent.

The Hungarian language I speak may be mixed with english expressions but
never the pronounciation because its uiqueness.  Believe what you want,
keep on having an english accent, however, I quit this pointless argument.
I honestly do not care which one of us is right or wrong

Good By

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: The Usual Suspects ( 6 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 11:12:58 EDT 1995 SCM #104
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:Well, so much for my big beef tonight. ;-)  Otherwise the movie is quite
:an unusual suspense, requiring a thorough concentration to understand
:the finer points of the intricate plot.  I recommend it.

I add: it must be seen several times before one starts to understand what is
really going on. In other words, it's a great plot.

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 24 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 11:13:11 EDT 1995 SCM #104
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In article >,
Janos Koplyay > wrote:
>
>Her accent may sound "so typically Hungarian" but when she speeks
>occasionally Hungarian it does not sound Hungarian. She has a definite
>foreign accent.

Forgive me, but this is not very convincing because I know several
Hungarians here who got stuck in this linguistic limbo: they no longer
speak Hungarian without an accent and they still speak English with an
accent.

> Claiming to be Hungarian gave her sort of a mystic before
>most Americans ever heard of Hungary (due to the 1956 revolution)

Well, so the name "Gabor" is just a stage name, just as Zsa Zsa (an
obvious offshoot of "Zsuzsa)?  What about her sister, Eva, who also has
a noticeable Hungarian accent?  Then there is Magda ...  That name is
also coincidentally so Hungarian?

Anyway, why don't you tell us where you got your info about the
Gabor sisters?

Joe

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 20 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 11:13:15 EDT 1995 SCM #104
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Janos Koplyay ) wrote:

: Show me a pure bread Hungarian who has an accent in his/hers native
: language and AI show you a pink elefant.I left hungary 46 years ago, speak
: 7 languages but have NO accent in my Hungarian according all of my friends
: at home in Hungary.
: Hungarians read a lot of Hungarian classical literature (if they keep up
: with their culture), besides what accent do you suppose they picked up in a
: truely unique language such as Hungarian? They might have forgotten
: Hungarian words but could never speak with an "accent" in the language
: itself.It is a pure impossibility.

You're dead wrong.   People who don't speak Hungarian regularly
may use english intonation in place of hungarian intonation.
As for others not detecting 'accent' on your speak -- slow changes
are not apparent if you meet with those people more or less regularly.
Not long ago I met with two girls whom I haven't seen for about six
years, and I immediately noticed that they have a slight accent.
The funny thing is, however, they told me the same thing!!  Namely,
I speak hungarian with english accent.

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES ( 2 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 11:13:20 EDT 1995 SCM #104
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

If this post really originated from S.R.I./R.I.S., the Rumanian filth is
getting ready to exterminate 2.5 million Hungarians.

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Hungarian Drama Quest ( 5 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 17:12:13 EDT 1995 SCM #104
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

: Please help me if you can--I am researching the magyar playwright
: Ferenc Molnar.  what is his current stature in Hungary?

: Please e-mail any responses.  Thank you!
: Dr. Thomas F. Connolly )

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: prison sentences in various countries ( 23 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 17:12:18 EDT 1995 SCM #104
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I am compiling comparisons of prison sentences in various parts of the world
for various crimes and appeal to you for help. Please e-mail

1) the average sentence a first time offender would get for these crimes
2) what a repeat offender would get
2) How much of the sentence must be served in prison before
   the offender can be release for good behavior

capital murder (deliberate and committed while committing rape,
                 robbery, arson etc.)
murder (deliberate but not capital murder)
manslaughter (accidental killing)
robbery by threat
aggrevated robbery (causing injury during the robbery)
burglary of a residence
car theft
car burglary

Oktavia Carstarphen       e-mail: 
Attorney at Law                   
P.O.Box 2568
Galveston, Texas
USA

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: The Usual Suspects ( 12 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 17:12:24 EDT 1995 SCM #104
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In article >,
Paul Nevai > wrote:
>
>I add: it must be seen several times before one starts to understand what is
>really going on. In other words, it's a great plot.

Yes, I intend to see it again, for that exact reason.  Or I'll wait till
it's out in video.

BTW, I hardly recognized any of the actors in the movie.  Did you?

Joe

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Tolnanemedi or Vilmany Information ( 10 sor )
> Idopont: Sat Sep  9 23:12:10 EDT 1995 SCM #104
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hello, I am of Hungarian/Slovak ancestry and will be making a "roots"
journey to see relatives in Kosice, Slovakia and to see if I can find some
relatives of my dad's in Tolnanemedi where he was born. His mother's
family was from there and they immigrated to Cleveland in the 1920s. My
grandmother's surname was Toth and my grandfather's was Antal. My dad
doesn't remember where his father's family is from. Any information about
them or the town of Tolnanemedi is greatly appreciated. Also, my mother's
mother was from a town called Vilmany, surname Balasz. Any info there
would help too.
Dash Antel (Antal)


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+ - Message not deliverable (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

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Subject: *** SCM *** #105
To: 

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue____________: *** SCM 105 ***
Date_____________: Mon Sep 11 00:16:04 EDT 1995
Publisher________: Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Disclaimer_______: Authors bear full responsibility for their articles.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Tartalomjegyzek:
----------------

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES ( 18 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES ( 18 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 24 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES ( 18 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: DAM(n), those talks! ( 19 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Miert? ( 12 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: London UK: Hungarian teacher wanted ( 5 sor )

> Felado : 
> Temakor: Ki vidi meg a vajdasagi magyarokat?  ( 49 sor )

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES ( 18 sor )
> Idopont: Sun Sep 10 11:12:13 EDT 1995 SCM #105
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Why must you assume that these are Romanian Fascist lies? Couldn't these
be Romanian Communist lies! And what if they are not lies at all? Did
you know that the person who masterminded the world's largest and first
holocaust (the one in which over 20 million ukrainians have been
exterminated) was a JEW; Lazar Moishe Kaganovich! If you don't believe
me read ''The Wolf of the Kremlin'' written by Kaganovich's nephew
Stuart Kahan or ask historian Peter Aradi to shed more light on it! One
doesn't have to be a Fascist to engineer holocausts... or do they!
Should I assume that you to are a Fascist because you are lying about
the number of Hungarians in Romania. Not even when Transylvania was
occupied by Hungary were there 2.5 million Hungarians. For your
information the correct number is 900,000. If you don't believe me, you
are welcome to go and count them yourself. Today's Fascism in Romania is
nothing but a communist diversion to serve the propaganda of their new
masters in America. Fascism is dead, Communism is not! So stop being
stupid...

Nicolae Dobos

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES ( 18 sor )
> Idopont: Sun Sep 10 11:12:23 EDT 1995 SCM #105
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Why must you assume that these are Romanian Fascist lies? Couldn't these
be Romanian Communist lies! And what if they are not lies at all? Did
you know that the person who masterminded the world's largest and first
holocaust (the one in which over 20 million ukrainians have been
exterminated) was a JEW; Lazar Moishe Kaganovich! If you don't believe
me read ''The Wolf of the Kremlin'' written by Kaganovich's nephew
Stuart Kahan or ask historian Peter Aradi to shed more light on it! One
doesn't have to be a Fascist to engineer holocausts... or do they!
Should I assume that you to are a Fascist because you are lying about
the number of Hungarians in Romania. Not even when Transylvania was
occupied by Hungary were there 2.5 million Hungarians. For your
information the correct number is 900,000. If you don't believe me, you
are welcome to go and count them yourself. Today's Fascism in Romania is
nothing but a communist diversion to serve the propaganda of their new
masters in America. Fascism is dead, Communism is not! So stop being
stupid...

Nicolae Dobos

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: Re: SCM: The Usual Suspects ( 24 sor )
> Idopont: Sun Sep 10 11:12:28 EDT 1995 SCM #105
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In article >,
Janos Koplyay > wrote:

>If you and girls (you recently met) noticed your english accent and you
>noticed the girl's english accent, how did you all know that you all had an
>english accent? Your logic escapes me unless neither one of you had an
>accent.

I don't see any problem here.  On this basis, I, who speak English with
a noticeable accent would not be expected to notice a much less noticeable
accent, or dialect in others.  But I do.
>
>The Hungarian language I speak may be mixed with english expressions but
>never the pronounciation because its uiqueness.

Well, you are not the best judge judging your own accent.  Frankly, I
think you are probably deluding yourself.

>Believe what you want,
>keep on having an english accent, however, I quit this pointless argument.

It's probably for the better.
>
Joe

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Re: AUSCHWITZ EXPLAINED -- RUMANIAN FASCIST LIES ( 18 sor )
> Idopont: Sun Sep 10 11:12:33 EDT 1995 SCM #105
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Why must you assume that these are Romanian Fascist lies? Couldn't these
be Romanian Communist lies! And what if they are not lies at all? Did
you know that the person who masterminded the world's largest and first
holocaust (the one in which over 20 million ukrainians have been
exterminated) was a JEW; Lazar Moishe Kaganovich! If you don't believe
me read ''The Wolf of the Kremlin'' written by Kaganovich's nephew
Stuart Kahan or ask historian Peter Aradi to shed more light on it! One
doesn't have to be a Fascist to engineer holocausts... or do they!
Should I assume that you to are a Fascist because you are lying about
the number of Hungarians in Romania. Not even when Transylvania was
occupied by Hungary were there 2.5 million Hungarians. For your
information the correct number is 900,000. If you don't believe me, you
are welcome to go and count them yourself. Today's Fascism in Romania is
nothing but a communist diversion to serve the propaganda of their new
masters in America. Fascism is dead, Communism is not! So stop being
stupid...

Nicolae Dobos

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: DAM(n), those talks! ( 19 sor )
> Idopont: Sun Sep 10 11:12:37 EDT 1995 SCM #105
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>From the news:

>HUNGARY, SLOVAKIA TO DISCUSS GABCIKOVO DAM. A spokesman for the
>Hungarian Ministry of Foreign Affairs on 5 September told journalists in
>Budapest that experts from Hungary and Slovakia will meet "in the coming
>days" to discuss the Gabcikovo dam on the Danube River, international
>media reported. In 1989, Hungary abandoned the Slovak-Hungarian project,
>launched in 1977, claiming it was ecologically harmful. Slovakia went
>ahead with its part of the project, while Hungary took its case to the
>International Court of Justice in the Hague in 1993. Hungarian Prime
>Minister Gyula Horn and his Slovak counterpart, Vladimir Meciar,
>recently agreed to try to settle the dispute over the dam before the
>court reaches a verdict.

Do these talks indicate that Hungarian government is not confident in
the outcome of the court decision?  Otherwise it doesn't make sense to
me.  I can't think environmentalists like it, either.

Joe

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Miert? ( 12 sor )
> Idopont: Sun Sep 10 17:12:11 EDT 1995 SCM #105
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

----------


Miert

Miert ojan magasak a fak,
Es miert kek az eg,
Miert vannak allatkak,
Es mire valo a szek.


     Ago

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: London UK: Hungarian teacher wanted ( 5 sor )
> Idopont: Sun Sep 10 17:12:17 EDT 1995 SCM #105
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I'm seeking someone to give one-to-one teaching of Hungarian in SW
London. Please email response. Thanks!

--
***** Jenny *****

> =======================================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: Ki vidi meg a vajdasagi magyarokat?  ( 49 sor )
> Idopont: Sun Sep 10 23:12:10 EDT 1995 SCM #105
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Csapsdy Miklss nymlt levele - Horn Gyula miniszterelnvkhvz

1995. augusztus 17., cs|tvrtvk -

Tisztelt Miniszterelnvk Zr!


Bizonyos vagyok benne, hogy Vn, mint a magyar kormany feje,
szamos riszletekbe menu pontos informacisval rendelkezik a
vajdasagi magyar nemzeti kvzvssiget
fenyegetu minden korabbi is jelenlegi veszilyrul, akcisrsl,
mgy az ottani magyarsagot veszilyeztetu helyzetrul, a
menek|ltaradatrsl, az etnikai tisztogatasrsl, a letelepmtisekrul
is, melyek a dilszlav haborz mai szakaszaban, mas rigebbi kelet{ okokkal
egy|tt tinylegesen fvlvetik az ottani fegyveres incidensek
lehetusigit is. Magyarorszag veszilyeztetettsigirul
felesleges szslnom.
Mindennek ellenire a Magyar Kvztarsasag Kormanya a mai napig
adssa nemcsak a magyarsag fenyegetett kvzvssiginek,
de vnmaganak az orszagnak is a nemzetek kvzvssiginek is, hiszen a
Vajdasagban tvrtintekkel kapcsolatban ez eddig kormanynyilatkozat nem latott na
pvilagot. A vilag nem
ismeri a magyar kormany allaspontjat, nem ismeri viszonyat a
bekvvetkezett eseminyekkel kapcsolatban.
Tisztelt Miniszerelnvk Zr!
Mint az Orszaggy{lis K|l|gyi Bizottsaganak tagja, felkirem Vnt,
hogy Vn is kormanya haladiktalanul kelljen a vajdasagi magyarsag
videlmire, megtive vigre a valsban sz|ksiges politikai-
diplomaciai lipiseket. Mindazok a kvzvetlen jelzisek is hmradasok, eljutottak h
ozzam, csupan riszei - de
megerusmtu, hangszlyos elemei azon informacisk vsszessiginek,
melyekkel Vn is rendelkezik. Ippen ezirt
fordulok Vnhvz,a legnagyobb nyomatikkal kirve mindazt, amit
ilyen helyzetben egy gondoskods anyaorszag tisztessiges kormanya
honfitarsai videlmiben meg kell, hogy tegyen.
Kirem, hogy a kormany haladiktalanul adjon ki nyilatkozatot a
vajdasagi magyarsag videlmiben.
Tisztelettel kvsz|nvm.

dr. Csapsdy Miklss
Magyar Demokrata Fsrum
az Orszaggz{lis K|l|gyi Bizottsaganak tagja

Posted by:
Hungarian Human Rights Monitor
Magyar Emberi Jogok Monitora
113 Waniska Ave, Toronto, Ontario, M8Y 1R5,
Tel/Fax:(416)259-0877 Email: 


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