Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: They are starting it already (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
2 New, 70K web page for gypsy forger Nikki Sandru (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
3 Ferenc Deak. (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
4 Hungarian electronic resources FAQ (mind)  1520 sor     (cikkei)
5 Mulroney (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
6 Hung. Lit. at MLA in Washington, D.C. (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Will aol honor "magyar s" request to Censor Senate (mind)  64 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: California scholars discover language is all Geneti (mind)  55 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Mulroney (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Ferenc Deak. (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
11 Check http://ld.net/?synapse for the best Int l phone r (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Ordinary Magyars - US Racial Dictionary (mind)  348 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Ordinary Magyars - US Racial Dictionary (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: Mulroney (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: translation help!! (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
16 Thank you for the translation!!! (mind)  4 sor     (cikkei)
17 Csalad - Family (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: New, 70K web page for gypsy forger Nikki Sandru (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: Mulroney (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: Finnish related to Turkish? (mind)  51 sor     (cikkei)
21 Sailing Adventures in Canada! (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: They are starting it already (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 22 Dec 1996  wrote:

> >...
> > poo, poo, poo
> This is how they started soon after the '89 December revolution and in 3
> months it ended in bloody clashes.  For these guys signing of the basic
> treaty means nothing.  Even if they were the ones most insisting on it.
> Joe Pannon

Yes Panonica sweet cheeks, but some of your respectable Hungarian
parliamentarians are just as willing to bail out of the basic treaty !

Let's say that we all have our trash...

m. cristian
+ - New, 70K web page for gypsy forger Nikki Sandru (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Readers of this newsgroup are advised that the internet forger and
harasser, gypsy Nikki Sandru has an updated web page at:


with complete examples of his forgery and harassment on the internet.

Nikki can also be reached at:

>Nick Sandru - System administrator  | e-mail:       (office)
>Columbus Space Station SDE Project  |              (home)
>Computer Resources International A/S| phone:+45 45 82 21 00 x2036(office)
>Bregnerodvej 144                    |         +45 47 98 06 27      (home)
>DK-3460 Birkerod, Denmark           | fax:    +45 45 82 17 11

or simply complain to his employer from which he telnets during duty hours:

	Carl Bro Civil and Transportation
	Granskoven 8
	DK-2600 Glostrup
	Tel.: +45 43 45 99 99   or +45 43 48 60 60
	Fax.: +45 43 63 65 67   or +45 43 48 66 60
	E-mail:   or 
+ - Ferenc Deak. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Does anyone know anything about Ferenc Deak?  1803-1876.  Does anyone 
know where I could find detailed info on him?  I would be grateful for 
any help I can get.

+ - Hungarian electronic resources FAQ (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

URL: <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
Archive-name: hungarian/faq
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: faq
Last-modified: 1996/07/04
Version: 1.50
Posting-Frequency: every fifteen days


     Hungarian electronic resources FAQ

               TABLE OF CONTENTS

1.      News and discussion groups in English
1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute
1.2  News from Central Europe Today
1.3  The Hungary Report
1.4  Hungary Online List (HOL)
1.6  On USENET
1.7  'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 
1.8  , the Hungarian-American list

2.      News and discussion groups in Hungarian
2.1  HIX (many groups and services)
2.2  BLA Sajtoszemle [press review]
2.3  "Nemzet" Magyar Internet Vilaglap [Hungarian Internet World Bulletin]
2.4  Other discussion groups

3.      Interactive services
3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web
3.2  Gopher and other interactive services
3.3  ARENA

4.      The Net in Hungary
4.3  FidoNet
4.4  Finding out somebody's email address

5.      Odds and ends
5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary
5.2  Conventions for coding Hungarian accents
5.3  Information sources about the rest of Central and Eastern Europe
5.4  Hungarian radio and television broadcasts available worldwide

6.      Contributors to this FAQ

7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 I know this is very long, perhaps too long for human consumption ;-).
One of the tasks for further editing is to make it more concise,
perhaps drop some parts altogether (I'd like to hear any suggestions).
You can search for the section titles listed above and skip what you
don't want, and many Unix newsreaders would jump ahead to the next one
with Ctrl-G (the format now follows the digest specification)!

- - ------------------------------


 Note: commercial networks -- such as CompuServe or AOL -- may have
their own in-house forums relating to Eastern and Central Europe. Be
aware that those are only open to the subscribers of the particular
service, unlike the discussion groups accessible by anyone via the
Internet and Usenet! This file -- the hungarian-faq -- is mostly
concerned with resources freely available netwide.
 See also the sections under 2. below which list services that carry
occasional English material, some regularly, besides their primarily
Hungarian language content.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute

 The Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest is available via
electronic mail, at no charge. The Digest covers all of the former
Soviet Union, East-Central and Southeastern Europe and is delivered in
two parts, each roughly 15 kByte in size, Monday through Friday (except
Czech holidays).

 You can subscribe by sending <mailto:>.
In the body of the message, type
 "SUBSCRIBE OMRI-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname" (leave out the quotation
marks and be sure to substitute your own name where shown).

 You can get reposts of just the items related to Hungary by
subscribing to Mozaik. See section 1.5.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.2  News from Central Europe Today

 Central Europe Today On-Line is a free daily news service covering the
important events and business news in the region. To subscribe, send
the word SUBSCRIBE <mailto:>. For more
detailed information, send a blank email message

Again, these exceed Hungary in scope, but you can get excerpts
pertaining to Hungary in Mozaik (see 1.4).

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.3  The Hungary Report

 The Hungary Report is a free weekly English-language online update of
news and analysis direct from Budapest each Sunday. The Report consists
of briefs, one feature story and an expert political opinion column.
The briefs cover the most important and interesting developments in
Hungary each week, while the feature stories address variously
politics, business, economics, arts and leisure. The weekly political
column, Parliament Watch, is written by Tibor Vidos, director of the
Budapest office of GJW, a British political lobbying and consulting
firm. To subscribe, send
<mailto:> containing (in the body
of the message, not in the headers) the single word "subscribe" (no
quotes).  Or send the word "info" to the same address for further

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.4  Hungary Online List (HOL)

 This discussion list is a "kind of Internet supplement" to the column
of the same title in Budapest Business Journal; to subscribe, send the
word "subscribe" <mailto:> (you'll get help
from its Majordomo server, if needed).

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.5  MOZAIK

 This is actually one of the services of HIX, meaning there's a slight
bit of Hungarian mixed in (the posts themselves are mostly in English,
but the server speaks Hunglish ;-)). MOZAIK brings you original content
(e.g. the schedule of DUNA TV, exchange rates), and digested reposts
of those news items (originating from OMRI, CET and other sources)
that bear directly on Hungary. You can subscribe by
sending a blank email message to <mailto:> and
unsubscribe by sending one to <mailto:>. See
section 3 about searching the HIX archives.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.6  On USENET

 The Hungarian newsgroup in the worldwide hierarchy is
<news:soc.culture.magyar>. It's mostly in English, sometimes
bilingual, and occasionally Hungarian only. The group is archived by
HIX (see its section for 'SCM') and is also readable under
<http://www.hix.com/usenet/>;. A similar archive is to be found at
<http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/>; (see 1.8 below). For www/e-mail
gateways see <http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzetiforum.html>; or the
archives mentioned above.

 Since May 1995 Hungary has its own netnews hierachy, with the following
groups created so far (hun.lists.* are email gateways):

 If you can connect to a remote news server (typically by setting the
NNTPSERVER variable under Unix), then you can get hun.* directly from
news.sztaki.hu or news.iif.hu (the former has been more stable
lately). Fetching articles is much faster from a local source - ask
you system administrator if they can get a feed! In the USA the first
provider offering the hierarchy seems to be AltNet,
<mailto:> to find out about that.  There is a gopher
interface to news: <gopher://mars.iif.hu:70/11/News> (the full URL to
go straight to the hun.* groups is:
For accessing groups in the international hierarchy from abroad via
gopher the gateway in the Netherlands may be better:
<gopher://g4nn.cca.vu.nl:4320/1g4nn%20group/soc.culture.magyar>.  The
hun.* groups are also archived by HIX (see its section for 'HUNGROUPS')
and they are also readable under <http://www.hix.com/usenet/>; as well
as <http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/>;.
 HIX provides a universal posting gateway to the soc.culture.magyar and
hun.* newsgroups. Use the addresses:
<mailto:>, for example
<mailto:>. A similar gatewaying service
is also available for soc.culture.magyar via
<mailto:> (see 1.8 below), as well as via
<mailto:> (see also 2.3).

 There are Hungarian local newsgroups available through
<telnet://ludens.elte.hu>, login with username GUEST (no password), and
enter NEWS to start the newsreader (you can use the VMS online help to
learn about it). The guest account is set up for accessing
<news:elte.diaklap> (students' journal at Eotvos U.), but other
newsgroups are available as well. (But please be considerate to the
strained network resources of Hungarian sites - from abroad for
non-local news use other providers.) For ELTE-specific questions
contact <mailto:>. This server is also accessible
via remote NNTP like the two mentioned above, but is often much slower
than those.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.7 'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 

  is a discussion group providing rapid communication
among those with interests in Hungarian issues. Subscribe by 
<mailto:> using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY Yourfirstname Lastname. Once you
have subscribed, any messages which you want to send to the group
should be sent to the group address, <mailto:>.
(This pattern of two addresses is standard: you turn your mail off and
on at the "listserv" address, and you send mail to the listname
address. For example, to  unsubscribe, send the server the message
SIGNOFF HUNGARY. You can temporarily turn off you mail by sending
listserv the message SET HUNGARY NOMAIL. SET HUNGARY MAIL turns mail
back on.) By default the listserv sends out messages as they arrive,
maybe several ones on busier days. If you prefer daily digest format,
you can issue the command SET HUNGARY DIGESTS (again by sending it to
the LISTSERV address); alternatively you can subscribe to HUNGARY via
HIX as mentioned in 2.1, and receive the same format as the other lists
by HIX. LISTSERV has many useful features, most notably database search
on the list archives - to learn more about it, send commands like SEND

 Note that the form of addressing LISTSERV lists such as Hungary may
depend a great deal on your local network configuration and mailer
software. For BITNET mailers you need GWUVM only; the local gatewaying
to BITNET may be BITNET% for VAXMail installations and
 at other places. Ask your local network
administrator first if you're experiencing problems.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.8  , the Hungarian-American list

 The Hungarian-American List is an unmoderated discussion forum to
promote communications between people with interest in modern Hungarian
culture and Hungarian cultural heritage. The list brings you, among
other things, news items originating from OMRI, CET, the Hungarian
media and several other sources, that might be of interest for
Hungarians and Americans. The WWW Home Page of the Hungarian-American
list is <http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/>;. Subscribe by
<mailto:>, using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY. The Hungarian Usenet group -
soc.culture.magyar is available for Hungarian-American List subscribers
via email. You can subscribe to this news-to-mail-to-news service by
<mailto:>, using no Subject, in the body of the
letter write SUBSCRIBE SOC-CULTURE-MAGYAR. The WWW address of the
interactive soc.culture.magyar archive is

 (Notice that this Maryland-based list is distinct from the older
LISTSERV list mentioned in 1.7 that has a broader focus - mentioning
'the HUNGARY list' ususally refers to that latter one! Note also that
the Majordomo server syntax is different from LISTSERV for many of
their commands - see the help document sent by the server.)

- - ------------------------------


- - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.1  HIX

 HIX, or Hollosi Information eXchange, is a non-profit formation run
and supported by several individuals and organizations. HIX was started
in 1989/90 and now it reaches more than 10,000 readers in about 45 countries
around the World.

Its services, mostly in Hungarian, are abundant and change frequently, so
it is best to obtain an up-to-date help file by sending an email message to
<mailto:> (a recent copy of that also seems to be in
<http://www.hix.com/hix/hixcore/senddoc/MAIN/HELP.ALL>; - but please
notice that there are superseded copies scattered in other parts in
the archive on the one hand, and many of the other files in this same
directory are outdated on the other hand; most notably, DO NOT TOUCH
that ancient version of hungarian-faq found there!). Here's a list of
what it currently offers in email digest format:

 HIR      -- 'Hirmondo', current newspaper survey edited in Budapest
 NARANCS  -- The Internet edition of the 'Magyar Narancs' weekly
 TIPP     -- politics-free questions, tips etc.
 SZALON   -- moderated political discussion forum
 FORUM    -- unmoderated political discussion forum
 GURU     -- computer-related questions
 RANDI    -- moderated personals; anonymous submissions possible
 VITA     -- moderated non-political discussion forum
 OTTHON   -- issues around the home
 MOKA     -- jokes, humor (Hungarian and other)
 MOZAIK   -- semi-regular bits of news and other info, mostly in
	     English, crossposts from the OMRI list, VoA gopher, CET
	     and other sources
 HUNGARY  -- daily digest of the Hungary LISTSERV list (see 1.7)
 SCM      -- gatewayed email digest of the Usenet newsgroup

 The following is not available for email subscription from
Hungary, but are accessible via the SENDDOC interface (or the
'finger ' service for the latest issues):
 HUNGROUPS - gatewayed email digest of the hun.* regional newsgroups

 Note that KEP (transcripts from the videotext news from Hungarian
Television's Kepujsag) has been suspended indefinitely - despite what
HIX' own HELP says.

 To subscribe (unsubscribe) to a particular email-journal, send email
to  ) where NAME is one of the

 The postings for the HIX discussion lists are sent out daily in
digested form. You can send your own submission to ,
whatever NAME is (provided it's actually a discussion list).

 The volume for some of these lists is becoming rather high, e.g. TIPP
often digests dozens of messages in hundreds of lines daily!  You ought
to try targeting your audience properly in order to find those who'd
help with your questions; also keep in mind that readers often answer
to the list rather than the individual even when personal reply is
requested, so if you ask something it's a good idea to subscribe also
(even though technically it's not required) instead of just addressing
a list as a non-subscriber. A reminder to those who reply to a post:
always remember that list messages get sent to several thousand readers,
so consider personal email if the subject is not of general interest!
If you answer through a list it's courteous to send a personal copy
(Cc: with most mailers) as well - this may reach the addressee
considerably earlier than the post distributed through the list.
 Notice the (undocumented) feature of the HIX mail-server: it only
accepts submissions if its address is found in the 'To:' header field!
It would quietly ignore incoming email Cc-d to it, so do not put the
 in the 'Cc:' (you can do so with other addressees).

 The HIX server can also send out archived files, see the SENDDOC
function in its description. In case you have any problems or questions
on the HIX services, please read through the automatic help response
first. If you need human intervention you can reach
<mailto:> - but keep in mind that list managers have
to do plenty other than answering things already laid out in the Fine

 You can also view the output of HIX interactively. See section 3.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.2  BLA Sajtoszemle

 Daily selection of articles from leading Hungarian newspapers by
the Lajos Batthyany Foundation, published by the Hungary.Network.
 To subscribe (unsubscribe), send email to <mailto:>
(<mailto:>). Also available in 123 accent notations
from the <mailto:> address.

 It is also readable on the WWW under <http://www.hungary.com/bla/sajto/>;.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.3  Nemzet Magyar Internet Vilaglap [Hungarian Internet World Bulleti

 [This section is as provided by <mailto:>]

(1) (E-mail news bulletins)
        "Nemzet" Magyar Internet Vilaglap
        E-mail news digest, Mon-Fri, 25-55k. Comprises East-European
        regional news (by OMRI, in English), excerpts from Hungarian
        press (in Hungarian), and reports on newsworthy items (press,
        events, etc., mostly in Hungarian and occasionally in English)

        www:  http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet.html

        Publisher and Editor in Chief: 

(2) (usenet e-mail digest)
        Digest of "Soc.Culture.Magyar" by means of e-mail bulletin, filtering
        out all lists and postings beyond size 8k.

        www: http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzetiforum.html

        Publisher and Editor in Chief: 

(3) (www/e-mail gateway)
        E-mail message is acknowledged and posted to "Soc.Culture.Magyar",
        with your address and your subject-definition.
        Simply send contributions to  

        Gateway maintained under direction of:

(5) Hungarian Papers on WWW (liberal to conservative)

        (a)     168 ORA

        (b)     KELET-MAGYARORSZAG

        (c)     UJVIDEKI NAPLO

        (d)     DEMOKRATA

        (e)     NEMZET

        (f)     MAGYAR ELET


        (g)     24. ORA

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.4  Other discussion groups in Hungarian

 A number of email lists are available from servers located in Hungary,
for directory see <gopher://HUEARN.sztaki.hu>. There are many college
publications available online as well, check out the links from the HU
homepage (see below).

- - ------------------------------


 If you are using Hungarian interactive services from abroad (or vice
versa): please note that interactive Internet connections like WWW
may be very slow, even timing out during peak hours - try times of
lower network load when the response time is usually reasonable.

- - ------------------------------
Subject: 3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web

 See the separate document "Hungarian WWW information FAQ",
available at <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/web>; as well
as in the Usenet archives.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 3.2  Gopher and other interactive services

 HIX has a server in the USA: <gopher://www.hix.com>. Its services
form just a subset of what it offers as a WWW site. RaDir is sometimes
useful for finding email-addresses, old or new friends on the Net. See
also Section 4.4.

 HIX has a gopher in Hungary as well:
<gopher://hix.elte.hu/11/HIX/HIX>, and another mirror at
<gopher://gopher.bke.hu:71/11/hix> (notice that this latter uses a
non-standard Gopher port number). Check also <gopher://gopher.elte.hu>
and <gopher://gopher.sztaki.hu>. Note that gopher is essentially
text-based (thus less satisfying than the Web) but often faster
(therefore less frustrating).

 CET's gopher is called <gopher://gopher.eunet.cz>.

 HIX documents from the archives of www.hix.com are available via the
(Unix) 'finger' protocol. Try 'finger ' to see how it
works.  This may be the easiest and fastest access from some sites.

 There is an electronic library at
<gopher://gopher.bke.hu:71/11/elibhu/> (notice the non-standard port)
that has much Hungarian text material, including some classical

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 3.3  ARENA

 An interactive chat service of HIX, run by the Hungary.Network.
Similar to IRC, but it does NOT require any client software. Simply
<telnet:hix.hungary.com> and you are there.

- - ------------------------------


 Overview: historically, ELLA was the first home-grown X.25
email-system in Hungary. It survives till this very day. EARN was next,
with its BITNET-like infrastructure (4.1). Full Internet connectivity
is provided by HUNGARNET (see 4.2), which really comprises all
academic, research and public non-profit sites.

 Here's a partial list of its domain names:

bme.hu          Technical University of Budapest
sztaki.hu       Computer and Automation Research Institute, Budapest 
elte.hu         Roland Eotvos University of Sciences, Budapest
bke.hu          Budapest University of Economic Sciences
sote.hu         Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
abc.hu          Agricultural Biotechnology Center, Godollo 
gau.hu          Godollo Agricultural University, Godollo
klte.hu         Kossuth Lajos University of Sciences, Debrecen
jpte.hu         Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
u-szeged.hu     Members of the Szeged University Association
bgytf.hu        Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College
uni-miskolc.hu  University of Miskolc
kfki.hu         Central research Inst. of Physics, Budapest 
vein.hu         University of Veszprem, Veszprem
bdtf.hu         Berzsenyi College, Szombathely
szif.hu         Szechenyi Istvan College, Gyor
blki.hu         Balaton Limnological Res. Inst. of Hung. Acad. Sci.

A schematic map of its topology ('HBONE'):

EBONE    EMPB                          EMPB   EBONE

  ^       ^                             ^       ^
  |       |                             |       |
  |       |   Microwave center ======= IIF Center ------- Miskolci Egyetem
  |       |      Budapest            /   Budapest            Miskolc
  |       |    //  ||    \\         /   //   |
  |       |   //   ||     MTA-KFKI /   //    L--------------- BGYTF
  |       |  //   MBK     Budapest    //     |             Nyiregyhaza
  |       | //   Godollo             //      |
  |      BME              MTA-SzTAKI//       L--------------- KLTE
  |    Budapest ########## Budapest          |              Debrecen
  |      ***                                 |
  |      ***                                 L--------------- GAMF
  L------BKE                                 |              Kecskemet
       Budapest                              |
          #    \                             L---------- Veszpremi Egyetem
          #     \                            |              Veszprem
         ELTE    \                           |
       Budapest   JATE                       L--------------- JPTE
                 Szeged                                       Pecs


 ***  100 Mbps FDDI
  #    10 Mbps optical cable (Ethernet)
  =     2 Mbps microwave
  |    64 kbps leased line (that's 0.064 Mbps)

Source: HUNGARNET/NIIF (URL <http://www.iif.hu/hungarnet.html>;)

 FidoNet is described in section 4.3, and commercial
networks/email/Internet Providers demand a separate document
('commercial.FAQ'), also see <http://www.sztaki.hu/providers/>;.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.1  BITNET/HUEARN

 What follows is a listing of all EARN nodes in Hungary, with contact
info.  This information is also available on the following gopher:

HUBIIF11 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                      
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : hubiif11.sztaki.hu                   
      User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBIIF61 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                    
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : mars.iif.hu                          
      User Info: Istvan ;+36 1 1665644
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBME11  Technical University of Budapest
     Technical University;of Budapest;Muegyetem rkp 9. R. ep;H-1111
     Budapest, Hungary           
     Internet address : atlantis.bme.hu                      
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 4632422               
     Fax : +36 1 1665711             

HUBME51  Technical University of Budapest                                  
     Technical University;Muegytem Rakpart 9;H-1111 Budapest               
     Internet address : bmeik.eik.bme.hu                     
     User Info: Laszlo ;+36 1 1812172                 
     Phone : +36 1 1812172            ; Fax : +36 1 1166711             

HUBPSZ12 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                  
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hubpsz12.sztaki.hu                   ;
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBPSZ61 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             

HUBPSZ62 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of
     Sciences;Lagymanyosi ut 11;1111 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUEARN   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary               
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : huearn.sztaki.hu                     ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 2698286                   
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUECO    University of Economic Sciences Budapest, Hungary                 
     University of Economic Sci;Computer Center;Kinizsi u 1-7;1092 Budapest
     Internet address : ursus.bke.hu                         ;
     User Info: Robert ;+36 1 1175224                    
     Phone : +36 1 1181317            ; Fax : +36 1 1175224             

HUELLA   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary           
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Node admin: Gizella ;+36 1 1497986                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGBOX   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary            
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hugbox.sztaki.hu                    ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 1497532                
     Phone : +36 1 1497532            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGIRK51 University of Agriculture Sciences
     University of Agriculture;Pater Karoly ut 1;H-2103 Godollo
     Internet address : vax.gau.hu                           ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 28 30200 -1015              
     Phone : +36 28 30200 -1015       ; Fax : +36 28 20804              

HUKLTEDR Kossuth Lajos University Debrecen, Hungary                       
     Internet address : dragon.klte.hu                       ;
     User Info: Robert                           

HUKLTE51 Kossuth Lajos University, Debrecen                                 
     Kossuth Lajos University;Egyetem Ter 1; PF. 58;H-4010 Debrecen        
     Internet address : huni7.cic.klte.hu                    ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 52 18800                      
     Phone : +36 52 18800             ; Fax : +36 52 16783              

HUSOTE51 University of Medical Science Budapest, Hungary                   
     University of Medical Science;SOTE;Ulloi u. 26.;1085 Budapest         
     Internet address : janus.sote.hu                        ;
     User Info: Gabor ;+36 1 1141705                 
     Phone : +36 1 1141705            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866

HUSZEG11 Jozsef Attila University, Szeged, Hungary                         
     Jozsef Attila University;Computer Centre;Arpad ter 2.;H-6720
     User Info: Ferenc ;+36 62 321022
     Miklos ;+36  
     Phone : +36 62 321022            ; Fax : +36 62 322227             

- - ------------------------------


 This information is also available on

Organisational Structure: 
 HUNGARNET is an association and also the computer network of Hungarian
institutes of higher education, research and development, libraries and
other public collections. HUNGARNET funding comes from the R&D
Information Infrastructure Program (IIF) sponsored by the Hungarian
Academy of Science, the National Committee of Technological
Development, the Ministry for Culture and Education and the National
Science Foundation. About 500 organizations have access to HUNGARNET
services. HUNGARNET as an association represents Hungary in
international networking organizations (e.g. TERENA).

Generic Services:
 HUNGARNET provides access to the Internet and several other national
network services over leased lines and the public packet switched data
network. Lot of different services (e.g. gopher, ftp, WWW, data bases)
provided by member organizations are available on the net. Centrally
supported and coordinated services are:
 - email (internet SMPT, EARN BSMTP, OSI X.400, UUCP, XXX ELLA) 
 - email gateways between the different email systems above 
 - distribution services (LISTSERV, news) 
 - information services (ftp, gopher, WWW servers, data bases) 
 - directory services (X.500) 
 - individual accounts and login

External Connectivity:  
 HUNGARNET is subscriber to EBONE and EMPB/EuropaNET as well. There are
two 64 kbps leased lines to EBONE (Vienna EBS). These two lines should
be upgraded to a single 256 kbps line in the near future.  HUNGARNET
uses two 64 kbps interfaces on the EMPB/EuropaNET node in Budapest as
well. These two interfaces should also be upgraded to a single 256 kbps
interface very soon.

Internal Connectivity: 
 Internal connectivity of HUNGARNET is based partly on the public X.25
service of the Hungarian PTT and partly on the community's private IP
backbone network (HBONE). The kernel of the HBONE infrastructure is in
Budapest, where several important organizations are connected in
different ways (64-256 kbps leased lines, 1-2 Mbps microwave links, 10
Mbps optical Ethernet, 100 Mbps FDDI). Several cities (regional
centers) in the country are also connected to the network via 64 kbps
leased lines (Miskolc, Nyiregyhaza, Debrecen, Kecskemet, Szeged, Pecs,
Veszprem) and 2 Mbps microwave (Godollo). Now there are about 50
organizations directly connected to the backbone and about 50 others
using IP over X.25. The number of the registered, connected hosts is
about ten thousand. There is an ongoing development, new regional
centers (Kaposvar, Keszthely, Szombathely, Sopron, Gyor) and several
organizations in Budapest will be connected subsequently.  Many users
do not have IP connectivity yet but are connected to the public X.25
network. There are several services (e.g. individual login, mail,
gopher, news) that are open for traditional XXX/X.25 access.

Contact Persons:
Miklos NAGY <mailto:> - head of the HUNGARNET/IIF 
					coordination office
Laszlo CSABA <mailto:> - HUNGARNET/IIF technical director
Balazs MARTOS <mailto:> - HBONE project manager
Nandor HORVATH <mailto:> - Local Internet Registry, 
				.hu top level domain contact
IP address and domain administration: <mailto:> 
Network management: <mailto:>

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.3  FidoNet

 FidoNet connects through sztaki.hu, as indicated above.

 There are three FidoNet nodes: Budapest NET (2:371/0); West Hungary
Net (2:372/0); and Tisza NET (2:370/0). If you want to write on the
FidoNet, chances are you already know how. *PLEASE* find out what you
are about to do instead of experimenting with the Hungarian net - don't
add to the problems for the folks in Hungary having to deal with the
underdeveloped phone system and outrageous international tolls ;-<. For
further information I post a Fido-sheet separately from this FAQ, where
there are also telephone numbers and further addresses, but again: try
to verify that you are mailing to a valid address (the BBS situation
may have changed since the copy you are reading got updated - look for
current FIDO listing on the net, or better yet contact the person you
want to reach by other means first)!. If you can send Internet email
and have the FidoNet address, you can write to it by transforming it to
appropriate .FIDONET.ORG format.

 Fidonet mail works with Hungarian BBS's but you have to know whom to
reach. I will attempt to maintain a separate Fido posting to Usenet;
please try to make sure you email to a valid address and in particular
avoid using outdated sources on Hungarian BBS's (otherwise your
misdirected trial will burden the Hungarian network coordinator!).

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.4  Finding out somebody's email-address in Hungary

 The bigger academic domains have on-line directories (CSO phonebooks):

Technical University, Budapest

Budapest University of Economic Sciences*
(*under construction)

Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest

Central Research Inst. of Physics, Budapest

Members of the Szeged University Association

Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs

University of Veszprem

 ELLA also has an on-line directory: <telnet://hugbox.sztaki.hu:203>
(i.e. address a special port). Note that the opening screen uses
special characters for the accented letters but the data records have
combinations of vowel plus ',: or " instead (i.e. searching for
hollo'si would retrieve a record, but hollosi won't)!

 If the person has registered him/herself with the RaDir database of
HIX, you might try the following (note, however, that most parts of
RaDir are badly out of date):

 - by <gopher://www.hix.com/11/HIX/radir> (a link to the same is
offered by <http://www.hix.com/hix/>; on the World Wide Web); from
inside Hungary use <gopher://hix.elte.hu/11/HIX/HIX/radir>, or
<http://hal9000.elte.hu/hix/radir.html>; (this last one is a true HTML
search form)). Under RaDir, you'll find the entire database
cross-indexed by search keys.

 - by 'finger +whois:"SEARCHWORD"@www.hix.com' you can look up records
containing "SEARCHWORD" string in the database

 - by email: send a blank message <mailto:>. You'll
receive, in several chunks, the entire database of users, their
electronic and snail-mail addresses, etc. You'll need a decent editor
to search what you're looking for.

 If you have some idea what institution to check at, you may find an
online directory service -- many are available, and could be reached
through the Hungarian gophers (or WWW sites) mentioned in section 3.
Try contacting the (electronic) postmaster, usually
, or using 'finger' to inquire about users.

 As a last resort, send in your query to a discussion group. Readers of
<news:soc.culture.magyar>, <mailto:> discussion
list (section 1.7), or some HIX-list (<mailto:> in
particular, see 2.1) may be able to help. Be aware, though, that most
participants are located abroad - especially in the case of the Usenet

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.  ODDS AND ENDS

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary

 The electricity is 220 V, 50 Hz. The frequency, in fact, fluctuates a
lot, but it doesn't cause any problem when operating computer devices.
(Don't trust too much your plug-in clock radios though.) If you are
from any country running on 110 V or around, due to complications in
voltage conversion, a battery driven laptop or notebook is your best
bet. However, if you decide to take your desktop system, printer, etc.,
you  have a good chance that the device can also be operated on 220 V.
Check it first before you go through unnecessary trouble. If not, you
have to apply 220 V to 110 V AC converters (you might need more than
one; check the power ratings of your devices & converters). WARNING!
Your converters should be designed for *electronic/motorized devices*.
Refuse any converter for *heating appliances* even if its power rating
is much higher! These converters are not real transformers, and can
cause major damages to your electronic devices.

 Also make sure you are able to connect to the Hungarian grounded power
outlet, because that's what's recommended for your appliances.
Therefore you should try to find grounded plug adapters and/or voltage
converters.  Connecting to ungrounded outlets causes possibly no harm,
but for your own & your devices' safety grounded connections should be

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2  Conventions & standards for coding Hungarian accents

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.0 Introduction & section overview  

 During the evolution of teletypes and computers, two character tables
survived, acquiring major importance in later computer systems. One is
EBCDIC, primarily used in ancient IBM mainframes. The other one, ASCII,
can be considered today's ubiquitous standard in computing worldwide.
The rest of this section, therefore, pays attention to ASCII code, very
unfairly ignoring EBCDIC, since none of the accent conversion programs
support neither this code table nor the CMS environment.

 Since the language of computing has been English from the beginning,
the original ASCII table was limited to the characters used in English:
letters of the Latin alphabet, a few punctuation marks and some other
special symbols. Since the number of all these characters, plus the
unprintable "control" characters (located in the first 32 positions of
the ASCII table, responsible for different control functions) doesn't
exceed 128, the real 'brilliant' idea of representing the ASCII table
in 7 bits spread like wild fire all over the computer world. No wonder,
that most of the Internet mailers and Usenet hubs are also set up to
forward documents in 7-bit ASCII only.  (Read the rest of the section
carefully to learn how to overcome these problems.) As computing and
word processing started to rise up in the rest of the world, there was
an increasing demand to represent these national characters as well. (A
good example is Hungarian. The extra consonants [nonexistent in
English] are formed by merely juxtaposing 2 (or 3 in case of dzs)
regular Latin characters; so there is no problem here.  However, the
special vowels of the language are denoted by applying different
accents on the Latin 'base-vowel', introducing new characters, the so
called accented vowels.) It's an obvious idea to place these national
characters and other fancy symbols utilizing codes 128 to 255, still
remaining within the byte limit. Different character sets have been
created by defining purpose- or language-specific characters for the
upper half of the table, while keeping the 7-bit ASCII codes unchanged.
(Note:  Some character sets also re-use codes between 0 and 31, the
domain of ASCII control characters, keeping some, or none of them.
Using these codes, however, is pretty difficult, device- and
implementation-dependent, etc.  Therefore it wouldn't be wise to put
accented characters here, but fortunately none of the sets listed below
did it actually.) Hopefully Unicode will ultimately stop this
confusion, but until then there's a long long way to go.

At this point let's clarify the terminology:

... ASCII (also 7-bit or plain ASCII) data:
Usually text (but not necessarily, see, containing only 7-bit
ASCII characters, including the control ones.
... 8-bit (extended) ASCII data:
Text containing the uniform 7-bit ASCII characters, plus special
characters (with code greater than 127) according to one of the 8-bit
character sets.
... Binary data:
Non-text data (executables, pictures, etc.) containing any 8-bit value.

 The different kludges accepted by Internet users to denote accented
vowels in 7-bit ASCII are described in 5.2.1. The most important
extended ASCII character sets are introduced in 5.2.2. 5.2.3 shows the
accented character representations used by high-level formatting
languages. The correct ways of transferring files among word processor
[on the Net] are detailed in 5.2.4. If the data to be transferred is
not 7-bit ASCII, 5.2.5 tells you what to do. Last, but not least, 5.2.6
introduces the programs in the HIX archives (and mentions some others)
that address the problem of conversion between the various types of
accent representation.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.1 House rules for plain (7-bit) ASCII

 If you are limited to the use of 7-bit ASCII, you have essentially the
following choices to deal with the accented characters: No accent marks at all

 Simple and sure-fire. In fact, the most common 'solution'. The '~" coding (also called "marking notation" or "Babai-code")
        [Sometimes nicknamed as _repu~lo"_.]

 Here's a sample:

         O~t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu~nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu~ko~rfu'ro'ge'p
         O~t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru~lt i'ro't nyu'z

or, in the alternative ':" _repu:lo"_ format:

         O:t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu:nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu:ko:rfu'ro'ge'p
         O:t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru:lt i'ro't nyu'z

 Quite readable, though a bit tricky to disambiguate mechanically:
remember, the " or : or ' may also serve as punctuation marks. (This
problem can be handled using Maxent's escaping capabilities, see

Warning! Don't get confused: in TeX (see " denotes umlaut! The 123 coding (also "numerical notation" or "Pro1sze1ky-code")

 Here's the same text:

         O2t hu3to3ha1zbo1l ke1rtu2nk szi1nhu1st
         a1rvi1ztu3ro3 tu2ko2rfu1ro1ge1p
         O2t sze1p szu3zla1ny o3ru2lt i1ro1t nyu1z

 The only one that's both short and unambiguous, though it takes some
getting used to. 1 stands for the stroke, 2 for the short umlaut, 3 for
the 'Hungarian' or long umlaut (double acute). Very easily converted to
other formats. (Also can be ambiguous, though with much smaller
probability. E.g. U2, CO2, , etc.) Telegraphic style. For example,

         Oet huetoehaazbool keertuenk sziinhuust
         aarviiztueroe tuekoerfuuroogeep
         Oet szeep szuezlaany oeruelt iiroot nyuuz

 Avoid it like the plague because

1. It's ambiguous. (Think of Goethe, Oetker, Eoersi, Csooori, poeen.) 
2. Coding of o" & u" (o3 & u3) is not consistent:
   u3 = ue (fallback to u2), uue, uee, ueue
3. Absolutely not a pleasure to read.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.2 Fancy 8-bit character sets (extended ASCII)

 The following rollcall lists the most important character sets
supported by the majority of hardware and software, including the
accent conversion programs. The available Hungarian accented characters
are detailed for each set.


 Henceforth when referring to an accented character, the numerical
(Pro1sze1ki) notation will be used to maintain clarity. PC-codepages

(*) PC-437: Hardware

 The basic hardware character set of PC-compatible systems. Since it
was supposed to contain many symbols (line drawing characters, some
Greek letters, etc.), and be general, it's pretty poor in terms of
accented characters. Missing Hungarian vowels: o3, u3 [substitute them
with o^ & u^], A1 [substitute it with A-circle], I1, O1, O3, U1, U3.

(*) CWI recommendation for Hungarian accents:

A standard initiative to replace the many house rules of character code
assignment for accents unavailable in PC-437. Codes are assigned as

o3->147 [o^], u3->150 [u^], A1->143, I1->141 [i`] or 140 [I^],
O1->149 [o`], O3->167, U1->151 [u`], U3->153 [y~]

(*) PC-850: Multilingual

Contains all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.
Note: ? means o, u, O or U.

(*) PC-852: Latin 2

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

(*) PC-860: Portuguese
(*) PC-863: Canadian-French
(*) PC-865: Nordic

These sets miss various Hungarian accents, esp. in upper case. Using
them for a Hungarian text makes absolutely no sense. ISO character sets

 These character sets are specified by ISO standards. As far as ALL
(not only Hungarian) accented vowels concerned, ISO 8859/1, 2 & 9 is
equivalent to Windows Latin 1, 2 & 5 respectively.

(*) ISO 8859/1:
(*) ISO 8859/3:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

(*) ISO 8859/2:

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

 Fonts for iso-8859-2 (and some other) character sets can be found at
<ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/font/> for various operation systems, and at
<ftp://almos.vein.hu/ssa/kbd_es_font/> (mirrored at
<ftp://ftp.vma.bme.hu/pub/ssa/kbd_es_font/> and
<ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/ssa/kbd_es_font/>) mostly for Unix. There is
material for Hungarianizing the Linux (and possibly other Unix variant)
operation system at <ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/magyar/linux/>. Others

The following character sets are supported by various laser printers. 
Roman-8 bears special importance as being the default character set of
many printers.

(*) Ventura International & Roman-8:
(*) MC Text:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.3 Text formatting languages

 The text formatting languages listed below, beyond their powerful text
formatting capabilities, also include the specification of [almost] all
the accented characters. These languages give an alternative way of
dealing with accents in 7-bit ASCII, especially if the software that
can display, print or convert these representations is available.
[Unlike notations in 5.2.1, the "raw" files of these languages are not
intended to be read by ordinary users.] [La]TeX. 

 Invented by D. E. Knuth, TeX (pronounce as [tech]; 'X' denotes the
Greek letter 'chi'), and the macro collection based on it, LaTeX, are
today's most popular text formatting languages for document creation
and DTP.

To continue with the same example,

 \"{O}t h\H{u}t\H{o}h\'{a}zb\'{o}l k\'{e}rt\"{u}nk sz\'{\i}nh\'{u}st

 \'{a}rv\'{\i}zt\H{u}r\H{o} t\"{u}k\"{o}rf\'{u}r\'{o}g\'{e}p

 \"{O}t sz\'{e}p sz\H{u}zl\'{a}ny \H{o}r\"{u}lt \'{i}r\'{o}t ny\'{u}z

 This is meant to be printed with TeX or previewed as a dvi file.
 Wholly unambiguous, can be automatically converted to/from several
other formats (see 5.2.6). Also check the babel system for LaTeX with
the Hungarian specific option, available from FTP sites kth.se or
goya.dit.upm.es. HTML (HyperText Markup Language)

 Unfortunately, the HTML-2 standard still does not contain notation for
Hungarumlaut (long umlaut, double acute). We use tilde or circumflex
instead. The preferred notation is o with tilde õ and u with
circumflex û. In the example above,

   Öt hûtõházból kértünk


   Öt szép szûzlány õrült
   írót nyúz RTF (Rich Text Format)

 This standard is widespread among Microsoft word processors. For
non-ASCII characters it uses the following coding:


where XX is the code of the given ISO 8859/2 (or PC-852 for Word for
DOS) character in hexadecimal. Adobe PostScript

 It is a universal standard for describing any kind of graphics,
including fonts, but it is aimed at producing the final (typically
printed) copy of documents and not at word-processing per se. For a
starter document see <http://www.adobe.com/PS/PS-QA.html>; or
<ftp://wilma.cs.brown.edu/pub/comp.lang.postscript/FAQ.txt> or
If one has the right accented fonts sets then, in theory, the output is
transferable between different machines - but often we run into hurdles
in practice.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.4 Microcomputer products: The word processors 

 Different word processors on different microcomputers use several
proprietary internal control sequences to handle accented characters,
as much as other symbols, and other text formatting commands. If you
want to transfer a document like this, you have to convert this [very
probably] binary file (8-bit ASCII with all kinds of binary crap) to
text (7-bit ASCII), see, unless your mailer can handle binary
directly, see Make sure, however, that the recipient of your
document also possesses the same or equivalent word processor, or a
word processor supporting the format you used.

 It might happen that you want to use your document in another word
processing system, or a plain text editor. Today's word processors
offer conversion to a few formats, and also pure text with different
character sets (5.2.2). The resulting file, if necessary, can be
converted further to 7-bit ASCII as shown in 5.2.6. (The output is
already 7-bit ASCII in Microsoft's RTF, see

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.5 Switching binary to ASCII and vice versa Uuencode & uudecode

 The easiest and most popular way of conversion between binary and
ASCII is the use of the twin sisters uuencode and uudecode. These
programs were created originally for Unix ('uu' stands for Unix to
Unix), but today they are implemented under most platforms.

 Uuencode makes an ASCII file out of a binary one, forming 61 character
long lines to avoid problems excessively long lines can cause in the
different mailer agents. This conversion increases the size of the file
by 40%.  Warning! Understand the really goofy usage of uuencode. The
parameters specify the local & remote BINARY filenames respectively.
The encoded ASCII result is sent to the standard output, it has to be
redirected into a file explicitly. (E.g. uuencode myface.gif myface.gif
> myface.uue )

 Uudecode converts the encoded ASCII file back to binary. It is smart:
using the "begin" and "end" tags placed in the encoded file, uudecode
is able to retrieve the encoded information automatically discarding
everything before and after the tags (headers, signatures, other junk),
even if it's inserted in the middle of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Its
usage is also simple: only the input filename has to be specified; the
original filename is restored from the "begin" tag. (E.g. uudecode
yourface.mal ) MIME support

 Many modern mailers support the MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail
Extensions) standard being able to transfer different file formats
beyond plain text. In this case the ASCII/binary conversion is the
mailer's internal affair. Some mailers make explicit calls to uuencode
and uudecode, some others (e.g. PINE) have different built in
conversion algorithms, trying to choose the most appropriate one for
the given binary file. (One type of MIME encoding substitutes an
unprintable character by its code in hexadecimal, preceded by an =
sign. That's why you often see them splattered around.) In either case,
however, the user is not responsible for the conversion, the mailer
takes care of it automatically. Binhex

 BinHex files are 7-bit ASCII text files, typically used for encoding
Macintosh binaries. Conversion is done by various applications, see eg.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.6 Translating between various accent formats

 From the HIX archives (see section 3) the following programs are
available.  The regular location is 
<http://www.hix.com/hix/hixcore/senddoc/info/programs/>;, though
you should also check <http://www.hix.com/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/>; 
for updates. At the time of this writing the SENDDOC archive is 
extremely ill-organized and outdated in many parts, including, 
unfortunately, the 'new' directory.

 Warning! From abroad always access the HIX archives via 
<mailto:>, or 'finger '
(the latter only works for text, and you may have to redirect it to a
pager or file). The mirror at <gopher://hix.elte.hu> is updated only at
certain periods of time, also there is a limited bandwidth on the lines
connecting Hungary to the world (see section 4). ekezettelenites

 Gabor Toth's UNIX shell script for deleting unwanted accents from mail
files. etex

 Gabor Toth's shareware C source code for converting the marking or
numerical accent notation to TeX-format. It also claims to be capable
of hyphenation. Supports the UNIX platform. hion

 Peter Verhas's C source code. It's an improved version of etex, as it
reduces the probability of incorrect hyphenation with some built-in
exception library. Hion is able to do the conversion between the
numerical (or, redefining each accent mark, also the marking) accent
notation & TeX-format, and remove accents if the input is an accent
notation. Read his documentation. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS,
UNIX. Available from <ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/magyar/TeX/hion.tar.gz>
or <ftp://ftp.digital.bme.hu/hion/>. drtc.c

 Peter Verhas's freeware C source for conversion between text and RTF
(Rich Text Format), character sets ISO 8852/2 (Latin 2), PC-852 (Latin
2) and CWI. The program attempts to find out the inbound format
automatically, RTF or text as well as used character set. The outbound
format is the same as the inbound format, the program changes only the
character set. In other words, the program does not convert from RTF ot
text or from text to RTF. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS, & UNIX and
other platforms supporting ANSI C. hun.c

 Gabor Ligeti's freeware C source code for accent removal and
conversion between the marking & numerical accent notation, TeX-format
and PC-852 (Latin 2) codepage. Warning! Conversion capabilities are not
orthogonal, type hun /? for the supported conversions. No platform
limitations are indicated. MAXENT.UUE_V6.0a

 Peter Csaszar's freeware C source code compressed with pkzip & encoded
with uuencode (see Warning! As of 6/12/95, the HIX gopher's
/HIX/SENDDOC/info/programs directory still contains 'maxent.c', the
very old version V1.4 of Maxent. Don't touch this file, go for version
V6.0a, currently in <http://www.hix.com/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/MAXENT.Z>;.

 Maxent provides 100% orthogonality in conversion between any of the
accent notations listed in 5.2.1 but telegraphic style, and any of the
character sets listed in 5.2.2, allowing multiple notations in the
input file. The domain of conversion includes 6 vowels and 6 accent
types, applying therefore a house rule extension of the marking and
numerical accent notations. (Hoping that this extension becomes widely
accepted, no longer remaining a house rule.) Language accent profiles
other than the default Hungarian can be selected. Further accent
services include accent notation escaping & de-escaping (see,
and flexible substitution of the o3 etc. characters.

 Beyond some little services, the rest of the major features provide
comprehensive retabulation strategies, full newline conversion
capabilities and script file execution (ideal for maintaining mail
folders after download).

 The help given by the program can be saved into a file by typing
maxent -h0 > maxent.hlp . Print this file for fancy bedtime reading.

 Maxent supports only the MS-DOS environment, and should be compiled by
a Borland C compiler. This is the sacrifice for the extensive services
provided. ekezet.dot

 Via anonymous <ftp://bme-tel.ttt.bme.hu/pub/income/ekezetes/>, you can
find Kornel Umann's WinWord template capable of many kinds of
conversion.  Also find other goodies in the directory above. hixiso

 Olivier Clary's Unix scripts for converting accented text appearing
on HIX are at <ftp://almos.vein.hu/ssa/kbd_es_font/hixiso.tar.gz>.

- - ------------------------------

Subject:  5.3 Information sources pertaining to the rest of Central Europe

 This section is by no means to be comprehensive. For a big but dated
(1992) list see

 Both OMRI and CET cover the general region in their news. See Section
1.1 and 1.2, respectively.

 To complement the HUNGARY list (see Section 1.7), at the same listserv
at Buffalo there exist the Middle European discussion list MIDEUR-L as
well as POLAND-L and SLOVAK-L. Send the usual command to
<mailto:> (or simply  on

      SUBSCRIBE listname-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname.

 On Usenet there is soc.culture.romanian, soc.culture.czecho-slovak,
soc.culture.polish, and the gatewayed bit.listserv.mideur-l and
bit.listserv.slovak-l; bit.listserv.hungary has been established, but
many sites do not have it. The surest way to receive everything is via
email. If you prefer using Usenet newsreaders you find HIX's HUNGARY
digests posted to soc.culture.magyar (which group does not seem to
suffer the poor propagation affecting some of the bit.listserv
groups).  Please notice that while the listserv groups are
bi-directionally gatewayed, i.e. posts to them get propagated back to
the original mailing list, the posts coming from HIX to
soc.culture.magyar are mere copies of the mailing list messages - do
not reply to the newgroups since your answer won't reach the email
readers (who constitute a likely large majority).

 Speaking of limitations of distribution be aware that some commercial
Internet connection providers (most blatantly American Online)
established their own groups with topics overlapping existing Usenet
hierarchy. The utility of these local groups is seriously limited since
they are, unlike the open real Usenet newsgroups such as those
mentioned above, unavailable to anyone but their own subscribers (i.e.
a small domestic fraction of all the Internet/Usenet users worldwide).
Please do not post to non-local groups saying how nice would be to use
these specialized forums - we can not. Use the newsgroup
soc.culture.magyar or the mailing lists!

 The Central European Regional Research Organization (CERRO) can be
joined at <mailto:> with the command
SUBSCRIBE CERRO-L Firstname Lastname.  This is a scholarly group that
deposits papers and the like in an electronic archive in Vienna.  The
archive is accessible with anonymous <ftp://wu-wien.ac.at>, or with

 The Eastern Europe Business Network ) is
primarily remarkable for its size (1700+ subscribers). Messages tend to
be brief bursts of announcements, questions and, unsurprisingly, calls
for or queries about business. The list is administered by Yale's Civic
Education Project (Chris Owen, <mailto:>). To
subscribe, send a message to the address
<mailto:> that has

             subscribe e-europe YourFirstName YourLastName
in its body.

 The repository for Voice of America material, accessible with
<gopher://gopher.voa.gov>, also contains some information and news
items relevant to the region.

 Check the NATO archive for goodies: <gopher://gopher.nato.int>.

 The Slovakia Document Store will answer all your questions about
Slovakia:  on the World Wide Web, <http://www.eunet.sk>;, via
<gopher://gopher.eunet.sk>, via <ftp://ftp.eunet.sk/slovakia/>, via
gophermail: send a message with Subject: HELP
- - ------------------------------
Subject: 5.4  Hungarian radio and television broadcasts available
 See the separate document "Hungarian broadcast information FAQ",
available at <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/broadcast>; as well
as in the Usenet archives.

- - ------------------------------


(the order is alphabetical by last name)

Beke Tibor     <mailto:>           general layout, 2.1, 5.3
Bruner, Rick   <mailto:>     1.3
Csaszar Peter  <mailto:>   5.1, 5.2
Fabian Peter   <mailto:> 3.1, 4.1, 4.4
Fekete Zoli    <mailto:>           much of the rest
Hewes, Cameron <mailto:>      1.2
Hollo Kriszta  <mailto:>         4.2
Saghi-Szabo Gotthard <mailto:>, section 1.8
Toth, Joseph   <mailto:>, section 2.3
Umann Kornel   <mailto:>        5.2
Varnum, Ken    <mailto:>       1.1

 If you have a question or remark regarding some specific section, you
may want to contact its author. The FAQ as such continues to be
maintained by Zoli Fekete <mailto:>. The keeper hereby
expresses the many thanks we all owe to every contributor - and above
all to Tibor Beke who brought about this cooperative effort, and took
upon consolidating the whole (with Peter Csaszar who took over the
next-to-last editing). Still, any errors (with the exception of the
independently maintained section 2.3) are the responsibility of Zoli -
who'd like to hear all corrections, recommendations or just comments
readers may have!
 Acknowledgement is also due here to Jozsef Hollosi and Arpad Palotas,
for providing webspace to this FAQ on the HIX server and helping to
improve its homepage, respectively.

- - ------------------------------

Subject: 7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

 One of these days ;-) there will be a guide here about how to handle
all the strange things that you may see embedded in this text; but in
the meantime, if you don't know yet what URLs are and are not reading a
copy thru a WWW browser that may show a selectable link: just do the
sensible thing and use email to access 'mailto:' addresses, ftp for
'ftp:' and telnet for 'telnet:'...

 Updated versions of this document will be in
or <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq>. Notice
that the canonical Usenet archive <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu> is often
overloaded - if you can't get connected try one of the mirror sites (of
which a list by countries can be found in
that is also available thru the RTFM mail-server shown below) - eg.
<ftp://mirrors.aol.com/pub/rtfm/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq> in
the USA! You can also retrieve it via <mailto:>
with the command "send usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq" in the body
of the message, or via 'finger '.
 A brief extract of hungarian-faq, concentrating on the email services,
is also available now
<http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq-pointer>; or 
'finger '.
 A separate document on network service providers in Hungary
prepared independently by John Horvath <mailto:> is
available via email from its author or via

 This hungarian-faq is expected to be updated at least every couple of
months, due to the rapid changes occuring on the net. If you are
reading a copy whose 'Last-modified:' date shown on top is older than
that then many parts may be out of date - in this case get the recent
one from the sources listed above, and/or try to convince the
administrator of the site keeping the old copy to freshen it. Please
notice that retrieving from the Usenet archives is likely a lot faster
than asking me personally (and most everything I can answer is already
in here)! If you do write me <mailto:>, then give a
descriptive 'Subject:' line - keep in mind that much of my incoming
email deemed unworthy by me is deleted unread in order to keep up with
the high volume I am receiving (most of it from various mailing
lists). The best way to ensure catching my attention - and to allow
automatized pre-processing - is to start it with 'ZFIX:' (the name my
mail-handler answers to is Zophisticated Free Information eXchange, in
case you were wondering :-)).

 This work as a collection is copyright (1990-96) Zoli Fekete, and
parts are copyright of their respective authors. Please do not
redistribute substantial portions without contacting the maintainer.
 Since February 14, 1996 this document is authenticated 
by my secure public-key encrypted electronic signature 
(see <http://www.ifi.uio.no/pgp>; for details), 
 the public key for which is shown in the WWW link 
and is also attached to the end of the text available via
 'finger '!
 Unauthorized publishing in off-line media - such as printed, CD-ROM or 
magnetic databases - is explicitly prohibited!  

URL: <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
Archive-name: hungarian/faq
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: faq
Last-modified: 1996/07/04
Version: 1.50
Posting-Frequency: every fifteen days

- - --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 

SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

Version: 2.6.2

+ - Mulroney (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >  (aheringer) writes:
>In article >,  
>>In article >,  > wrote:
 (Gyorgy Kovacs) wrote:
>>>>Remelem nem hagytad ki a legnagyobb kanadai linket (sokan tudhatjak 
>>>>hogy kire gondolok).   ;->
>>>Mar megint Mulroney-t piszkalod?!  ;-)))
>>>Udv,  Dominus
>>Nem hiszem, hogy arra gondolt.
>Dehogynem.  Ki masra?  Agnes

Ki az a Mulroney? GK
+ - Hung. Lit. at MLA in Washington, D.C. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Readers,

The Discussion Group on Hungarian Liteture will have
a splendid program at this year's Modern Language Association
of America Convention in Washington D.C.

There will be three papers on the "postmodern" fiction of
Konrad, Esterhazy, and Nadas . . . 

I know this is short notice, but a storm fried my modem here
recently, so I couldn't deliver this message until today . . . 

When and where:

On December 27, 1996 from 9:00 p.m. till 10:15 p.m.
in Monroe West of the Washington Hilton . . . 

Hungarians or friends of Hungary in the D.C. area might
wish to attend. The papers this year are very promising,
I think (I have to be modest here since I will read one
myself :-) . . . I believe that MLA allows non-MLA members
to attend a single session such as this. Passes may have
to be obtained at the appropriate MLA desk in the
Washington Hilton (I am pretty sure . . . )

Steven C. Scheer
+ - Re: Will aol honor "magyar s" request to Censor Senate (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Fri Dec 20/96  (WASPnot)wrote:
|Subject: Will aol honor "magyar's" request to Censor Senate's
|Polak  vs.  Polack  - Still Confused?
|Certain persons on the Internet are still confusing the words
|Polack v. Polak and asking aol to censor the word form.
|Once again. Ann Landers (the etiquette and personality lady) &
|Mike Royko of Chicago media fame have recognized that some
|uninformed (perhaps uneducated in America) persons confuse the
|words Polak vs. Polack .
|Ann Landers referred to the pope as a Polak as one who hates
|women. Mike Royko explained Ann Slander's definition that the
                         Nice little play on words

|Polish people really do hate women and he [Mike Royko] likes
|to be called Polak and suggested that other Polish people that
|they be proud to be called Polak - an honorable name in
|  The U.S. Senate's racial dictionary for immigration purposes
|differentiates between Polack which IS an English pejorative
|(like Frog, Wog, Wop, etc) and Polak which IS the official
|intellectual definition, for immigration purposes, for the
|Polish people's and their unacceptability to become Americans
|of the Aryan/WASP type, 

As a purebred "WASP", Mr/Ms WASPnuts is using a pejorative
here. As I understand it, Americans are not all of the
"Aryan/WASP type and never have been.

|even differentiating among Polak types such
|as water-Polaks versus slave (Slav) Polaks from Slovakia - the
|hill Polaks who are actually Moravian magyarized Poles.

Perhaps Mr/Ms WASPnuts could differentiate among "WASP" types
or perhaps they are a exclusive type.

|Still got a problem? Write to Ann Slanders; maybe she can
|esplain it to you more better?

Watch out Torski, scm has an official spellnazi in its midst
named Georgy KoVacuous. You'll have a lot of esplaining to do.

|macZugaKausT  cat3wog   A3ce2   NA2OP   R3
|http://home.aol.com/WASPnot (WASP's anti-WOG Immigration
|http://home.aol.com/SalaryPlan (WASP's anti-WOG Glass/Iron
|http://members.aol.com/HistoryNOT (History WASPs want to
|http://members.aol.com/WaspWatch (Texaco's Shredded Documents)
|http://members.aol.com/UofHKausT ( Big Six SPC Confidential

I checked out these websites; they are as racist as anything
posted by a semi-literate Nazi, except this time the target of
racial hatred is the "WASP."
+ - Re: California scholars discover language is all Geneti (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Istvan Szucs wrote:
> In article >,
> Gabor Morocz  > wrote:
> | In > 
> | >This is ridiculous, there is an amazing amount of
> | >counterevidence to this, including twin studies that as a
> | >side "effect" provide  perfect counterevidence.Furthermore
> | >if I were African (or African American) I would be offended
> | >by this statement much more than by anything that was ever said
> | >in the Bell Curve.
> | >
> | >Istvan
> |
> | This is not all. California newspapers reported that the Oakland School
> | Board already acted on this study.  They approved Ebonics as an
> | official second language.  They will set up special education calsses
> | where the language of instruction will be Ebonics.  It will operate
> | like any other bilingual education program in California, like the one
> | with Spanish speaking students.  The Board reasoned that black students
> | fall behind in their studies because they do not understand common
> | English instructions.
> | This is another step to divide and not to unite races.  Go figure.
> |
> | Gabor M.
> |
> Gabor, I think that's also majorly wrong, but that's not what I said
> was ridiculous. THis geneti theory of language, and claiming
> that blacks have some genetic reason for not being able to
> learn english is what I called ridiculous.
> Istvan

Haliho, Istvan!

Yes, it is a ridiculous idea for both reasons. If you have ever heard
blacks speak who live in Great Britain, you know that those who are
native-born do not have West Indian or African accents (much as I enjoy
those dialects - West Indian speech is actually very musical and very
expressive). The native English speakers speak the Queen's English just
as well as she does. I think it is an insult to black people to propose
that they cannot learn standard English and it is disproven as well by
many blacks in the States who *do* speak beautiful standard English.
Unfortunately, it is not only among blacks that facility in spoken and
written English is deteriorating; that is true for younger people of all
ethnic groups and I think a big part of it is the failure of the schools
to actually demand that young people learn to speak and write properly. 



Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 
+ - Re: Mulroney (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
>In article >  (aheringer) 
>>In article >,  
>>>In article >,  > 
 (Gyorgy Kovacs) wrote:
>>>>>Remelem nem hagytad ki a legnagyobb kanadai linket (sokan tudhatjak 
>>>>>hogy kire gondolok).   ;->
>>>>Mar megint Mulroney-t piszkalod?!  ;-)))
>>>>Udv,  Dominus
>>>Nem hiszem, hogy arra gondolt.
>>Dehogynem.  Ki masra?  Agnes
>Ki az a Mulroney? GK

Gyurika, tudom, hogy az USA-ban nem sokat tudnak a nagy eszaki 
szomszedrol, de Brian Mulroney vagy 8 evig volt a kozutalatnak orvendo 
prime miniszterunk.

+ - Re: Ferenc Deak. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  
>Does anyone know anything about Ferenc Deak?  1803-1876.  Does anyone 
>know where I could find detailed info on him?  I would be grateful for 
>any help I can get.

I guess, in any Hungarian history book.  He was called "a haza bolcse" - 
"the wise man of the nation".  He was the architect of the final truce, 
the "kiegyezes" in 1986 between Austria and Hungary that lead to the 
Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, a golden, prosperous era which lasted to the 
end of WWI.

+ - Check http://ld.net/?synapse for the best Int l phone r (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Check http://ld.net/?synapse for the best Int'l phone rates
+ - Re: Ordinary Magyars - US Racial Dictionary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Re: Ordinary Magyars - US Racial Dictionary

WASPnot > wrote:
Stuff deleted>>
>>other people that is Mongolian in origin.
Stuff deleted>>

> wrote:
>These kinds of racist pronouncements must have been pretty 
>common around the turn of the century.  That "great" historian, 
>Seton Watson and his circle even extended it to Jews. No wonder 
>Hungary was dealt such a raw deal at Trianon.

(Gyorgy Kovacs) wrote:
|Looks like Maria Egorov (aka MEgorov) has a new screen name at AOL.

Nope, not at all. This is a different person, albeit with the same 
racial attitudes as MEgorov. She was faq'd off by my fumigation process.

                       <MARIA EGOROV FUQ>

      Frequently Unanswered Questions put to Ms Maria Egorov.
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Ms Maria Egorov has been posting anti-Hungarian articles of recent in
several soc.culture.* forums. They are as anti-Hungarian as the postings of
an anti-Semite, and should be exposed and condemned vigorously. The thread
began innocently enough when I posted a list in early July96 of Nobel Prize
recipients who were Hungarian. This brought out the anti-Hungarianism of Ms
Maria Egorov -- an anti-Hungarianism which was as odious as anti-Semitism.

     [ On July 28/96 in >   ]
     [  (Maria Egorov) wrote:                  ]
     [ |And all I want you to do is to give a proper              ]
     [ |identification to those Hungarian scientists. Instead of  ]
     [ |using "Hungarian scientists", use Hungarian Jews. This    ]
     [ |approach is more realistic. We do not want to ignore the  ]
     [ |Jews. DO EW?                                              ]


Contrary to her statement, it was not all she wanted to do -- "to give
proper identification to those Hungarian scientists." Don't be fooled by
the virtual compassion in her phrase, "We do not want to ignore the Jews."
Although she postures with the call not to ignore a people, in this case --
the Jewish people, she has no hesitation to deny another people, in this
case -- Hungarians, their respectful place in the world. It was her clear
intent to deny the Hungarianness altogether. They were "nonHungarians"
according to her lexicon. They were Germans, Slavs or Jews -- anything but
Hungarian. Here is her spiteful quote:

     [  On July 6/96 in >   ]
     [   (Maria Egorov) declared:             ]
     [  |...the Nobel Prize Winners you prezented to us are all  ]
     [  |nonHungarians.(Look Britanica,There are no Hungarin     ]
     [  |Nobel Prize Winners.) They were Germans ,Slavs or Jews. ]

She now claims that "all I want you to do is to give a proper
identification to those Hungarian scientists." But note my July 8/96 reply
below to her outrageous assertion of July 6/96, that the scientists were
"nonHungarian." There was no DENIAL of any Jewishness in my post, no claim
that these scientists were nonJews. I was challenging her claim that the
Nobel recipients were "all nonHungarians.
  [  On July 8/96 in >              ]
  [   (Wally Keeler) wrote:                         ]
  [  |Being born in Hungary's capital city confers no Hungarianness  ]
  [  |upon a person? Growing up within Hungary, within the Hungarian ]
  [  |language, within the Hungarian culture, within the Hungarian   ]
  [  |educational system confers no Hungarianness upon a person? In  ]
  [  |spite of this Wigner and Olah cannot be regarded as Hungarians ]
  [  |or should be regarded as "nonHungarians" as you put it? Please ]
  [  |explain Maria Egorov. Please do.                               ]

I'm sure that soc.culture.magyar, as well as myself, are still interested
in her explanation as to WHY she claimed the scientists were
"nonHungarians." I had asked her the following:
      |"Can you cite any publication in which Wigner or Olah (two
      |Hungarian Nobel recipients who had been born in Hungary 
      |proper, grew up in Hungary, educated in Hungary, etc) had
      |ever denied their Hungarianness? Is there any proof 
      |ANYWHERE that Wigner or Olah covered-up their Hungarianness?"

She has never answered the question or otherwise supported her initial
malicious claim that the abovementioned scientists were "nonHungarian." She
was simply unable to provide any evidence whatsoever. Her contention that
the scientists were "nonHungarian" was intended to belittle the Hungarian
people, and to do so in a spiteful and malicious manner: "Look
Britanica,There are no Hungarin Nobel Prize Winners."

When challenged, Ms Maria Egorov went on to post further spiteful and
malicious statements against the Hungarian people. She was fully cognizant
of what she was posting -- it was intended to have the maximum slander
value. How do we know that this was her intent, and not just a matter of
insensitive carelessness on her part? Because she admonished me and others
who had protested, to "be careful" in our postings. We presume that she
took care to post with precision, as she expected others to do. 
     [ On July 6/96 in >      ]
     [  (Maria Egorov)wrote:                     ]
     [ |Check their names.Reread your history and be careful.       ]

So we got more malicious statements:

  [ On July 7/96  (Maria Egorov) wrote:         ]
  [ |The Hungarians sent over 300,000 Jews to forced labor camps   ]
  [ |and GAS CHAMBERS during WW2. (activity which was concluded    ]
  [ |proudly by the Hungarians, without German supervision).       ]

She claimed that the forced evacuation of Hungarian Jews was "concluded
proudly by the Hungarians." She has been unable to provide any
documentation proving that the MAJORITY of the population of Hungary was
PROUD to evacuate Hungarian Jews to death camps?

Another point to prove her spitefulness and maliciousness against the
Hungarian people can be noticed in the wording of her statement "The
Hungarians sent...". She is sensitive to fine nuances and this is revealed
in her July 28/96 post wherein she states, "Instead of using 'Hungarian
scientists', use Hungarian Jews. This approach is more realistic." She was
striving for completeness of thought, the application of fine detail and
proper nuance to a contention. This nuance and sensitivity was precisely
what I was trying to get at with her when she made the very thoughtless and
malicious statement above. I had asked her: "Would you agree that the
following would be a far more accurate way of stating your contention:

   [ |Many Hungarians sent over 300,000 Jews to forced labor camps  ]
   [ |and GAS CHAMBERS during WW2. (activity which was concluded    ]
   [ |proudly by a few Hungarians, with Nazi supervision).          ]

In spite of the fact that this approach would be more realistic, Ms Maria
Egorov continued with her malicious anti-Hungarian statements. In addition,
she was very grossly wrong to state that there was no nazi supervision.
There was, lots of it, and it was led by none other than the famous Adolf
Eichmann. (One can read about him in the Britannica). He was executed by
Israel for his supervision of the Hungarian Jewish genocide.

Her anti-Hungarian tirade went on with more ludicrous and unsupportable
statements, suggesting that Hungarians dance to the tunes played by
Germans. For instance there was this:

     [ On July 9/96  (Maria Egorov) wrote:     ]
     [ |do you think Albert Einstein after arriving in United     ]
     [ |States, started to yell "I am a German"?.NOT AT ALL.      ]

Being a much more reasonable and logical than she, I replied thusly,
asking for a response:

  [ On July 11/96 in >             ]
  [  (Wally Keeler) replied:                        ]
  [ |I don't think he was yelling any message. I'm a fifth generation]
  [ |Canadian and I've never yelled - "I am a Canadian." NOT AT ALL. ]
  [ |Do you yell out your nationality or ethnicity. The salient point]
  [ |is that Albert never <denied> his roots.                        ]

I asked:
             Do you have any proof whatsoever that Albert 
             Einstein had ever denied his Germanness?

But of course, no such proof exists, never did exist, except in her mind.
She simply lost control of herself and started to post wild statements
which she knew to be false and unsound.

But now she is claiming that "all I want you to do is to give a proper
identification to those Hungarian scientists. Instead of using 'Hungarian
scientists', use Hungarian Jews. This approach is more realistic." The
clear perception of her postings was that she was slandering the
Hungarian people. She ended up making a statement about Hungarian Jews
living abroad that had virtually no foundation in reality. The evidence I
provided exposed the audacious stupidity of her statements.

Ms Maria Egorov wrote:

      [ |The Hungarians sent over 300,000 Jews to forced labor  ]
      [ |camps and GAS CHAMBERS during WW2. (activity which was ]
      [ |concluded proudly by the Hungarians, without German    ]
      [ |supervision). Knowing these facts, do you think it is  ]
      [ |easy for the Jews born in Hungary, survivors of the    ]
      [ |holocaust, (who are living abroad for obvious reasons) ]
      [ |to identify themselves as Hungarians? NOT AT ALL.      ]

I responded:

  [ On July 8/96 in >                ]
  [  (Wally Keeler) wrote:                           ]
  [ |Wrong. The great Hungarian poet, George Faludy, visited my home  ]
  [ |several times. He's a Jew. He suffered at the hands of the Nazis.]
  [ |He also suffered at the hands of the Communists. He is proud of  ]
  [ |his Hungarian identity, his Hungarian language, his Hungarian    ]
  [ |culture. In spite of 20 fruitful and peaceful years in Toronto,  ]
  [ |Canada, his Hungarianness compelled him to return to his beloved ]
  [ |Hungary to end his days in his homeland.                         ]
  [ |                                                                 ]
  [ |A good friend of Faludy's, George Egri, also a Hungarian Jew,    ]
  [ |who lived in Toronto for decades, returned to Hungary after the  ]
  [ |Communists ate dirt. He was a journalist and columnist in        ]
  [ |Toronto. I had many visits with him at his home and mine. When I ]
  [ |met up with him in Budapest, he waxed poetic about being "home,  ]
  [ |I am home again." George Egri also suffered the same situation   ]
  [ | as George Faludy.                                               ]
  [ |                                                                 ]
  [ |Another good friend of George Faludy and George Egri, who is     ]
  [ |also a Hungarian Jew, and who shared their experience in Hungary ]
  [ |-- also had been imprisoned together in the infamous Rajk        ]
  [ |concentration camp, although not returning to Hungary (because   ]
  [ |he has a good life in Canada)does not forsake his Hungarianness. ]
  [ |His name is George Gabori. His experiences can be read in his    ]
  [ |book, WHEN EVILS WERE MOST FREE.                                 ]

And then Maria responds...

     [ On July 9/96  (Maria Egorov) wrote:     ]
     [ |do you think Albert Einstein after arriving in United     ]
     [ |States, started to yell "I am a German"?.NOT AT ALL. Do   ]
     [ |you really think that the Jews from Hungary (those who    ]
     [ |escaped the death camps)came to United States and proudly ]
     [ |said:"I am a Hungarian" or "long live Hungary"? Do you    ]
     [ |really think that these same Jews(only older)would change ]
     [ |their minds just because you changed the government?. Or  ]
     [ |Any gesture of public relation(like inviting Jews to your ]
     [ |home,etc.)will attenuate the pain,but they will definitely]
     [ |not become the Hungarians, Austrians or Germans you wish  ]
     [ |them to be(PERIOD) In the past Hungary, Germany & Austria ]
     [ |called the Slavs,Jews&Gipsies: "RATS"&"SUBHUMAN" This     ]
     [ |mentality still persists in Hungary and it is hidden as   ]
     [ |it is in Germany and Austria of today. In these           ]
     [ |circumstances I know that there are no Jews who would     ]
     [ |proudly say:I am a Hungarian.                             ]

So I replied:

  [ On July 11/96 in >               ]
  [  (Wally Keeler) wrote:                            ]
  [ |If you read George Faludy's autobiographical book, My Happy Days  ]
  [ |In Hell, you'd find that he had no problem with being a Hungarian ]
  [ |and Jew. He made absolutely no effort to hide nor to even play    ]
  [ |down the fact. He was neither ashamed of being Hungarian nor      ]
  [ |Jewish. He certainly didn't BECOME AMERICAN. Although he moved to ]
  [ |Toronto for a couple decades, and appreciated it more than any    ]
  [ |other place, he remained a proud Hungarian and Jew, even with     ]
  [ |Canadian citizenship. I knew other Hungarians and Jews and they   ]
  [ |never expressed the kind of crap you think they do.               ]

I then added the following:
     I overlooked mentioning a friend and ally of the Peoples Republic
     of Poetry, and publisher of many books of poetry and prose, Robert
     Zend, who was also a Hungarian Jew. He was always proud of both
     characteristics and he had never denied those characteristics. At
     poetry readings he was introduced as a Hungarian. The same went
     for George Faludy when I attended his poetry readings. These are
     public affairs. 

     I can mentioned 2nd rate poet and first rate columnist, George 
     Jonas, who is also a Hungarian Jew. (he had once been married to
     "right-wing" columnist, Barbara Amiel, who is now married to
     Canadian and international media mogul, Conrad Black.) In his 
     [Jonas] published works and activities, he had no hesitation in
     declaring his Hungarianness. 

In spite of the fact that I presented several very public Hungarian Jews
who never denied, indeed proclaimed, their Hungarianness, Ms Maria Egorov
        [ |I know that there are no Jews who would proudly say: ]
        [ |I am a Hungarian.                                    ]

So I asked: "Can you name any Hungarian Jew who publicly disavowed his
            Hungarianness? Support your claim."

Of course, in the face of such evidence as I presented, she was at a loss
to support her ludicrous claim. Now she know that there are several, if not
many, Jews who are proud of their Hungarianness. And in spite of her newly
found footing on Earth, claiming that "all I want you to do is to give a
proper identification to those Hungarian scientists. Instead of using
'Hungarian scientists', use Hungarian Jews" -- all of the above mentioned
cultural individuals referred to themselves as Hungarians, for example:

    Faludy is a Hungarian poet, not a Hungarian Jewish poet.
    Egri is a Hungarian author, not a Hungarian Jewish author.

The same for the others. They never attempted to hide their Jewishness.
They were not so ethnocentric as Maria Egorov is. They asserted their
Jewishness without arrogance, just as they asserted their Hungarianness.
But above and beyond their Jewishness and/or Hungarianness, they asserted
their common humanity, something that Maria Egorov in dire need of

And finally there is this silly statement by Maria Egorov:
   [ On July 9/96  (Maria Egorov) wrote:     ]
   [ |Any gesture of public relation(like inviting Jews to your ]
   [ |home,etc.)will attenuate the pain,but they will definitely]
   [ |not become the Hungarians, Austrians or Germans you wish  ]
   [ |them to be(PERIOD)                                        ]

So I asked her:
     "Please explain why you know that George Faludy or George 
     Egri feel angst ("attentuate the pain") whenever they 
     visited my home or when I visited them? Support your claim.

Of course I never received an answer. It would be too much for her,
nevertheless, she has not denied herself the right to ask others in
soc.culture.magyar or elsewhere to support their claims. She expects a
response, however, being the hypocrite that she is, she refuses it to
others. She has made many ludicrous, spiteful and malicious statements the
past couple months. her statements will not go away. Unless she answers
them with proper humility, they will haunt her for as long as she haunts
the soc.culture.* hierarchies. 

Her statement that "all I want you to do is to give a proper identification
to those Hungarian scientists. Instead of using 'Hungarian scientists', use
Hungarian Jews" is an outright lie. What she wanted was racial revenge
against the Hungarian people, to belittle them, to condemn them. I am not
Hungarian in any manner, so there is no ethnic interest on my part to
defend their nation against slanderers like her. I am as appalled by anti-
Semite who slander the Jewish people as I am by people who slander any
nation be it Maria Egorov slandering Hungarians or Gabor Barsai slandering
Canadians. Such people are cut from the same cloth. They need to do some
serious reflection.
+ - Re: Ordinary Magyars - US Racial Dictionary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

From:  (: 20 Dec 1996)
Subject: Re: Ordinary Magyars - US Racial Dictionary
Message-ID: >
References: >

WASPnot > wrote:
>   From 1899 to 1910, inclusive, 338,151 Magyar immigrants were
>admitted to the United States. This number was exceeded by only

|These kinds of racist pronouncements must have been pretty
|common around the turn of the century. That "great" historian,
|Seton Watson and his circle even extended it to Jews. No wonder
|Hungary was dealt such a raw deal at Trianon.

No doubt such racist pronouncements were pretty common in every
society at the turn of the century, including Hungary. The
treatment of Romanians at the hands of Hungarians when
Transylvania was being Magyarized is a case in point. I wonder if
this played a role in the raw deal at Trianon. Then many
Romanians were not nice to some other ethnicity, so they got a
raw deal in the Molotov/Ribbintrop treaty. Territory in Europe
has traded hands so many times as a result of murder, pillage and
other crimes, that perhaps Mark Train was right when he said that
not one square inch of it is now in its original rightful hands.
+ - Re: Mulroney (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Wally (hatred):

>He's a former prime minister of the iceberg north of your brainless head.
>You better bone on up some current events as well as read a book or two
>about contemporary aesthetics my little pseudo-aesthete-elite.

Agnes (humor):

>Gyurika, tudom, hogy az USA-ban nem sokat tudnak a nagy eszaki 
>szomszedrol, de Brian Mulroney vagy 8 evig volt a kozutalatnak orvendo 
>prime miniszterunk.


What a difference favoring the later! Micsoda kulonbseg az utobbi javara!
Koszonom az info-t Agnes!
+ - Re: translation help!! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  says...
>Hi Jenny ,
>Let me know if you need some help with this quite difficult language. I bet
>learning swedish is just as difficult would be for me as hungarian probably
>is for you.
>Bye for now 

Yes, swedish is quite different from hungarian, anyway.
It's closely related to norwegian and danish, and more distant with 
icelandic and german.

I could need some help with the subjective/ objective verbforms.
I don't understand when you use the different forms.
That's the most difficult thing right now.

Jenny Lindskog
+ - Thank you for the translation!!! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I want to thank everyone who so kindly helped me with my
translation. The Hungarians must be the most helpful people in the world!

Christmas Greetings from Jenny Lindskog
+ - Csalad - Family (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Could you help me in finding lids of my family.

My father's name is POLONYI AUREL BELA borned october 15 1913 in
His mother GIBAS ANNA

Also the family of POLONYI MIHALY december 26 1923 in NAGYVARAD (Romania).

Is there a more concerned newsgroup?

english/french/ungarn  angol/franciaul/magyar

My adress  


Polonyi Roland
+ - Re: New, 70K web page for gypsy forger Nikki Sandru (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

) writes:
> Readers of this newsgroup are advised that the internet forger and
> harasser, gypsy Nikki Sandru has an updated web page at:
> with complete examples of his forgery and harassment on the internet.

Poor baby cjames, must have got his pink little cheeks burned from an
acetylene flame Quikki Nikki, or else why would he go to so much trouble
to recruit the rest of the planet in his retribution.

Poor baby cjames.
+ - Re: Mulroney (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

George Kovacs ) writes:
> In article >  (aheringer) writes:
>>In article >,  
>>>In article >,  > wrote:
 (Gyorgy Kovacs) wrote:
>>>>>Remelem nem hagytad ki a legnagyobb kanadai linket (sokan tudhatjak 
>>>>>hogy kire gondolok).   ;->
>>>>Mar megint Mulroney-t piszkalod?!  ;-)))
>>>>Udv,  Dominus
>>>Nem hiszem, hogy arra gondolt.
>>Dehogynem.  Ki masra?  Agnes
> Ki az a Mulroney? GK

He's a former prime minister of the iceberg north of your brainless head.
You better bone on up some current events as well as read a book or two
about contemporary aesthetics my little pseudo-aesthete-elite.
+ - Re: Finnish related to Turkish? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In >  wrote:

> Daniel von Brighoff > wrote:

>>> Sumerian:       ab(-ba) 128,13a (father)
>>> Finnish:        appi (father-in-law)
>>> Hungarian:      apa (father)
>>> Turkish:        aba (")
>>> Mongol:         aav (")

>>> And don't forget the Etruscan "apa" (father)! Same
>>> spelling and meaning as in Hungarian.
>> And German Opa "grandfather" and Zulu baba "father".
>> Say, y'all might be on to something!  Could this be
>> the key to all languages?

> Nicely put.... Just a I was thinking about writing
> something similar...voila.... These people must be
> either extremely self-centered and ignorant or are
> simply anti-intellectual....
> p.s. Don't forget Papa(Spanish), bobo (Cherokee),
> bapa (Andes), babo (Kurdish):):):)
> You guys must be eating your brains for appetizers.

Aren't you smart-alecks getting a little too
arrogant based on so little...?

I'm not even sure if "father/mother" words are
still used in words comparisons anymore... But
the original list compared about 70 words...!

What's the point in picking on one word out of
about 70...? It is perhaps all you are capable
of doing...?

Why don't you guys show us all how much barain
you've got and what you eat for breakafst, by
comparing all 70 words to German, Zulu, Spanish,
Cherokee, Andes and Kurdish (and whatever else
you like)...?

Do you think you can do it...?

If you want to give it a try, I'll be more than
happy to help you out by re-posting the original
list... :)

If you can't do it, then shove your arrogance...!

+ - Sailing Adventures in Canada! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Sailing Adventures in Canada!

Come and sail with us the fjords and islands of beautiful British Columbia
on a 64 feet sailing yacht (check:
http://www.iceonline.com/home/vladimip/atlantis/ for more info) We have
space free starting May 1997 throughout the whole summer.
Email me for more info!

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