In ,news:> Joe writes :

>In article >, Tudor  > wrote:
>>
>>  Recent research has proven that the word was used beginning with
>>the 5th century b.Ch. in Altai- Ural area. It was pronounced lhkh dshoo
>>and at first was denominating the local sword dancer.
>
>Are you sure it wasn't belly dancer?  ;-)
>
>Joe

:-)))

There we go, back to the turkish babes...

td

In article >, Tudor  > wrote:
>>>  Recent research has proven that the word was used beginning with
>>>the 5th century b.Ch. in Altai- Ural area. It was pronounced lhkh dshoo
>>>and at first was denominating the local sword dancer.
>>
>>Are you sure it wasn't belly dancer?  ;-)
>
>There we go, back to the turkish babes...

Maybe she was a Babe-ylonian?

Gabor

 () writes:

>mesuge?  Mar neha a frasz kerulget amikor ismet latom valahol leirva,
>s gozom sincs mit jelent.  S.O.S.!!!

Bolond, o"ru~lt, juddisu~l.

Anto'ny Gyuri

-- 
II*I am looking for a painter named ERNO TOTH.
I need his fax number or e-mail address.
Can you help me?
I love his work.
GP.soglio

Alanis Morissette > wrote:

>Whocrass wrote:
>> 
>> Gregg Black ) wrote:
>> >
>> > Everybody   Fuck Otto J. Makela (Everybody   Fuck Otto J. Makela)
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >Everybody   Fuck Otto J. Makela
>> > >Everybody   Fuck Otto J. Makela
>> >> ( Zillion repetiyions skipped )
>> >
>> > I'd rather not.
>> >
>> > "Reading about jazz is like kissing your sister"
>> >                      -a librarian somewhere USAWE DON'T CARE TO SO SHUT TH
E FUCK
>> UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>Who is Otto J. Makela?

If You don't Know, then is likely that You don't fuck Otto.
*********************************
E-Mail 
       
**********************************

T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>
>Nem követed a HIX-en folyo dolgokat. NPA-t pont a napokban
>jelentettek fel a munkahelyen hixelo liberalis 'vitapartnerei'.

Pontosan!  S csak ket valasztast hagytak meg neki: vagy maga mond fel,
vagy kirugjak.

A cikkebol eleg nyilvanvalo az is, hogy kinek koszonheti ezt a remek
valasztasi lehetoseget.

PJ

In article >,  > wrote:
>
>Az en Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary-m a kovetkezokepp 
>definialja:
>
>"meshuga or meshugge also meshugah or meshuggah: adj. \m@-'shug-@\
>[Yiddish or Heb; Yiddish meshuge, fr. Heb meshugga](1892):CRAZY, FOOLISH"

Koszonet, Vera.  Gondolom ez egy uj jovevenyszo lehet a magyarban, mert
en csak mostanaban tudok rola, a HIX cikkeibol.  S raadasul eleg
gyakran fordul elo ott.  Azert nehez elhinni, hogy ne lenne jo magyar szo 
is a mesuge helyett, ha csak nem valami olyan nuanszot fejez ki a szo, ami 
nekem nem nyilvanvalo.

Pannon J.

Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:
>
>Come on Joe, that's at least two! The previous one was chicks, now it's turkey
 
>babes!  :-)

It's OK, I myself tried to pitch in with my "belly dancer" comment.

Joe

I notice you are a being of high intelligence!!!

Hi,

The only name that comes to mind is "Deutch" which means German. I had
relatives
whos name originally was Deutch, but later the name was changed to a
Hungarian
sounding last name.

Greetings,
Marina

In article >,
    () wrote:
>Mivel MO is, az USA is ma demokratikus berendezkedesu orszagnak 
vallja
>magat, nem latom helyet ilyen pitianer kulonbsegtevesnek.

Micsoda???
Hogy Magyarorszagrol vagy az USA-rol beszelunk az pitianer 
kulonbsegteves? 
Ember ! Szarok ra, hogy mi van az USA-ban, vilagos?
EZ ITT: S.C.M (M stands for Magyar!)


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

Fantasztikus ez a keveres! Mindent mindennel. A feljelentot a 
fonokkel, Magyarorszagot az USA-val, gyerunk!

Ha vitapartnerunknek igaza latszik lenni valamiben, mondjuk azt, 
hogy viszont mas esetben, mashol, es mas dolog mashogy esett.
Ez a fajta argumentacio egyszeruen fold buta (es most finom 
voltam)

Melyik az az orszag ahol nincsenek hulyek?
Melyik az az orszag ahol nem lehet feljelentest tenni?
Melyik az az orszag ahol nincsenek feljelentok?

Nem ott kezdodik a baj veletlenul amikor a feljelentest 
meghallgatjak, es avval aki meghallgatja?

Pannon, Kocsis es a tobbi egylogikaju!
Most lehet valaszolni: 
"Ugandaban egy elmebetegnek elvettek a ceruzajat es ez a 
magyar sajtoszabadsag vege, a vak is lathatja"

Csak tessek, tessek...


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

T. Kocsis wrote:

> In article > g, 
> writes:
> >But note the initial consonants [kl], usual both in German and in
> >Romanian (as in any Indoeuropean language), but not typical in Hungarian.
> 
> Well,  the number of Hungarian villages and towns with this
> intitial is above 2200. This alone refutes your dubious preli-
> minary condition but I checked my dictionaries as well:
[...]
> I am afraid Hungarian language has more k initials than the
> German.

 Did you noticed the final "s" in the word "consonants"?! It's the sign
of plural in English. In fact, there is a group of two consonants "k"
followed by "l" which was brought into discussion and not only the conso-
nant "k".
 
 Cheers,
						Marius Iacomi

In article >,
   T. Kocsis > wrote:
>...Ha nem
>tudnad, azon a listan szerepel egy nagyon sikeres libi 
feljelento (nev,
>cim mellekelve), aki egy jolelhelyezett feljelento levellel  
orosz
>nacionalista vitapartnerenek elintezte jolfizeteto allasa 
elveszteset.
>Hat itt tartunk. Moralisan mar megint a Birodalomhoz tartozunk.
>
>Vedd csak a munder becsuletet, Peter.
>
>Tamas

Koszonom Tamas, 
pontos peldajat adtad annak amit nagyon veszelyes tevedesnek 
tartok, es azt hittem sikerult mar vegre elmagyarazni.

NEM A FELJELENTO "INTEZTE EL", HANEM AKI A FELJELENTEST KAPTA ES 
JOGOSNAK TALALTA!
Nem az a baj egy rendszerben, hogy vannak feljelentok, hanem, ha 
a feljelenteseket a renszer felhasznalja indokolatlan estekben 
is.
Minek ezt magyarazni? Nem hiszem, hogy barkinek akinek 
erintoleges kepe is van a "demokracia" nevu fantomrol ezt kellene 
magyarazni a vegtelensegig.

Nem a munderrol van itt szo, hanem ha mar agysejtekkel vert meg 
az Ur, akar hasznalhatnank is oket, nem?

Kedvencem volt, hogy honvedsegi szolgalatom idejen mindig en 
voltam az "ok". Rosszul leptem a sorban, es "ezert" parancsnokunk 
pl. felmosatta velunk lakreszunket.
A vegen majdnem megvertek. Kerdem en: ki volt az ok, aki hibazott 
vagy aki kollektive (vagy ha tetszik igazsagtalanul) buntetett?

Vagy vegyunk egy jobban ertheto peldat kedves egylogikaju 
barataim (bar mar nem adnam tobbre 0.723 nal).
Amikor meg a komcsiknak magasan sutott a nap Mo.-on, barki 
feljelenthette a szomszedjat, es az sokszor minden tovabbi 
diszkusszio nelkul eltunt.
Ki volt a hibas, a feljelento, vagy a rendszer aki az illetot 
eltuntette?

Ha most arrol akarunk meseket irni, hogy az emberiseg atlagos 
moralis minosege renkivul alacsony, akkor csak a legunalmasabb 
trivialitasokkal vesztegetjuk egymas idejet.


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

Hadrian Daicoviciu, "The Ethnogenesis of Romanians," 52 pp.,
$6.00 (postage included). It could be obtained from Publication
Department, Center for Transylvanian Studies, Oficiul postal nr. 1,
Casuta postala 349, 3400 Cluj-Napoca, Romania.

Ioan-Aurel Pop, "The Ethno-Confessional Structure of Medieval
Transylvania and Hungary," 48 pp. $6.00 (postage included). It
could be obtained from Publication Department, Center for Transylvanian
Studies.

Calin Felezeu and Ioan Lumperdean, "Vlahii din nordul Peninsulei
Balcanice. Schita istorica," Cluj-Napoca, 1995, 72 pp., $8.00 (postage
included). It could be obtained from Publication Department, Center for
Transylvanian Studies.

Ioan-Aurel Pop, "Romanii si maghiarii in secolele IX-XIV. Geneza
statului medieval in Transilvania," Cluj-Napoca, 1996, 246 pp.
It could be obtained from Publication Department, Center for
Transylvanian Studies. The work presents much information about
that period using primary sources. It is a must for serious
researchers. The author is an associate professor in Cluj-Napoca at
the "Babes-Bolyai" University, Department of Medieval History and 
Historiography.

Jean Nouzille, "Transylvania. An Area of Contacts and Conflicts,"
Editura Enciclopedica, Bucharest, 1996, 312 pp. The French version
was published at Strasbourg in 1993. The work is very well written.
Being intended for the general public, it uses second-hand sources.
It is strange that for the death of Decebalus no reference is made
to the discovery of the funerary monument and inscription from Grammeni
(Greece) stating that Tiberius Claudius Maximus was the one who brought
the head of Decebalus to Ranisstorum (not identified), where Trajan
was encamped. (See M. Speidel, "The Captor of Decebalus. A New Inscription
from Philippi," published in JRS, 60, 1970, pp. 142-153.) The book has
also some printing errors, such as "Gallienus (153-268)" instead of
"Gallienus (253-268)" (p. 53), and "Dacha" instead of "Dacia" (p. 58).
Following is a quotation from p. 57 of this book:

        "Nevertheless, as most sources tell that Dacia was completely
evacuated, historians are confronted with two choices: they either
accept unconditionally these pieces of information and believe that
Dacia was completely deserted by its inhabitants upon the emperor's
order, or, in spite of the silence of sources, they admit, by comparison
to what happened elsewhere, that part of the Romanized population stayed
behind after the withdrawal of the Roman troups.
        "The first interpretation leads to the 'immigration theory' to
explain the existence of an isle of Romance language populations in
south-eastern Europe. According to this thesis, as Dacia's Romanized
population fled south of the Danube, the Romanian language would have
been imported later by the populations coming from south of the Danube
after the arrival of the Magyars within the Carpathian arc. Though
fundamented by three sources maintaining the total evacuation of
Dacia, this thesis cannot resort to any source to prove a subsequent
'immigration.'
        "The second interpretation is that of the 'theory of continuity.'
It is not undeniable, even if sustained by logic, since it contradicts
three sources generally deemed as well informed.
        "Two theses therefore oppose historians, one resorting to logic
against historical sources, the other rejecting logic, to the benefit
of texts, as contradictory as they may be."


John Albu >

Wolfgang Rackebrandt wrote:

> > (Also note these semantic aspects in German: (1) Klaus < Nikolaus (the name
) -- 
> > along
> >with  (2) Klause = closet; cell, hermitage; mountain-pass, defile)
> 
> So do you think then that the German 'Clusenberg'/'Klausenburg' is older
> than the Hungarian 'Kolozsvar'? I always thought the German variety of the
> town's name was just a phonetical germanization of the older Hungarian
> name.

I do not know. But note the initial consonants [kl], usual both in German and i
n 
Romanian (as in any Indoeuropean language), but not typical in Hungarian. In Ko
losz- 
you have an auxiliary vowel. OTOH, Germans (i.e. Transylvanian "Saxons") would 
have made of it *Koloschburg. Romanians, e.g. *Coloj- or *Coluj- or *Ca~luj- + 
suffix 
"-oara". (Cf. a family name Colojoara.)

So there must be a reason why they chose the (possible adaptation) "Klus-" whic
h after 
the last High German vowel shift (letzte Lautverschiebung) became "Klaus-". (Yo
u 
know very well what I mean, Wolfi, since you live at the "frontier" in Berlin! 
 "auf - uff" 
;-)

> Bye, Wolf

g

Dear Joska:

> Found the 1995 www listing of the north of Pittsburgh music and dance=20
> camp. Is there a camp this year? Could I have info?
> Hungarian born Ardent folk dancer.
This year OKROS Ensemble with Sandor Neti (one the most well know=20
"primas") will provide the music for the Hungarian Dance Camp Symposium '96=
..

Location is Enon Valley, PA; you need to contact Kalman Magyar for more
information @ (201) 836-4869.  See you at the camp!=20

=DCdv=F6zlettel,

=C1rpad F=E1bi=E1n Kov=E1cs
--
WWW                : http://www.glue.umd.edu/~kovacs
personal email     : 

Kulfoldi Magyar Cserkeszszovetseg 

                      ****1996 Nyari Magyar Iskola****

Egyedul maradtunk az eszakamerikai nyari iskolak kozul, de renduletlen
lelkesedessel, 28 tanfolyam tapasztalataival, szerettel varunk Teged is!

                                                      TAJEKOZTATO

AZ ISKOLA IDOTARTAMA   A tabor haromhetes. 1996 julius 7-tol julius 28-ig
tart. Resztvevoket csak a teljes idotartamra fogadunk el. A resztvevok
eletkora 8 es 14 ev kozotti. Kiveteles esetben az eletkorban engedmenyt
tehetunk.

NYARI ISKOLA   A haromhetes nyari tanfolyam alatt 72 orat forditunk a
szorosan vett tanitasra (napi negy orat). Ez nagyjabol megfelel a hetvegi
magyar iskolak egy tanevenek. A tabori egyuttlet, a kornyezet szepsege, a
nyugodt es hosszas egyuttlet nagyszeru lehetoseget biztosit a zavartalan
tanitashoz es tanulashoz.

NEM KELL MEGIJEDNI: NEMCSAK ISKOLA   A Sik Sandor Cserkeszpark
romantikusan szep terulete, a kirandulasok es a furdes nyari vidamsagokkal
fuszerezi az iskola tabori eletet. A tanitassal es nyaralassal
parhuzamosan a tanulok kozossegi felelossegtudatat is igyekszunk
fejleszteni.

A TANITAS SZINTJE   igazodik a tanulok nyelvtudasahoz, es rendszerint negy
osztalyban folyik. A kituzott cel a magyarsag megismertetese. Az eloadasok
magyar nyelven folynak es a tanulok egymas kozott is csak a magyar nyelvet
hasznalhatjak. Az idei iskolatabor a 29-ik nyari iskola 1968 ota. Kivalo
tankonyveket es naprakesz pedagogia es didaktikai eszkozoket hasznalunk.

TANARI KAR...Az amerikai magyarsag kivalo pedagogusai es olyan nevelok
aldozzak fel szabadsagukat, akik nemreg jottek Magyarorszagrol. Javareszuk
cserkeszvezetok akik sikeresen dolgoznak a magyar ifjusag szolgalataban.

FEGYELEM ES ELLENORZES   a nyari iskola a Magyar Cserkeszszovetseg hosszu
evtizedeken at tokelesitett es jol bevalt taborozasi szabalyaihoz
igazodik.

ELHELYEZES   a tobb mint 100 holdas, erdos- csalitos, szemet
gyonyorkodteto, napsutotte tisztasokkal, suru --templomi csendet araszto
-- fenyvesekkel tarkitott Sik Sandor Cserkeszparkban, Buffalo varosatol 75
merfoldre DK iranyban. Fillmore kozseg hataraban. Szallas fahazakban. Az
idojarastol fuggoen az erdei eloadohelyeken vagy teremben folyik. A parkot
gepkocsival lehet megkozeliteni, kiki a sajat szervezeseben. A jelentkezes
utan reszletes terkepet kuldunk.

AZ ISKOLA LEVELEZESI CIME:
Sik Sandor Cserkeszpark
RD 1., Box 99
Fillmore NY  14735
Telefon: 716-567-8594

ETKEZES taplalo es boseges. A felszolgalas csaladias. Mind a napot, mind
az etkezeseket imaval kezdjuk es fejezzuk be.

EGESZSEGUGYI VISZONYOK   A taborvezetes gondjainak sorrendjeben elso
helyen all a resztvevok egeszsegenek megorzese es a baleseteket
elkerulese. A park epuletei es felszerelesei New York allam egeszsegugyi
eloirasainak megfelelnek es allando hatosagi ellenorzes alatt allnak.
Orvos es korhaz a kozelben elerheto.

JELENTKEZES   Jelentkezesi iv ehhez a tajekoztatonkhoz van mellekelve. A
kitoltott ivet kerjuk junius 15-ig a Kulfoldi Magyar Cserkeszszovetseg
cimere bekuldeni.

RESZVETEL FELVETEL   Megerkezes utan minden jelentkezo elozetes szobeli
vizsgat kell tegyen magyar nyelvtudasanak felmeresere. Aki nem beszel
magyarul -- a legnagyob sajnalatunkra -- nem vehetjuk fel az iskolaba,
mert tanitasainkat nem tudna kovetni.

BEIRATKOZAS   az erkezeskor kerni fogjuk a kitoltott egeszsegugyi ivet.
Fontos, hogy minden rovatot kitoltsunk. Betegbiztositas nelkul egyetlen
gyermeket sem vallalhatunk.

SZALLITAS BUFFALOBOL   Buffaloban elo cserkeszszulok mar eve ota
segitsegunkre vannak es a resztvevoket elszallitjak a Sik Sandor
Cserkeszparkba. Tehat lehetseges, hogy a gyermekek szallitasat a buffaloi
repuloterrol vagy autobuszmegallotol vallalni tudjuk. Aki ezt a
szolgalatot igenybe akarja venni, tudassa velunk junius 15-ig.

LATOGATAS   szombat delutan 2 oratol az esti zaszlolevonasig


TOVABBI FELVILAGOSITAST NYUJT:

Dr. Papp Klara
9431 Westport Rd., Box 168
Louisville, KY  40241
Tel: 502-429-8651


Kulfoldi Magyar Cserkeszszovetseg
P.O.Box 68
Garfield, NJ 07026
Fax: 201-772-5145
Tel:  201-772-8810
e-mail: 
******************************************************************

"Amit csinalunk, itt es ma, az nem
felekezet es nem egyhaz, de a vallas maga,
amit epitunk, az nem vilagnezet, nem
partpolitika, nem uzlet, de hit es
ketsegbeesett remenyseg, amit mi elunk az
nem mulatsag, nem sport, nem martirium,
amiben bizunk, az nem a rombolas,
nem a tagadas, nem a halal, de a feltamadas..."
       Kos Karoly

> ----------------------------------------------------------------

                                            JELENTKEZESI IV   1996

gyermek neve  ______________________________________
lakcim  ___________________________________________
              ___________________________________________
telefon   ___________________________________________
szuletesi datum  ____________   osztalyt kezdi osszel  _________
szuletesi helye   _____________________________________
hany eve laknak kulfoldon  ______________________________
edesapja neve  ______________________________________
foglalkozasa  _______________________________________
edesanyaja neve  ____________________________________
foglalkozasa  _______________________________________
napkozi telefonszam - apa  _____________________________
napkozi telefonszam - anya  ____________________________

Kerem gyermekem(gyermekeim) felvetelet a Nyari Iskolaban. A gyermekenkenti
100 $USD szolo eloleg csekket (penz utalvanyt) mellekelem. 
A reszvetelidij tobbi reszet az iskolaba erkezeskor fizetem. 
A csekket HUNGARIAN SUMMER SCHOOL nevre kerjuk kiallitani
Posta cim:  Hungarian Scout Association - P.O.Box 68, Garfield, NJ  07026

Az iskola felteteleit elfogadom. Tudomasul veszem, hogy a tanulas nyelve
vegig magyar, es a tanulok egymas kozott is csak magyarul tarsaloghatnak.
A gyermekem beszel magyarul es kepes ezt a szabalyt kovetni.


szuloi alairas _____________________    datum ____________

>O jaj, egzisztencialis terror! Idezzunk nehany tenyt mielott ezek 
>a zavaro aprosagok teljesen feledesbe merulnek.
>
>Az osszes baj amivel Odor ur sajtoszabadsaga sarba lett volna 
>tiporva az lett volna, hogy elveszik a pesti internet accountjat.
>Mi ebben az egzisztencia ? Hol a terror? Ujradefinialjuk a magyar 
>nyelvet?

Persze igy kezdodnek ezek az ugyek.  Eloszor az accountjat fuggesztik
fel a "kivizsgalas" idejere, utana meg ot magat az allasabol.  Csak
kerdezd meg Nemenyi Petert, aki a HIX FORUMaba szokott irni.
Epp most jelentette be, hogy kifurtak a "ma'ssa'g" apostolai. 
>
>A "feljelentes" egy kulfoldi accountrol erkezett.

Persze.  NPA eseteben is.  De biztos egy magyarul is beszelo illetotol.
Esetleg ideiglenesen kulfoldon tartozkodo "senior" kollegatol.
Az ilyen alakok nevenek maximalis nyilvanossagot kellene biztositani.
Remelem igy is lesz.
>
>Odor ur egy baratsagosnak mondhato levelet kapott amiben arra 
>kerik, ugyan magyarazna mar meg, mirol beszel a "feljelento".

Persze en nem a baratsagos level irojara celoztam, hanem az
okvetetlenkedo feljelentore.

>Ha meg arrol lett volna szo, hogy Odor urat prompt kirugjak, az 
>sem veszelyeztette volna egzisztenciajat, hiszen ne mondja nekem 
>senki, hogy egy pesti kutatoi allasbol egzisztalni lehet.

Ezt talan ra kellene bizni, nem?

PJ

Peter Szaszvari > wrote:
>
>Mennyiben erinti ez a magyarorszagi sajtoszabadsag kerdeset?

OK, nevezzuk ezt inkabb a szolasszabadsag kerdesenek, amit itt az USAban
altalaban egy kalap alatt kezelnek a sajtoszabadsaggal (mivel ugyanaz az
alkotmanyos kiegeszites vedi mindkettot).

>1. Amennyire tudom a HIX nem Mo.-n van
>2. Ez a diszkusszio a a magyar sajtoszabadsag sarbatiprasarol (OT 
>majdnem eltiltasa altal) szolt.

Mivel MO is, az USA is ma demokratikus berendezkedesu orszagnak vallja
magat, nem latom helyet ilyen pitianer kulonbsegtevesnek.
OT es NPA eseteben is elhallgattatasi kiserletrol van szo.

Ami viszont kellemes meglepetes volt a FORUMon, hogy ket egyaltalan nem
jobboldali beallitottsagu tag is eliteloen nyilatkozott az NPA elleni 
akciorol.  Gondolom a tovabbi FORUM szamokban ez az ugy vizvalaszto
szerepet jatszhat.

PJ

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				 ONLY FRENCH

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In article > g, 
writes:
>But note the initial consonants [kl], usual both in German and in 
>Romanian (as in any Indoeuropean language), but not typical in Hungarian.

Well,  the number of Hungarian villages and towns with this
intitial is above 2200. This alone refutes your dubious preli-
minary condition but I checked my dictionaries as well:

The K in the 
Hungarian- German:   103 pages 
German- Hungarian:    46 pages

I am afraid Hungarian language has more k initials than the
German.

Tamas

The O"kro"s String Ensemble from Budapest
                           with
FODOR SA'NDOR, "NE'TI", the last great gypsy fiddler
   from Kalotaszeg, Transylvania
                 in Concert!
June 18, 1996 at 7:30 pm
St. Stephen's King of Hungary Church
2015 W. Augusta Blvd (corner of Damen and Augusta)
Chicago, IL  
For information call: (312) 583-9030
Tickets: $10

Featuring:
Sa'ndor Fodor - violin                       Csaba O"kro"s - violin
Miklo's Molna'r - violin                      La'szlo' Kelemen - kontra
(viola)
L'aszlo' Mester - kontra (viola)           Robert Doo'r - bass

Ne'ti, at age 74, is a violinist of incomparable virtuosity and technique.
His is the incredlble fiddle you hear on many recordings of Ta'ncha'z
bands, as well as with vocalists, including Ma'rta Sebestye'n. He has also
been the inspiration and the teacher for many of the musicians who are the
revival movement of Hungarian music.

The O"kro"s Ensemble have acquired their knowledge of and love for this
music from visiting and studying with folk musicians from remote folk
villages in Hungary and Transylvania.  Not only do they have the marvelous
ability to present the soul of music, but they also perform on authentic
instruments.

There is a special relationship between Sa'ndor Fodor, Ne'ti, and the
O"kro"s Ensemble. It starts with Csaba O"kro"s, who is Neti's foremost
musical disciple, and extends to all the band members. They have played
Kalotaszeg weddings together. They have toured Western Europe together.
and they have performed on many recordings together. To hear Neti play
with the O"kro"s Ensemble is to be transported back to a different world.
A world where music had a more personal power. A world where ther
relationship between musicians and listener (or dancer) was far more
intense. A world where music truly lived.

If you would like information about other happenings in the world of
Hungarian music and dance, or if you have other information, please
contact me:


Barbara Seaver

Thanks!

In article > Peter Szaszvari,
 writes:

>Ha vitapartnerunknek igaza latszik lenni valamiben, mondjuk azt, 
>hogy viszont mas esetben, mashol, es mas dolog mashogy esett.
>Ez a fajta argumentacio egyszeruen fold buta (es most finom 
>voltam)

>Melyik az az orszag ahol nincsenek hulyek?
>Melyik az az orszag ahol nem lehet feljelentest tenni?
>Melyik az az orszag ahol nincsenek feljelentok?

>Nem ott kezdodik a baj veletlenul amikor a feljelentest 
>meghallgatjak, es avval aki meghallgatja?

>Pannon, Kocsis es a tobbi egylogikaju!

Mint megszolitott egylogikaju ( teccik a szo, nyilvan nem
vagyok  ket vagy tobblogikaju meghasonlott, neadjisten
skizofren, de ne lovagoljunk a szavakon), egye fene vala-
szolok a kerdesre. Raerek.( Illetve nem, csak utallom ezt a
szar regi Fortran kodot attenni C-re)

Nem tartom szerencsesnek, hogy a sajtoszabadsag kerde-
sere terelodott a szo, noha erinti azt is,mert a szabad ve-
lenynyilvanitas joga serult itt a legjobban.

Egy kor erejeig visszaternek a vitat kivalto iras (Odor)
par sorara, abbol is feljelento  "senior kollega" szavaira :

"... Ki ez az Odor Tibor, aki az intezetbol allandoan
........... fasiszta szovegeket kuld a neccre"

Tegnapelott veletlenul sikerult befogni a Petofit a Wohn-
gemeinschaft tarsalgobeli radiojan, igaz egy francia adot
kerestem, de osszekevertem az FM-et az AM gombbal. Szo-
val bejott a Petofi.  Eppen az csermanekrol volt szo, mert
Korniss irt rola valami konyvet, es pont az 57-ben az ENSZ-
ben elmondott nagyhatasu  beszedjet (sic, ugyan  en mar
csak a felszenilisen elmondott, kinyogdecselt idiota kozhely-
gyujtemenyeit hallhattam eloben) jatszottak be , amiben
munkasvolta buszke vallalasa utan azert korjellemzes celja-
bol nem hagyhatott ki egy kis tortenelmi kiterot, ahol elhang-
zott a horthista-FASISZTA [kiemeles tolem] allandojelzo-bok-
rocska.

Az a kurva nagy helyzet, hogy ez a jelzo kisse le lett am ja-
ratodva az elmult rendszerben, ahol az informaciotartalma
csupan annyit tett, hogy *nem kommunista* a delikvens, erre
jott ra az erzelmi toltes, azt kifejezendo, hogy a celzott nem
hogy csak nem kommunista, hanem valamiert haragszanak is
ra .

Eppen ezert ha ma hallom ezt a jelzot, en altalaban Freudian
slip-nek szoktam tulajdonitani. Europerliberalissa  valas go-
rongyos utjain tantorgo Botraszarik elvtarsbol kibujik az igazi
enje.

Ez egyutt a regi jo megszokott kommunista praktikaval, a be-
moszerolassal egyetemben nekem mar tobb mint sok. Itt a lenyeg
nem az, hogy X-et jol mexivatom azzal, hogy  irok egy nevtelen fel-
jelento levelet, hanem nyiltan vallalom, mert jo pontot akarok vele
szerezni a Partban, a Fonoknel, Valahol, ahol X egyebkent egyaltalan 
nem all jol (mondhatni kiloheto vad), igy a strebersegemmel abszo-
lute nem kockaztatok semmit.

Mint kortunet ez nagyon aggaszto. Az kozelet  remesen hasonlit
a nyolcvanas evek elejeire, visszazokkenni latszik minden a regi
kerekvagasba, mukodni kezdenek a regi reflexek, van mar megint
oncenzura. Azt mondanam, hogy a sajtoszabadsag elvesztesen mar
tul vagyunk (azt mondom Freedom House, es felszavakbol is megert-
juk egymast, ugye ?), ott tartunk, hogy mar az alapveto szemelyes
jogokert kell kuzdeni, soxor bizony kilatastalanul.

Az egyik szemem sir, a masik nevet. Hogy miert sir, azt fenntebb le-
irtam. Nos, a masik azert nevet, mert en kurvara utallom a liberali-
sokat, es olyan jo nezni, hogy mit csinalnak. Nekem eleg fontosak
az elveim, ezert jo nezni ha az ellenseg a sajatjait sarba tiporja.
Erzem a tettuk sulyat, meg ha azok a szerencsetlen amoralis szub-
human kotonszokevenyek ebbol nem is fognak fel semmit. 

Szoval kedves tobblogikaju Peterem, kicsit hatrebb az agarakkal.
Azert itt tortent valami, ami nagyon szegyenletes. Eddig mindig
jot rohogve olvasgattam Dragon Fly internet stukachi listajat es
sokadszorra is jokat mulattam az abszurditasan, es buszke voltam
arra, hogy ilyen mar csak ott fenn eszakkeleten tortenhet. Ha nem
tudnad, azon a listan szerepel egy nagyon sikeres libi feljelento (nev,
cim mellekelve), aki egy jolelhelyezett feljelento levellel  orosz
nacionalista vitapartnerenek elintezte jolfizeteto allasa elveszteset.
Hat itt tartunk. Moralisan mar megint a Birodalomhoz tartozunk.

Vedd csak a munder becsuletet, Peter.

Tamas

 () wrote:

>mesuge?  Mar neha a frasz kerulget amikor ismet latom valahol leirva,
>s gozom sincs mit jelent.  S.O.S.!!!

>Pannon J.
Nemet tajszolas: Meschugge. Annyit jelent, hogy huelye, bolod,
felkegyelmue, stb.

angel
       ~                  ~                                  
  ~            _/_/_/  _/   _/~ _/_/_/   _/_/_/   _/  ~      
              _/~ _/ ~_/_/ _/  _/   ~   _/       _/   ~     ~ 
         ~   _/_/_/  _/ _/_/  _/~_/_/  _/_/~    _/ ~    ~    
~           _/  _/  _/ ~ _/  _/ ~ _/~ _/       _/        ~   
           _/  _/  _/   _/ ~ _/_/_/  _/_/_/  ~_/_/_/         
      ~      ~                  ~     ~         ~            


                http://trade-center.com/pro/
                

Gyuejtoeoldalomon oesszehordok minden INTERNET szolgaltatast, ami
ingyenes. Akit erdekli:
*************************************
http://www.trade-center.com/pro
*************************************
       ~                  ~                                  
  ~            _/_/_/  _/   _/~ _/_/_/   _/_/_/   _/  ~      
              _/~ _/ ~_/_/ _/  _/   ~   _/       _/   ~     ~ 
         ~   _/_/_/  _/ _/_/  _/~_/_/  _/_/~    _/ ~    ~    
~           _/  _/  _/ ~ _/  _/ ~ _/~ _/       _/        ~   
           _/  _/  _/   _/ ~ _/_/_/  _/_/_/  ~_/_/_/         
      ~      ~                  ~     ~         ~            


                http://trade-center.com/pro/
                

In article > Marius Iacomi,
 writes:
>Did you noticed the final "s" in the word "consonants"?!

You are right. Its time to get new, stronger glasses. 8-(

The case with 'kl' is different indeed, We have ten or so
villages with such initials, and some of them have a se-
cond variation with a vowel in between, like this:

Klacsan -Kalacsan

However the case of Clus- Kolozs is not that clear because
the Kloster word (beside kolostor) went  to Hungarian
another different way and in those cases the consonants
remained together, like in the names of these villages:

Klastromfalva
Klastromalja

As I mentioned earlier the German origin of the  town could
be proved on historical ground. That's much easier I think.

Tamas

>
>Hello,
>
>I have come across my great grandfather's U.S. naturalization papers. 
It
>lists his country of origin as Hungary (and family history indicates
>Budapest). His last name is Dutch, but like many immigrants, he did not
>communicate well when he first arrived. I suspect that the name might
>have been alterred. Does anyone have an opinion if this name looks
>correct, or if it doesn't, what it may have been?
>
>Thanks
>George


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Hi there:

I had a classmate in college at Budapest, his name was Deutsch. That may 
very well be the name you're looking for.

Best Regards,





DR. LASZLO   THYC43A @Prodigy.com.

In article > Peter Szaszvari,
 writes:
>Koszonom Tamas, 
>pontos peldajat adtad annak amit nagyon veszelyes tevedesnek 
>tartok, es azt hittem sikerult mar vegre elmagyarazni.

Elegans, a felremagyarazasi technikad, ezt el kell ismerni.  Bar
manapsag  ha leirod hogy "elmagyarazni" mint fenntebbb, en
mar automatikusan "belemagyarazni"-t ertek alatta, igy nem er-
het kellemetlen meglepetes. ;-) ;-)

Az eredet Odor levelben a hangsuly nem a sajtoszabadsagon volt,
Tibor  leirja kiemelve a konkluziot:

           "Ez egy altalanos tamadas a velemeny nyilvanitas
           szabadsaga ellen"


A te interpretalasodban ez mar igy olvasodik:

           "Tenyleg a sajtoszabadsag vegromlasa lenne, ha egy intezet
           nem  kivanna onnek ingyenes segitseget adni"


Valoban, a sajto meg a szabadsag szo is szerepelt Tibor irasaban,
de ahhoz kolosszalis meretu csolatas vagy szelektiv olvasasi ke-
pesseg kell, hogy valaki ezt olvassa ki az irasbol. Ezzel szemben 
ertelmes (de rosszindulatu) embernek tartalak, feltetelezem, hogy
ez szandekos volt. Vegulis Jozsit jol le is szivattad, nem vette
eszre a csapdat, es szepen belesetalt.

Az irasod tobbi reszevel ezert nem is kivanok erdemben foglalkoz-
ni. Nincs koze sem az eredeti kerdeshez, sem az en irasomhoz.  A
katonatortenet viszont figyelemremelto.

De az alabbi gyongyszemet azert nem allom meg szo nelkul. 

      NEM A FELJELENTO "INTEZTE EL", HANEM AKI A FELJELENTEST
      KAPTA ES JOGOSNAK TALALTA!
      Nem az a baj egy rendszerben, hogy vannak feljelentok, ha-
      nem, ha a feljelenteseket a rendszer felhasznalja indokolat-
      lan estekben is.

En a kovetkezo cimet adnam neki: Nem En Vagyok A Bunos avagy
A Besugo Ariaja. A megzenesiteset rad bizom. :-)

De most komolyan: hogy voltal kepes ezt igy egy szuszra leirni ?
A besugo nem altruista, hanem hasznalja, kihasznalja a korrupt-
romlott rendszert.  Szimbiozisban el vele, tehat maga is resze a
rendszernek, meghozza a legromlottabb, legmocskosabb  resze,
hiszen nelkule a rendszer, tetszoleges totalis vagy totalitasra
torekvo rendszer,  egyszeruen nem erne el a maganszferakig. 

Tamas

In article >,
   T. Kocsis > wrote:

>De most komolyan: hogy voltal kepes ezt igy egy szuszra leirni ?
>A besugo nem altruista, hanem hasznalja, kihasznalja a korrupt-
>romlott rendszert.  Szimbiozisban el vele, tehat maga is resze a
>rendszernek, meghozza a legromlottabb, legmocskosabb  resze,
>hiszen nelkule a rendszer, tetszoleges totalis vagy totalitasra
>torekvo rendszer,  egyszeruen nem erne el a maganszferakig. 
>
>Tamas

Most viccelsz csak igazan! Minden elnyomo rendszer statisztikus 
alapon megtalalja besugoit. Mutass egy orszagot ahol nem lehet 
arulot talalni.
De nem ez a forditott logika?
Mit csinalnanak a besugok ha mindig csak suket fulekre 
talalnanak?

Szerintem kb 10^6 szor egyszerubb egy rendes rendszert osszeutni 
mint megszabadulni az osszas besugotol.
(Most jonne az a blodli, hogy ha Kadar nem adja a nevet az 
oroszok behivasahoz, hat nem akadt volna mas aki ezt tegye. A 
Walesi bardok az csak egy vers am igazabol!)

Es ismetlem, az atlagos emberi moralrol vitatkozni ERDEKTELEN.
(Hu milyen csunya bacsik is vannak, nahat!)

Most nem idezek, lustasagbol, de igen is, OT es az osszes tobbi 
hozzahaborodo sokkal tagabb keretbe tette a tortenetet, itt 
magarol a magyar sajtoszabadsagrol volt szo.
(Kenyszerithetsz idezetre, de elolvashatod magad is ujra.)


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

Gregg Black ) wrote:
> 
> Everybody   Fuck Otto J. Makela (Everybody   Fuck Otto J. Makela)
> wrote:
> 

> >Everybody   Fuck Otto J. Makela

(and the entire original post!)
 
> I'd rather not.
> 
> "Reading about jazz is like kissing your sister"
>                      -a librarian somewhere USA

You might "rather not" but did you have to leave the entire original post 
in your reply ? One line would have sufficed.

Archive-name: hungarian/faq
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: faq
Last-modified: 1996/02/14
Version: 1.41
Posting-Frequency: every fifteen days

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

     Hungarian electronic resources FAQ

               TABLE OF CONTENTS

1.      News and discussion groups in English
1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute
1.2  News from Central Europe Today
1.3  The Hungary Report
1.4  Hungary Online List (HOL)
1.5  MOZAIK
1.6  On USENET
1.7  'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 
1.8  , the Hungarian-American list

2.      News and discussion groups in Hungarian
2.1  HIX (many groups and services)
2.2  BLA Sajtoszemle [press review]
2.3  "Nemzet" Magyar Internet Vilaglap [Hungarian Internet World Bulletin]
2.4  Other discussion groups

3.      Interactive services
3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web
3.2  Gopher and other interactive services
3.3  ARENA

4.      The Net in Hungary
4.1  BITNET/HUEARN
4.2  HUNGARNET
4.3  FidoNet
4.4  Finding out somebody's email address

5.      Odds and ends
5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary
5.2  Conventions for coding Hungarian accents
5.3  Information sources about the rest of Central and Eastern Europe

6.      Contributors to this FAQ

7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

- - - ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 I know this is very long, perhaps too long for human consumption ;-).
One of the tasks for further editing is to make it more concise,
perhaps drop some parts altogether (I'd like to hear any suggestions).
You can search for the section titles listed above and skip what you
don't want, and many Unix newsreaders would jump ahead to the next one
with Ctrl-G (the format now follows the digest specification)!

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.  NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS IN ENGLISH

 Note: commercial networks -- such as CompuServe or AOL -- may have
their own in-house forums relating to Eastern and Central Europe. Be
aware that those are only open to the subscribers of the particular
service, unlike the discussion groups accessible by anyone via the
Internet and Usenet! This file -- the hungarian-faq -- is mostly
concerned with resources freely available netwide.
 See also the sections under 2. below which list services that carry
occasional English material, some regularly, besides their primarily
Hungarian language content.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute

 The Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest is available via
electronic mail, at no charge. The Digest covers all of the former
Soviet Union, East-Central and Southeastern Europe and is delivered in
two parts, each roughly 15 kByte in size, Monday through Friday (except
Czech holidays).

 You can subscribe by sending <mailto:>.
In the body of the message, type
 "SUBSCRIBE OMRI-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname" (leave out the quotation
marks and be sure to substitute your own name where shown).

 You can get reposts of just the items related to Hungary by
subscribing to Mozaik. See section 1.5.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.2  News from Central Europe Today

 Central Europe Today On-Line is a free daily news service covering the
important events and business news in the region. To subscribe, send
the word SUBSCRIBE <mailto:>. For more
detailed information, send a blank email message
<mailto:>.

Again, these exceed Hungary in scope, but you can get excerpts
pertaining to Hungary in Mozaik (see 1.4).

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.3  The Hungary Report

 The Hungary Report is a free weekly English-language online update of
news and analysis direct from Budapest each Sunday. The Report consists
of briefs, one feature story and an expert political opinion column.
The briefs cover the most important and interesting developments in
Hungary each week, while the feature stories address variously
politics, business, economics, arts and leisure. The weekly political
column, Parliament Watch, is written by Tibor Vidos, director of the
Budapest office of GJW, a British political lobbying and consulting
firm. To subscribe, send
<mailto:> containing (in the body
of the message, not in the headers) the single word "subscribe" (no
quotes).  Or send the word "info" to the same address for further
information.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.4  Hungary Online List (HOL)

 This discussion list is a "kind of Internet supplement" to the column
of the same title in Budapest Business Journal; to subscribe, send the
word "subscribe" <mailto:> (you'll get help
from its Majordomo server, if needed).

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.5  MOZAIK

 This is actually one of the services of HIX, meaning there's a slight
bit of Hungarian mixed in (the posts themselves are mostly in English,
but the server speaks Hunglish ;-)). MOZAIK brings you original content
(e.g. the schedule of DUNA TV, exchange rates), and digested reposts
of those news items (originating from OMRI, CET and other sources)
that bear directly on Hungary. You can subscribe by
sending a blank email message to <mailto:> and
unsubscribe by sending one to <mailto:>. See
section 3 about searching the HIX archives.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.6  On USENET

 The Hungarian newsgroup in the worldwide hierarchy is
<news:soc.culture.magyar>. It's mostly in English, sometimes
bilingual, and occasionally Hungarian only. The group is archived by
HIX (see its section for 'SCM') and is also readable under
<http://hix.mit.edu/usenet/>;. A similar archive is to be found at
<http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/>; (see 1.8 below). For www/e-mail
gateways see <http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzetiforum.html>; or the
archives mentioned above.

 Since May 1995 Hungary has its own netnews hierachy, with the following
groups created so far (hun.lists.* are email gateways):
        <news:hun.test>
        <news:hun.news>
        <news:hun.piac>
        <news:hun.comp>
        <news:hun.general>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.forum>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.hunet>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.moka>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.otthonka>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.szalon>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.tipp>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.vita>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.otthon>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.guru>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.kornyesz>
        <news:hun.lists.katalist>

 If you can connect to a remote news server (typically by setting the
NNTPSERVER variable under Unix), then you can get hun.* directly from
news.sztaki.hu or news.iif.hu (the former has been more stable
lately). Fetching articles is much faster from a local source - ask
you system administrator if they can get a feed! In the USA the first
provider offering the hierarchy seems to be AltNet,
<mailto:> to find out about that.  There is a gopher
interface to news: <gopher://mars.iif.hu:70/11/News> (the full URL to
go straight to the hun.* groups is:
<gopher://mars.iif.hu:70/1exec%3A-g%20hun%3A/bin/gonnrp>). 
For accessing groups in the international hierarchy from abroad via
gopher the gateway in the Netherlands may be better:
<gopher://g4nn.cca.vu.nl:4320/1g4nn%20group/soc.culture.magyar>.  The
hun.* groups are also archived by HIX (see its section for 'HUNGROUPS')
and they are also readable under <http://hix.mit.edu/usenet/>; as well
as <http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/>;.
 HIX provides a universal posting gateway to the soc.culture.magyar and
hun.* newsgroups. Use the addresses:
<mailto:>, for example
<mailto:>. A similar gatewaying service
is also available for soc.culture.magyar via
<mailto:> (see 1.8 below), as well as via
<mailto:> (see also 2.3).

 There are Hungarian local newsgroups available through
<telnet://ludens.elte.hu>, login with username GUEST (no password), and
enter NEWS to start the newsreader (you can use the VMS online help to
learn about it). The guest account is set up for accessing
<news:elte.diaklap> (students' journal at Eotvos U.), but other
newsgroups are available as well. (But please be considerate to the
strained network resources of Hungarian sites - from abroad for
non-local news use other providers.) For ELTE-specific questions
contact <mailto:>. This server is also accessible
via remote NNTP like the two mentioned above, but is often much slower
than those.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.7 'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 

  is a discussion group providing rapid communication
among those with interests in Hungarian issues. Subscribe by 
<mailto:> using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY Yourfirstname Lastname. Once you
have subscribed, any messages which you want to send to the group
should be sent to the group address, <mailto:>.
(This pattern of two addresses is standard: you turn your mail off and
on at the "listserv" address, and you send mail to the listname
address. For example, to  unsubscribe, send the server the message
SIGNOFF HUNGARY. You can temporarily turn off you mail by sending
listserv the message SET HUNGARY NOMAIL. SET HUNGARY MAIL turns mail
back on.) By default the listserv sends out messages as they arrive,
maybe several ones on busier days. If you prefer daily digest format,
you can issue the command SET HUNGARY DIGESTS (again by sending it to
the LISTSERV address); alternatively you can subscribe to HUNGARY via
HIX as mentioned in 2.1, and receive the same format as the other lists
by HIX. LISTSERV has many useful features, most notably database search
on the list archives - to learn more about it, send commands like SEND
HELP, SEND HELP DATABASE.

 Note that the form of addressing LISTSERV lists such as Hungary may
depend a great deal on your local network configuration and mailer
software. For BITNET mailers you need GWUVM only; the local gatewaying
to BITNET may be BITNET% for VAXMail installations and
 at other places. Ask your local network
administrator first if you're experiencing problems.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.8  , the Hungarian-American list

 The Hungarian-American List is an unmoderated discussion forum to
promote communications between people with interest in modern Hungarian
culture and Hungarian cultural heritage. The list brings you, among
other things, news items originating from OMRI, CET, the Hungarian
media and several other sources, that might be of interest for
Hungarians and Americans. The WWW Home Page of the Hungarian-American
list is <http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/>;. Subscribe by
<mailto:>, using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY. The Hungarian Usenet group -
soc.culture.magyar is available for Hungarian-American List subscribers
via email. You can subscribe to this news-to-mail-to-news service by
<mailto:>, using no Subject, in the body of the
letter write SUBSCRIBE SOC-CULTURE-MAGYAR. The WWW address of the
interactive soc.culture.magyar archive is
<http://mineral.umd.edu/soc.culture.magyar/>;.

 (Notice that this Maryland-based list is distinct from the older
LISTSERV list mentioned in 1.7 that has a broader focus - mentioning
'the HUNGARY list' ususally refers to that latter one! Note also that
the Majordomo server syntax is different from LISTSERV for many of
their commands - see the help document sent by the server.)

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.  NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS IN HUNGARIAN

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.1  HIX

 HIX, or Hollosi Information eXchange, is a non-profit formation run
and supported by several individuals and organizations. HIX was started
in 1989/90 and now it reaches more than 10,000 readers in about 45 countries
around the World.

Its services, mostly in Hungarian, are abundant and change frequently, so
it is best to obtain an up-to-date help file by sending an email message to
<mailto:> (a recent copy of that also seems to be in
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/MAIN/HELP.ALL>; - but please
notice that there are superseded copies scattered in other parts in
the archive on the one hand, and many of the other files in this same
directory are outdated on the other hand; most notably, DO NOT TOUCH
that ancient version of hungarian-faq found there!). Here's a list of
what it currently offers in email digest format:

 HIR      -- 'Hirmondo', current newspaper survey edited in Budapest
 NARANCS  -- The Internet edition of the 'Magyar Narancs' weekly
 TIPP     -- politics-free questions, tips etc.
 SZALON   -- moderated political discussion forum
 FORUM    -- unmoderated political discussion forum
 GURU     -- computer-related questions
 RANDI    -- moderated personals; anonymous submissions possible
 VITA     -- moderated non-political discussion forum
 OTTHON   -- issues around the home
 MOKA     -- jokes, humor (Hungarian and other)
 MOZAIK   -- semi-regular bits of news and other info, mostly in
	     English, crossposts from the OMRI list, VoA gopher, CET
	     and other sources
 HUNGARY  -- daily digest of the Hungary LISTSERV list (see 1.7)
 SCM      -- gatewayed email digest of the Usenet newsgroup
             soc.culture.magyar 

 The following is not available for email subscription from
Hungary, but are accessible via the SENDDOC interface (or the
'finger ' service for the latest issues):
 HUNGROUPS - gatewayed email digest of the hun.* regional newsgroups

 Note that KEP (transcripts from the videotext news from Hungarian
Television's Kepujsag) has been suspended indefinitely - despite what
HIX' own HELP says.

 To subscribe (unsubscribe) to a particular email-journal, send email
to  ) where NAME is one of the
above.

 The postings for the HIX discussion lists are sent out daily in
digested form. You can send your own submission to ,
whatever NAME is (provided it's actually a discussion list).

 The volume for some of these lists is becoming rather high, e.g. TIPP
often digests dozens of messages in hundreds of lines daily!  You ought
to try targeting your audience properly in order to find those who'd
help with your questions; also keep in mind that readers often answer
to the list rather than the individual even when personal reply is
requested, so if you ask something it's a good idea to subscribe also
(even though technically it's not required) instead of just addressing
a list as a non-subscriber. A reminder to those who reply to a post:
always remember that list messages get sent to several thousand readers,
so consider personal email if the subject is not of general interest!
If you answer through a list it's courteous to send a personal copy
(Cc: with most mailers) as well - this may reach the addressee
considerably earlier than the post distributed through the list.
 Notice the (undocumented) feature of the HIX mail-server: it only
accepts submissions if its address is found in the 'To:' header field!
It would quietly ignore incoming email Cc-d to it, so do not put the
 in the 'Cc:' (you can do so with other addressees).

 The HIX server can also send out archived files, see the SENDDOC
function in its description. In case you have any problems or questions
on the HIX services, please read through the automatic help response
first. If you need human intervention you can reach
<mailto:> - but keep in mind that list managers have
to do plenty other than answering things already laid out in the Fine
Manual.

 You can also view the output of HIX interactively. See section 3.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.2  BLA Sajtoszemle

 Daily selection of articles from leading Hungarian newspapers by
the Lajos Batthyany Foundation, published by the Hungary.Network.
 
 To subscribe (unsubscribe), send email to <mailto:>
(<mailto:>). Also available in 123 accent notations
from the <mailto:> address.

 It is also readable on the WWW under <http://www.hungary.com/bla/sajto/>;.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.3  Nemzet Magyar Internet Vilaglap [Hungarian Internet World Bulleti
n]

 [This section is as provided by <mailto:>]

(1) (E-mail news bulletins)
        "Nemzet" Magyar Internet Vilaglap
        E-mail news digest, Mon-Fri, 25-55k. Comprises East-European
        regional news (by OMRI, in English), excerpts from Hungarian
        press (in Hungarian), and reports on newsworthy items (press,
        events, etc., mostly in Hungarian and occasionally in English)

        Subscription/Unsubscription:
        
        
        www:  http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet.html

        Publisher and Editor in Chief: 

(2) (usenet e-mail digest)
        "Nemzetiforum"
        Digest of "Soc.Culture.Magyar" by means of e-mail bulletin, filtering
        out all lists and postings beyond size 8k.

        Subscription/Unsubscription:
        
        
        www: http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzetiforum.html

        Publisher and Editor in Chief: 

(3) (www/e-mail gateway)
        E-mail message is acknowledged and posted to "Soc.Culture.Magyar",
        with your address and your subject-definition.
        Simply send contributions to  

        Gateway maintained under direction of:


(5) Hungarian Papers on WWW (liberal to conservative)

        (a)     168 ORA
                http://www.atm.com.pl/COM/xlori/168/ora.html

        (b)     KELET-MAGYARORSZAG
                http://www.bgytf.hu/public/keletm/

        (c)     UJVIDEKI NAPLO
                http://www.mediarange.com/media/huncor/organ/naplo/naplo.htm

        (d)     DEMOKRATA
                http://www.siliconvalley.com/demokrata/

        (e)     NEMZET
                http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet.html

        (f)     MAGYAR ELET

http://www.mediarange.com/media/huncor/organ/magyarel/hunlife.htm

        (g)     24. ORA
                http://www.infobahnos.com/~jtoth/


- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.4  Other discussion groups in Hungarian

 A number of email lists are available from servers located in Hungary,
for directory see <gopher://HUEARN.sztaki.hu>. There are many college
publications available online as well, check out the links from the HU
homepage (see below).

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 3. INTERACTIVE SERVICES

 If you are using Hungarian interactive services from abroad (or vice
versa): please note that interactive Internet connections like gopher
may be very slow, even timing out during peak hours - try times of
lower network load when the response time is usually reasonable.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web

 This document you are reading now is hosted at
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq>;, and its directory
has a few other documents and several links to other sites of
interest.

 The Hungarian Home Page is at
<http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/homepage.html>; with links to the
registered Hungarian www servers, including

     - the Prime Minister's Office:  <http://www.meh.hu>; (overseas users
    please notice that the use of the <http://www.hungary.com/meh/>;
    mirror is requested to cut down transatlantic traffic!)

     - a weather forecast page (this is updated daily, and includes weather
    forecasts, meteorological maps, and METEOSAT satellite images; this
    page is in Hungarian)

     - home pages of Hungarian cities (currently Budapest, Debrecen,
    Miskolc, Pecs, Szeged), and of educational and other institutions 

     - a comprehensive list of Hungarian telnet services (e.g. library 
    databases), gopher and ftp sites (3.2). The content of almost all the 
    Hungarian FTP sites is indexed and can be searched.

 The Hungary Online Directory (HUDIR) is at
<http://www.hungary.com/hudir/>; featuring a hierarchical
database of Hungarian online content worldwide. Currently it has links
in excess of 2500.

 HIX has a WWW server in the USA: the URL is <http://hix.mit.edu>;.
To check out fresh content, see <http://hix.mit.edu/friss2/>;, which
gives you a comprehensive table of content for new material arrived in
the last 24 hours (which is typically in the order of 100-150 pages).
Besides back issues of its email journals, and a plethora of other
files in Hungarian and English, it offers an on-line English-Hungarian,
Hungarian-English dictionary (<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/szotar/>; - its
European mirror is at <http://tpri6l.gsi.de/szotar.html>;), and various
home pages and pointers to other sources. Partial mirrors located in
Hungary are <http://www.eunet.hu/eunet/hix/>; (for the Magyar Narancs
archive), and <http://hal9000.elte.hu/hix/>; (for some pictures, and
searching the Radir database - see below).

 Hungary.Network - The GateWWWay to Hungary at
<http://www.hungary.com/>; has a number of government, commercial and
organizational users listed.

 TourInform is at <http://www.hungary.com/tourinform/>; is the service
of the Hungarian Tourism Service, the official promotion agency of the
Hungarian Tourist Board. They offer practical information, maps,
broshures and even tours on video casette.

 The Open Media Research Institute has a WWW server, available at
<http://www.omri.cz>;.  Available at this Web site are all back issues
of the Daily Digest, tables of contents for Transition, OMRI's
bi-weekly analytical journal, and information about OMRI's activities
and staff.

 The World Wide Web server of Central Europe Today is at the URL
<http://www.eunet.cz>;.

 Find back issues of the Hungary Report on the World Wide Web at 
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-report/>; or <http://www.isys.hu/hol>;. 
The Hungary-Online archive is available from 
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-online/>; or <http://www.isys.hu/hrep>; 
as well.

 There is a growing Hungarian resource directory at
<http://mineral.umd.edu/hir/>;. [The same server also hosts a
"Hungarian Electronic Resources FAQ" <http://mineral.umd.edu/faq/>;.]

 There is a "Foreign Languages for Travellers" collection of essential
Hungarian expressions with English, German and French explanation,
complete with sound at
<http://insti.physics.sunysb.edu/~mmartin/languages/hungarian/hungarian.html>;.

 The American Association of Young Hungarians (AAYH) has its homepage
at <http://www.aayh.org/>;.

 A Hungarian church in Chicago has info at
 <http://users.aol.com/MikeC16958/>;.

 The Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College (Nyiregyhaza) offers 
some 3000 pages worth of database for Szabolcs-Szatmar-Bereg county 
(Eastern Hungary) as well as other goodies and general Internet help,
in both Hungarian and English: <http://www.bgytf.hu/>;.

 See also section 2.3 above, which covers
<http://www.siliconvalley.com/>; and refers to other links as well.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 3.2  Gopher and other interactive services

 HIX has a server in the USA: <gopher://hix.mit.edu>. Its services
form just a subset of what it offers as a WWW site. RaDir is sometimes
useful for finding email-addresses, old or new friends on the Net. See
also Section 4.4.

 HIX has a gopher in Hungary as well:
<gopher://hix.elte.hu/11/HIX/HIX>, and another mirror at
<gopher://gopher.bke.hu:71/11/hix> (notice that this latter uses a
non-standard Gopher port number). Check also <gopher://gopher.elte.hu>
and <gopher://gopher.sztaki.hu>. Note that gopher is essentially
text-based (thus less satisfying than the Web) but often faster
(therefore less frustrating).

 CET's gopher is called <gopher://gopher.eunet.cz>.

 HIX documents from the archives of hix.mit.edu are available via the
(Unix) 'finger' protocol. Try 'finger ' to see how it
works.  This may be the easiest and fastest access from some sites.

 There is an electronic library at
<gopher://gopher.bke.hu:71/11/elibhu/> (notice the non-standard port)
that has much Hungarian text material, including some classical
poetry.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 3.3  ARENA

 An interactive chat service of HIX, run by the Hungary.Network.
Similar to IRC, but it does NOT require any client software. Simply
<telnet:hix.hungary.com> and you are there.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4. THE NET IN HUNGARY

 Overview: historically, ELLA was the first home-grown X.25
email-system in Hungary. It survives till this very day. EARN was next,
with its BITNET-like infrastructure (4.1). Full Internet connectivity
is provided by HUNGARNET (see 4.2), which really comprises all
academic, research and public non-profit sites.

 Here's a partial list of its domain names:

bme.hu          Technical University of Budapest
sztaki.hu       Computer and Automation Research Institute, Budapest 
elte.hu         Roland Eotvos University of Sciences, Budapest
bke.hu          Budapest University of Economic Sciences
sote.hu         Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
abc.hu          Agricultural Biotechnology Center, Godollo 
gau.hu          Godollo Agricultural University, Godollo
klte.hu         Kossuth Lajos University of Sciences, Debrecen
jpte.hu         Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
u-szeged.hu     Members of the Szeged University Association
bgytf.hu        Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College
uni-miskolc.hu  University of Miskolc
kfki.hu         Central research Inst. of Physics, Budapest 
vein.hu         University of Veszprem, Veszprem
bdtf.hu         Berzsenyi College, Szombathely
szif.hu         Szechenyi Istvan College, Gyor
blki.hu         Balaton Limnological Res. Inst. of Hung. Acad. Sci.

A schematic map of its topology ('HBONE'):

EBONE    EMPB                          EMPB   EBONE

  ^       ^                             ^       ^
  |       |                             |       |
  |       |   Microwave center ======= IIF Center ------- Miskolci Egyetem
  |       |      Budapest            /   Budapest            Miskolc
  |       |    //  ||    \\         /   //   |
  |       |   //   ||     MTA-KFKI /   //    L--------------- BGYTF
  |       |  //   MBK     Budapest    //     |             Nyiregyhaza
  |       | //   Godollo             //      |
  |      BME              MTA-SzTAKI//       L--------------- KLTE
  |    Budapest ########## Budapest          |              Debrecen
  |      ***                                 |
  |      ***                                 L--------------- GAMF
  L------BKE                                 |              Kecskemet
       Budapest                              |
          #    \                             L---------- Veszpremi Egyetem
          #     \                            |              Veszprem
         ELTE    \                           |
       Budapest   JATE                       L--------------- JPTE
                 Szeged                                       Pecs

 LEGEND

 ***  100 Mbps FDDI
  #    10 Mbps optical cable (Ethernet)
  =     2 Mbps microwave
  |    64 kbps leased line (that's 0.064 Mbps)

Source: HUNGARNET/NIIF (URL <http://www.iif.hu/hungarnet.html>;)

 FidoNet is described in section 4.3, and commercial
networks/email/Internet Providers demand a separate document
('commercial.FAQ'), also see <http://www.sztaki.hu/providers/>;.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.1  BITNET/HUEARN

 What follows is a listing of all EARN nodes in Hungary, with contact
info.  This information is also available on the following gopher:
	 <gopher://cc1.kuleuven.ac.be/11/nodeearn/hungary.helpnode>.

HUBIIF11 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                      
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : hubiif11.sztaki.hu                   
      User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBIIF61 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                    
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : mars.iif.hu                          
      User Info: Istvan ;+36 1 1665644
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBME11  Technical University of Budapest
     Technical University;of Budapest;Muegyetem rkp 9. R. ep;H-1111
     Budapest, Hungary           
     Internet address : atlantis.bme.hu                      
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 4632422               
     Fax : +36 1 1665711             

HUBME51  Technical University of Budapest                                  
     Technical University;Muegytem Rakpart 9;H-1111 Budapest               
     Internet address : bmeik.eik.bme.hu                     
     User Info: Laszlo ;+36 1 1812172                 
     Phone : +36 1 1812172            ; Fax : +36 1 1166711             

HUBPSZ12 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                  
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hubpsz12.sztaki.hu                   ;
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBPSZ61 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             

HUBPSZ62 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of
     Sciences;Lagymanyosi ut 11;1111 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUEARN   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary               
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : huearn.sztaki.hu                     ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 2698286                   
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUECO    University of Economic Sciences Budapest, Hungary                 
     University of Economic Sci;Computer Center;Kinizsi u 1-7;1092 Budapest
     Internet address : ursus.bke.hu                         ;
     User Info: Robert ;+36 1 1175224                    
     Phone : +36 1 1181317            ; Fax : +36 1 1175224             

HUELLA   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary           
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Node admin: Gizella ;+36 1 1497986                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGBOX   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary            
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hugbox.sztaki.hu                    ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 1497532                
     Phone : +36 1 1497532            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGIRK51 University of Agriculture Sciences
     University of Agriculture;Pater Karoly ut 1;H-2103 Godollo
     Internet address : vax.gau.hu                           ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 28 30200 -1015              
     Phone : +36 28 30200 -1015       ; Fax : +36 28 20804              

HUKLTEDR Kossuth Lajos University Debrecen, Hungary                       
     Internet address : dragon.klte.hu                       ;
     User Info: Robert                           

HUKLTE51 Kossuth Lajos University, Debrecen                                 
     Kossuth Lajos University;Egyetem Ter 1; PF. 58;H-4010 Debrecen        
     Internet address : huni7.cic.klte.hu                    ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 52 18800                      
     Phone : +36 52 18800             ; Fax : +36 52 16783              

HUSOTE51 University of Medical Science Budapest, Hungary                   
     University of Medical Science;SOTE;Ulloi u. 26.;1085 Budapest         
     Internet address : janus.sote.hu                        ;
     User Info: Gabor ;+36 1 1141705                 
     Phone : +36 1 1141705            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866

HUSZEG11 Jozsef Attila University, Szeged, Hungary                         
     Jozsef Attila University;Computer Centre;Arpad ter 2.;H-6720
     Szeged;Hungary                
     User Info: Ferenc ;+36 62 321022
     Miklos ;+36  
     Phone : +36 62 321022            ; Fax : +36 62 322227             

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.2  HUNGARIAN ACADEMIC AND RESEARCH NETWORK (HUNGARNET)

 This information is also available on
<http://www.ripe.net/ripe/hungarnet.html>;.

Organisational Structure: 
 HUNGARNET is an association and also the computer network of Hungarian
institutes of higher education, research and development, libraries and
other public collections. HUNGARNET funding comes from the R&D
Information Infrastructure Program (IIF) sponsored by the Hungarian
Academy of Science, the National Committee of Technological
Development, the Ministry for Culture and Education and the National
Science Foundation. About 500 organizations have access to HUNGARNET
services. HUNGARNET as an association represents Hungary in
international networking organizations (e.g. TERENA).

Generic Services:
 HUNGARNET provides access to the Internet and several other national
network services over leased lines and the public packet switched data
network. Lot of different services (e.g. gopher, ftp, WWW, data bases)
provided by member organizations are available on the net. Centrally
supported and coordinated services are:
 - email (internet SMPT, EARN BSMTP, OSI X.400, UUCP, XXX ELLA) 
 - email gateways between the different email systems above 
 - distribution services (LISTSERV, news) 
 - information services (ftp, gopher, WWW servers, data bases) 
 - directory services (X.500) 
 - individual accounts and login

External Connectivity:  
 HUNGARNET is subscriber to EBONE and EMPB/EuropaNET as well. There are
two 64 kbps leased lines to EBONE (Vienna EBS). These two lines should
be upgraded to a single 256 kbps line in the near future.  HUNGARNET
uses two 64 kbps interfaces on the EMPB/EuropaNET node in Budapest as
well. These two interfaces should also be upgraded to a single 256 kbps
interface very soon.

Internal Connectivity: 
 Internal connectivity of HUNGARNET is based partly on the public X.25
service of the Hungarian PTT and partly on the community's private IP
backbone network (HBONE). The kernel of the HBONE infrastructure is in
Budapest, where several important organizations are connected in
different ways (64-256 kbps leased lines, 1-2 Mbps microwave links, 10
Mbps optical Ethernet, 100 Mbps FDDI). Several cities (regional
centers) in the country are also connected to the network via 64 kbps
leased lines (Miskolc, Nyiregyhaza, Debrecen, Kecskemet, Szeged, Pecs,
Veszprem) and 2 Mbps microwave (Godollo). Now there are about 50
organizations directly connected to the backbone and about 50 others
using IP over X.25. The number of the registered, connected hosts is
about ten thousand. There is an ongoing development, new regional
centers (Kaposvar, Keszthely, Szombathely, Sopron, Gyor) and several
organizations in Budapest will be connected subsequently.  Many users
do not have IP connectivity yet but are connected to the public X.25
network. There are several services (e.g. individual login, mail,
gopher, news) that are open for traditional XXX/X.25 access.

Contact Persons:
Miklos NAGY <mailto:> - head of the HUNGARNET/IIF 
					coordination office
Laszlo CSABA <mailto:> - HUNGARNET/IIF technical director
Balazs MARTOS <mailto:> - HBONE project manager
Nandor HORVATH <mailto:> - Local Internet Registry, 
				.hu top level domain contact
IP address and domain administration: <mailto:> 
Network management: <mailto:>

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.3  FidoNet

 FidoNet connects through sztaki.hu, as indicated above.

 There are three FidoNet nodes: Budapest NET (2:371/0); West Hungary
Net (2:372/0); and Tisza NET (2:370/0). If you want to write on the
FidoNet, chances are you already know how. *PLEASE* find out what you
are about to do instead of experimenting with the Hungarian net - don't
add to the problems for the folks in Hungary having to deal with the
underdeveloped phone system and outrageous international tolls ;-<. For
further information I post a Fido-sheet separately from this FAQ, where
there are also telephone numbers and further addresses, but again: try
to verify that you are mailing to a valid address (the BBS situation
may have changed since the copy you are reading got updated - look for
current FIDO listing on the net, or better yet contact the person you
want to reach by other means first)!. If you can send Internet email
and have the FidoNet address, you can write to it by transforming it to
appropriate .FIDONET.ORG format.

 Fidonet mail works with Hungarian BBS's but you have to know whom to
reach. I will attempt to maintain a separate Fido posting to Usenet;
please try to make sure you email to a valid address and in particular
avoid using outdated sources on Hungarian BBS's (otherwise your
misdirected trial will burden the Hungarian network coordinator!).

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.4  Finding out somebody's email-address in Hungary

 The bigger academic domains have on-line directories (CSO phonebooks):

Technical University, Budapest
      gopher://goliat.eik.bme.hu/11/engl/tel-adat/hazi-tele

Budapest University of Economic Sciences*
      gopher://URSUS.BKE.HU:71/11/kozgaz/telefon
(*under construction)

Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
      <gopher://xenia.sote.hu:105/2>

Central Research Inst. of Physics, Budapest
      <gopher://sunserv.kfki.hu:105/2>

Members of the Szeged University Association
      <gopher://sol.cc.u-szeged.hu:105/2>

Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
      <gopher://ipiux.jpte.hu:1051/2>
	<http://ipisun.jpte.hu/cgi-bin/ph.pl>;

University of Veszprem
      <gopher://miat0.vein.hu:105/2>

 ELLA also has an on-line directory: <telnet://hugbox.sztaki.hu:203>
(i.e. address a special port). Note that the opening screen uses
special characters for the accented letters but the data records have
combinations of vowel plus ',: or " instead (i.e. searching for
hollo'si would retrieve a record, but hollosi won't)!

 If the person has registered him/herself with the RaDir database of
HIX, you might try the following (note, however, that most parts of
RaDir are badly out of date):

 - by <gopher://hix.mit.edu/11/HIX/radir> (a link to the same is
offered by <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/>; on the World Wide Web); from
inside Hungary use <gopher://hix.elte.hu/11/HIX/HIX/radir>, or
<http://hal9000.elte.hu/hix/radir.html>; (this last one is a true HTML
search form)). Under RaDir, you'll find the entire database
cross-indexed by search keys.

 - by 'finger +whois:"SEARCHWORD"@hix.mit.edu' you can look up records
containing "SEARCHWORD" string in the database

 - by email: send a blank message <mailto:>. You'll
receive, in several chunks, the entire database of users, their
electronic and snail-mail addresses, etc. You'll need a decent editor
to search what you're looking for.

 If you have some idea what institution to check at, you may find an
online directory service -- many are available, and could be reached
through the Hungarian gophers (or WWW sites) mentioned in section 3.
Try contacting the (electronic) postmaster, usually
, or using 'finger' to inquire about users.

 As a last resort, send in your query to a discussion group. Readers of
<news:soc.culture.magyar>, <mailto:> discussion
list (section 1.7), or some HIX-list (<mailto:> in
particular, see 2.1) may be able to help. Be aware, though, that most
participants are located abroad - especially in the case of the Usenet
group!

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.  ODDS AND ENDS

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary

 The electricity is 220 V, 50 Hz. The frequency, in fact, fluctuates a
lot, but it doesn't cause any problem when operating computer devices.
(Don't trust too much your plug-in clock radios though.) If you are
from any country running on 110 V or around, due to complications in
voltage conversion, a battery driven laptop or notebook is your best
bet. However, if you decide to take your desktop system, printer, etc.,
you  have a good chance that the device can also be operated on 220 V.
Check it first before you go through unnecessary trouble. If not, you
have to apply 220 V to 110 V AC converters (you might need more than
one; check the power ratings of your devices & converters). WARNING!
Your converters should be designed for *electronic/motorized devices*.
Refuse any converter for *heating appliances* even if its power rating
is much higher! These converters are not real transformers, and can
cause major damages to your electronic devices.

 Also make sure you are able to connect to the Hungarian grounded power
outlet, because that's what's recommended for your appliances.
Therefore you should try to find grounded plug adapters and/or voltage
converters.  Connecting to ungrounded outlets causes possibly no harm,
but for your own & your devices' safety grounded connections should be
preferred.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2  Conventions & standards for coding Hungarian accents

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.0 Introduction & section overview  

 During the evolution of teletypes and computers, two character tables
survived, acquiring major importance in later computer systems. One is
EBCDIC, primarily used in ancient IBM mainframes. The other one, ASCII,
can be considered today's ubiquitous standard in computing worldwide.
The rest of this section, therefore, pays attention to ASCII code, very
unfairly ignoring EBCDIC, since none of the accent conversion programs
support neither this code table nor the CMS environment.

 Since the language of computing has been English from the beginning,
the original ASCII table was limited to the characters used in English:
letters of the Latin alphabet, a few punctuation marks and some other
special symbols. Since the number of all these characters, plus the
unprintable "control" characters (located in the first 32 positions of
the ASCII table, responsible for different control functions) doesn't
exceed 128, the real 'brilliant' idea of representing the ASCII table
in 7 bits spread like wild fire all over the computer world. No wonder,
that most of the Internet mailers and Usenet hubs are also set up to
forward documents in 7-bit ASCII only.  (Read the rest of the section
carefully to learn how to overcome these problems.) As computing and
word processing started to rise up in the rest of the world, there was
an increasing demand to represent these national characters as well. (A
good example is Hungarian. The extra consonants [nonexistent in
English] are formed by merely juxtaposing 2 (or 3 in case of dzs)
regular Latin characters; so there is no problem here.  However, the
special vowels of the language are denoted by applying different
accents on the Latin 'base-vowel', introducing new characters, the so
called accented vowels.) It's an obvious idea to place these national
characters and other fancy symbols utilizing codes 128 to 255, still
remaining within the byte limit. Different character sets have been
created by defining purpose- or language-specific characters for the
upper half of the table, while keeping the 7-bit ASCII codes unchanged.
(Note:  Some character sets also re-use codes between 0 and 31, the
domain of ASCII control characters, keeping some, or none of them.
Using these codes, however, is pretty difficult, device- and
implementation-dependent, etc.  Therefore it wouldn't be wise to put
accented characters here, but fortunately none of the sets listed below
did it actually.) Hopefully Unicode will ultimately stop this
confusion, but until then there's a long long way to go.

At this point let's clarify the terminology:

... ASCII (also 7-bit or plain ASCII) data:
Usually text (but not necessarily, see 5.2.5.1.), containing only 7-bit
ASCII characters, including the control ones.
... 8-bit (extended) ASCII data:
Text containing the uniform 7-bit ASCII characters, plus special
characters (with code greater than 127) according to one of the 8-bit
character sets.
... Binary data:
Non-text data (executables, pictures, etc.) containing any 8-bit value.

 The different kludges accepted by Internet users to denote accented
vowels in 7-bit ASCII are described in 5.2.1. The most important
extended ASCII character sets are introduced in 5.2.2. 5.2.3 shows the
accented character representations used by high-level formatting
languages. The correct ways of transferring files among word processor
[on the Net] are detailed in 5.2.4. If the data to be transferred is
not 7-bit ASCII, 5.2.5 tells you what to do. Last, but not least, 5.2.6
introduces the programs in the HIX archives (and mentions some others)
that address the problem of conversion between the various types of
accent representation.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.1 House rules for plain (7-bit) ASCII

 If you are limited to the use of 7-bit ASCII, you have essentially the
following choices to deal with the accented characters:

5.2.1.0 No accent marks at all

 Simple and sure-fire. In fact, the most common 'solution'.

5.2.1.1 The '~" coding (also called "marking notation" or "Babai-code")
        [Sometimes nicknamed as _repu~lo"_.]

 Here's a sample:

         O~t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu~nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu~ko~rfu'ro'ge'p
         O~t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru~lt i'ro't nyu'z

or, in the alternative ':" _repu:lo"_ format:

         O:t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu:nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu:ko:rfu'ro'ge'p
         O:t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru:lt i'ro't nyu'z

 Quite readable, though a bit tricky to disambiguate mechanically:
remember, the " or : or ' may also serve as punctuation marks. (This
problem can be handled using Maxent's escaping capabilities, see
5.2.6.6.)

Warning! Don't get confused: in TeX (see 5.2.3.1) " denotes umlaut!

5.2.1.2 The 123 coding (also "numerical notation" or "Pro1sze1ky-code")

 Here's the same text:

         O2t hu3to3ha1zbo1l ke1rtu2nk szi1nhu1st
         a1rvi1ztu3ro3 tu2ko2rfu1ro1ge1p
         O2t sze1p szu3zla1ny o3ru2lt i1ro1t nyu1z

 The only one that's both short and unambiguous, though it takes some
getting used to. 1 stands for the stroke, 2 for the short umlaut, 3 for
the 'Hungarian' or long umlaut (double acute). Very easily converted to
other formats. (Also can be ambiguous, though with much smaller
probability. E.g. U2, CO2, , etc.)

5.2.1.3 Telegraphic style. For example,

         Oet huetoehaazbool keertuenk sziinhuust
         aarviiztueroe tuekoerfuuroogeep
         Oet szeep szuezlaany oeruelt iiroot nyuuz

 Avoid it like the plague because

1. It's ambiguous. (Think of Goethe, Oetker, Eoersi, Csooori, poeen.) 
2. Coding of o" & u" (o3 & u3) is not consistent:
   u3 = ue (fallback to u2), uue, uee, ueue
3. Absolutely not a pleasure to read.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.2 Fancy 8-bit character sets (extended ASCII)

 The following rollcall lists the most important character sets
supported by the majority of hardware and software, including the
accent conversion programs. The available Hungarian accented characters
are detailed for each set.

Notes: 

 Henceforth when referring to an accented character, the numerical
(Pro1sze1ki) notation will be used to maintain clarity.


5.2.2.1 PC-codepages

(*) PC-437: Hardware

 The basic hardware character set of PC-compatible systems. Since it
was supposed to contain many symbols (line drawing characters, some
Greek letters, etc.), and be general, it's pretty poor in terms of
accented characters. Missing Hungarian vowels: o3, u3 [substitute them
with o^ & u^], A1 [substitute it with A-circle], I1, O1, O3, U1, U3.

(*) CWI recommendation for Hungarian accents:

A standard initiative to replace the many house rules of character code
assignment for accents unavailable in PC-437. Codes are assigned as
follows:

o3->147 [o^], u3->150 [u^], A1->143, I1->141 [i`] or 140 [I^],
O1->149 [o`], O3->167, U1->151 [u`], U3->153 [y~]

(*) PC-850: Multilingual

Contains all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.
Note: ? means o, u, O or U.

(*) PC-852: Latin 2

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

(*) PC-860: Portuguese
(*) PC-863: Canadian-French
(*) PC-865: Nordic

These sets miss various Hungarian accents, esp. in upper case. Using
them for a Hungarian text makes absolutely no sense.

5.2.2.2 ISO character sets

 These character sets are specified by ISO standards. As far as ALL
(not only Hungarian) accented vowels concerned, ISO 8859/1, 2 & 9 is
equivalent to Windows Latin 1, 2 & 5 respectively.

(*) ISO 8859/1:
(*) ISO 8859/3:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

(*) ISO 8859/2:

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

 Fonts for iso-8859-2 (and some other) character sets can be found at
<ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/font/> for various operation systems, and at
<ftp://almos.vein.hu/ssa/kbd_es_font/> (mirrored at
<ftp://ftp.vma.bme.hu/pub/ssa/kbd_es_font/> and
<ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/ssa/kbd_es_font/>) mostly for Unix. There is
material for Hungarianizing the Linux (and possibly other Unix variant)
operation system at <ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/magyar/linux/>.

5.2.2.3 Others

The following character sets are supported by various laser printers. 
Roman-8 bears special importance as being the default character set of
many printers.

(*) Ventura International & Roman-8:
(*) MC Text:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.3 Text formatting languages

 The text formatting languages listed below, beyond their powerful text
formatting capabilities, also include the specification of [almost] all
the accented characters. These languages give an alternative way of
dealing with accents in 7-bit ASCII, especially if the software that
can display, print or convert these representations is available.
[Unlike notations in 5.2.1, the "raw" files of these languages are not
intended to be read by ordinary users.]

5.2.3.1 [La]TeX. 

 Invented by D. E. Knuth, TeX (pronounce as [tech]; 'X' denotes the
Greek letter 'chi'), and the macro collection based on it, LaTeX, are
today's most popular text formatting languages for document creation
and DTP.

To continue with the same example,

 \"{O}t h\H{u}t\H{o}h\'{a}zb\'{o}l k\'{e}rt\"{u}nk sz\'{\i}nh\'{u}st

 \'{a}rv\'{\i}zt\H{u}r\H{o} t\"{u}k\"{o}rf\'{u}r\'{o}g\'{e}p

 \"{O}t sz\'{e}p sz\H{u}zl\'{a}ny \H{o}r\"{u}lt \'{i}r\'{o}t ny\'{u}z

 This is meant to be printed with TeX or previewed as a dvi file.
 Wholly unambiguous, can be automatically converted to/from several
other formats (see 5.2.6). Also check the babel system for LaTeX with
the Hungarian specific option, available from FTP sites kth.se or
goya.dit.upm.es.

5.2.3.2 HTML (HyperText Markup Language)

 Unfortunately, the HTML-2 standard still does not contain notation for
Hungarumlaut (long umlaut, double acute). We use tilde or circumflex
instead. The preferred notation is o with tilde õ and u with
circumflex û. In the example above,

   Öt hûtõházból kértünk
   színhúst

   árvíztûrõ
   tükörfúrógép

   Öt szép szûzlány õrült
   írót nyúz

5.2.3.3 RTF (Rich Text Format)

 This standard is widespread among Microsoft word processors. For
non-ASCII characters it uses the following coding:

\'XX

where XX is the code of the given ISO 8859/2 (or PC-852 for Word for
DOS) character in hexadecimal.

5.2.3.4 Adobe PostScript

 It is a universal standard for describing any kind of graphics,
including fonts, but it is aimed at producing the final (typically
printed) copy of documents and not at word-processing per se. For a
starter document see <http://www.adobe.com/PS/PS-QA.html>; or
<ftp://wilma.cs.brown.edu/pub/comp.lang.postscript/FAQ.txt> or
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.answers/postscript/faq/part1-4>.
If one has the right accented fonts sets then, in theory, the output is
transferable between different machines - but often we run into hurdles
in practice.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.4 Microcomputer products: The word processors 

 Different word processors on different microcomputers use several
proprietary internal control sequences to handle accented characters,
as much as other symbols, and other text formatting commands. If you
want to transfer a document like this, you have to convert this [very
probably] binary file (8-bit ASCII with all kinds of binary crap) to
text (7-bit ASCII), see 5.2.5.1, unless your mailer can handle binary
directly, see 5.2.5.2. Make sure, however, that the recipient of your
document also possesses the same or equivalent word processor, or a
word processor supporting the format you used.

 It might happen that you want to use your document in another word
processing system, or a plain text editor. Today's word processors
offer conversion to a few formats, and also pure text with different
character sets (5.2.2). The resulting file, if necessary, can be
converted further to 7-bit ASCII as shown in 5.2.6. (The output is
already 7-bit ASCII in Microsoft's RTF, see 5.2.3.3.)

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.5 Switching binary to ASCII and vice versa

5.2.5.1 Uuencode & uudecode

 The easiest and most popular way of conversion between binary and
ASCII is the use of the twin sisters uuencode and uudecode. These
programs were created originally for Unix ('uu' stands for Unix to
Unix), but today they are implemented under most platforms.

 Uuencode makes an ASCII file out of a binary one, forming 61 character
long lines to avoid problems excessively long lines can cause in the
different mailer agents. This conversion increases the size of the file
by 40%.  Warning! Understand the really goofy usage of uuencode. The
parameters specify the local & remote BINARY filenames respectively.
The encoded ASCII result is sent to the standard output, it has to be
redirected into a file explicitly. (E.g. uuencode myface.gif myface.gif
> myface.uue )

 Uudecode converts the encoded ASCII file back to binary. It is smart:
using the "begin" and "end" tags placed in the encoded file, uudecode
is able to retrieve the encoded information automatically discarding
everything before and after the tags (headers, signatures, other junk),
even if it's inserted in the middle of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Its
usage is also simple: only the input filename has to be specified; the
original filename is restored from the "begin" tag. (E.g. uudecode
yourface.mal )

5.2.5.2 MIME support

 Many modern mailers support the MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail
Extensions) standard being able to transfer different file formats
beyond plain text. In this case the ASCII/binary conversion is the
mailer's internal affair. Some mailers make explicit calls to uuencode
and uudecode, some others (e.g. PINE) have different built in
conversion algorithms, trying to choose the most appropriate one for
the given binary file. (One type of MIME encoding substitutes an
unprintable character by its code in hexadecimal, preceded by an =
sign. That's why you often see them splattered around.) In either case,
however, the user is not responsible for the conversion, the mailer
takes care of it automatically.

5.2.5.3 Binhex

 BinHex files are 7-bit ASCII text files, typically used for encoding
Macintosh binaries. Conversion is done by various applications, see eg.
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.answers/macintosh/general-faq>.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.6 Translating between various accent formats

 From the HIX archives (see section 3) the following programs are
available.  The regular location is 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/info/programs/>;, though
you should also check <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/>; 
for updates. At the time of this writing the SENDDOC archive is 
extremely ill-organized and outdated in many parts, including, 
unfortunately, the 'new' directory.

 Warning! From abroad always access the HIX archives via 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/>;,
<gopher://hix.mit.edu/11/HIX/senddoc>,
<mailto:>, or 'finger '
(the latter only works for text, and you may have to redirect it to a
pager or file). The mirror at <gopher://hix.elte.hu> is updated only at
certain periods of time, also there is a limited bandwidth on the lines
connecting Hungary to the world (see section 4).

5.2.6.1 ekezettelenites

 Gabor Toth's UNIX shell script for deleting unwanted accents from mail
files.

5.2.6.2 etex

 Gabor Toth's shareware C source code for converting the marking or
numerical accent notation to TeX-format. It also claims to be capable
of hyphenation. Supports the UNIX platform.

5.2.6.3 hion

 Peter Verhas's C source code. It's an improved version of etex, as it
reduces the probability of incorrect hyphenation with some built-in
exception library. Hion is able to do the conversion between the
numerical (or, redefining each accent mark, also the marking) accent
notation & TeX-format, and remove accents if the input is an accent
notation. Read his documentation. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS,
UNIX. Available from <ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/magyar/TeX/hion.tar.gz>
or <ftp://ftp.digital.bme.hu/hion/>.

5.2.6.4 drtc.c

 Peter Verhas's freeware C source for conversion between text and RTF
(Rich Text Format), character sets ISO 8852/2 (Latin 2), PC-852 (Latin
2) and CWI. The program attempts to find out the inbound format
automatically, RTF or text as well as used character set. The outbound
format is the same as the inbound format, the program changes only the
character set. In other words, the program does not convert from RTF ot
text or from text to RTF. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS, & UNIX and
other platforms supporting ANSI C.

5.2.6.5 hun.c

 Gabor Ligeti's freeware C source code for accent removal and
conversion between the marking & numerical accent notation, TeX-format
and PC-852 (Latin 2) codepage. Warning! Conversion capabilities are not
orthogonal, type hun /? for the supported conversions. No platform
limitations are indicated.

5.2.6.6 MAXENT.UUE_V6.0a

 Peter Csaszar's freeware C source code compressed with pkzip & encoded
with uuencode (see 5.2.5.1). Warning! As of 6/12/95, the HIX gopher's
/HIX/SENDDOC/info/programs directory still contains 'maxent.c', the
very old version V1.4 of Maxent. Don't touch this file, go for version
V6.0a, currently in <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/MAXENT.Z>;.

 Maxent provides 100% orthogonality in conversion between any of the
accent notations listed in 5.2.1 but telegraphic style, and any of the
character sets listed in 5.2.2, allowing multiple notations in the
input file. The domain of conversion includes 6 vowels and 6 accent
types, applying therefore a house rule extension of the marking and
numerical accent notations. (Hoping that this extension becomes widely
accepted, no longer remaining a house rule.) Language accent profiles
other than the default Hungarian can be selected. Further accent
services include accent notation escaping & de-escaping (see 5.2.1.1),
and flexible substitution of the o3 etc. characters.

 Beyond some little services, the rest of the major features provide
comprehensive retabulation strategies, full newline conversion
capabilities and script file execution (ideal for maintaining mail
folders after download).

 The help given by the program can be saved into a file by typing
maxent -h0 > maxent.hlp . Print this file for fancy bedtime reading.

 Maxent supports only the MS-DOS environment, and should be compiled by
a Borland C compiler. This is the sacrifice for the extensive services
provided.

5.2.6.7 ekezet.dot

 Via anonymous <ftp://bme-tel.ttt.bme.hu/pub/income/ekezetes/>, you can
find Kornel Umann's WinWord template capable of many kinds of
conversion.  Also find other goodies in the directory above.

5.2.6.8 hixiso

 Olivier Clary's Unix scripts for converting accented text appearing
on HIX are at <ftp://almos.vein.hu/ssa/kbd_es_font/hixiso.tar.gz>.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject:  5.3 Information sources pertaining to the rest of Central Europe

 This section is by no means to be comprehensive. For a big but dated
(1992) list see
<gopher://poniecki.berkeley.edu/00/archives/polish.archives/Network/EE-MotherLi
st>.

 Both OMRI and CET cover the general region in their news. See Section
1.1 and 1.2, respectively.

 To complement the HUNGARY list (see Section 1.7), at the same listserv
at Buffalo there exist the Middle European discussion list MIDEUR-L as
well as POLAND-L and SLOVAK-L. Send the usual command to
<mailto:> (or simply  on
BITNET):

      SUBSCRIBE listname-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname.

 On Usenet there is soc.culture.romanian, soc.culture.czecho-slovak,
soc.culture.polish, and the gatewayed bit.listserv.mideur-l and
bit.listserv.slovak-l; bit.listserv.hungary has been established, but
many sites do not have it. The surest way to receive everything is via
email. If you prefer using Usenet newsreaders you find HIX's HUNGARY
digests posted to soc.culture.magyar (which group does not seem to
suffer the poor propagation affecting some of the bit.listserv
groups).  Please notice that while the listserv groups are
bi-directionally gatewayed, i.e. posts to them get propagated back to
the original mailing list, the posts coming from HIX to
soc.culture.magyar are mere copies of the mailing list messages - do
not reply to the newgroups since your answer won't reach the email
readers (who constitute a likely large majority).

 Speaking of limitations of distribution be aware that some commercial
Internet connection providers (most blatantly American Online)
established their own groups with topics overlapping existing Usenet
hierarchy. The utility of these local groups is seriously limited since
they are, unlike the open real Usenet newsgroups such as those
mentioned above, unavailable to anyone but their own subscribers (i.e.
a small domestic fraction of all the Internet/Usenet users worldwide).
Please do not post to non-local groups saying how nice would be to use
these specialized forums - we can not. Use the newsgroup
soc.culture.magyar or the mailing lists!

 The Central European Regional Research Organization (CERRO) can be
joined at <mailto:> with the command
SUBSCRIBE CERRO-L Firstname Lastname.  This is a scholarly group that
deposits papers and the like in an electronic archive in Vienna.  The
archive is accessible with anonymous <ftp://wu-wien.ac.at>, or with
<gopher://gopher.wu-wien.ac.at>.

 The Eastern Europe Business Network ) is
primarily remarkable for its size (1700+ subscribers). Messages tend to
be brief bursts of announcements, questions and, unsurprisingly, calls
for or queries about business. The list is administered by Yale's Civic
Education Project (Chris Owen, <mailto:>). To
subscribe, send a message to the address
<mailto:> that has

             subscribe e-europe YourFirstName YourLastName
in its body.

 The repository for Voice of America material, accessible with
<gopher://gopher.voa.gov>, also contains some information and news
items relevant to the region.

 Check the NATO archive for goodies: <gopher://gopher.nato.int>.

 The Slovakia Document Store will answer all your questions about
Slovakia:  on the World Wide Web, <http://www.eunet.sk>;, via
<gopher://gopher.eunet.sk>, via <ftp://ftp.eunet.sk/slovakia/>, via
gophermail: send a message with Subject: HELP
<mailto:>.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 6.  CONTRIBUTORS TO THIS FAQ

(the order is alphabetical by last name)

Beke Tibor     <mailto:>           general layout, 2.1, 5.3
Bruner, Rick   <mailto:>     1.3
Csaszar Peter  <mailto:>   5.1, 5.2
Fabian Peter   <mailto:> 3.1, 4.1, 4.4
Fekete Zoli    <mailto:>           much of the rest
Hewes, Cameron <mailto:>      1.2
Hollo Kriszta  <mailto:>         4.2
Saghi-Szabo Gotthard <mailto:>, section 1.8
Toth, Joseph   <mailto:>, section 2.3
Umann Kornel   <mailto:>        5.2
Varnum, Ken    <mailto:>       1.1

 If you have a question or remark regarding some specific section, you
may want to contact its author. The FAQ as such continues to be
maintained by Zoli Fekete <mailto:>. The keeper hereby
expresses the many thanks we all owe to every contributor - and above
all to Tibor Beke who brought about this cooperative effort, and took
upon consolidating the whole (with Peter Csaszar who took over the
next-to-last editing). Still, any errors (with the exception of the
independently maintained section 2.3) are the responsibility of Zoli -
who'd like to hear all corrections, recommendations or just comments
readers may have!
 Acknowledgement is also due here to Jozsef Hollosi and Arpad Palotas,
for providing webspace to this FAQ on the HIX server and helping to
improve its homepage, respectively.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

 One of these days ;-) there will be a guide here about how to handle
all the strange things that you may see embedded in this text; but in
the meantime, if you don't know yet what URLs are and are not reading a
copy thru a WWW browser that may show a selectable link: just do the
sensible thing and use email to access 'mailto:' addresses, ftp for
'ftp:' and telnet for 'telnet:'...

 Updated versions of this document will be in
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/posted>;
or <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq>. Notice
that the canonical Usenet archive <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu> is often
overloaded - if you can't get connected try one of the mirror sites (of
which a list by countries can be found in
<ftp://mirrors.aol.com/pub/rtfm/usenet/news.answers/news-answers/introduction>
that is also available thru the RTFM mail-server shown below) - eg.
<ftp://mirrors.aol.com/pub/rtfm/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq> in
the USA! You can also retrieve it via <mailto:>
with the command "send usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq" in the body
of the message, or via 'finger '.
 A brief extract of hungarian-faq, concentrating on the email services,
is also available now
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq-pointer>; or 
'finger '.
 A separate document on network service providers in Hungary
prepared independently by John Horvath <mailto:> is
available via email from its author or via
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/comm-providers>;.

 This hungarian-faq is expected to be updated at least every couple of
months, due to the rapid changes occuring on the net. If you are
reading a copy whose 'Last-modified:' date shown on top is older than
that then many parts may be out of date - in this case get the recent
one from the sources listed above, and/or try to convince the
administrator of the site keeping the old copy to freshen it. Please
notice that retrieving from the Usenet archives is likely a lot faster
than asking me personally (and most everything I can answer is already
in here)! If you do write me <mailto:>, then give a
descriptive 'Subject:' line - keep in mind that much of my incoming
email deemed unworthy by me is deleted unread in order to keep up with
the high volume I am receiving (most of it from various mailing
lists). The best way to ensure catching my attention - and to allow
automatized pre-processing - is to start it with 'ZFIX:' (the name my
mail-handler answers to is Zophisticated Free Information eXchange, in
case you were wondering :-)).

 This work as a collection is copyright (1990-96) Zoli Fekete, and
parts are copyright of their respective authors. Please do not
redistribute substantial portions without contacting the maintainer.
 Since February 14, 1996 this document is authenticated 
by my secure public-key encrypted electronic signature 
(see <http://www.ifi.uio.no/pgp>; for details), 
 the public key for which is shown in the WWW link 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/pgp-key.asc>; 
and is also attached to the end of the text available via
 'finger '!
 Unauthorized publishing in off-line media - such as printed, CD-ROM or 
magnetic databases - is explicitly prohibited!  

Archive-name: hungarian/faq
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: faq
Last-modified: 1996/02/14
Version: 1.41
Posting-Frequency: every fifteen days
- - - --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 

SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

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