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Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Transylvania from Tarna Mare (part 2) (mind)  126 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: 33 (thirtythree) in your lanquage. (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: nemzet (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
4 Old Maps (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Change of ethnic composition in Romania (1) (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: RE> Is that highway paved with gold? (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
7 Req: A small translation from English to Romanian (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: nemzet (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
9 Canada and employment opportunities (mind)  49 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: New Year, new what? (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Old Maps (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
12 do you collect something? (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Re : Population Statistics (mind)  110 sor     (cikkei)
14 ANGYAL HONLAPJA: Lányok álma, Ingyen honlap, világuralo (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: nemzet (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: Information about rommania wanted (mind)  50 sor     (cikkei)
17 Nemzet____? volt: Re: Goncz hazudik (mind)  46 sor     (cikkei)
18 M C Steps In It Again (mind)  176 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: nemzet (mind)  66 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
21 Cenzura a HIX-en ??? (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
22 Attr,athl,intell m seeks Magyar F (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
23 Re: Nemzet____? volt: Re: Goncz hazudik (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
24 Req: small translation from English to Hungarian (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
25 Re: Information about rommania wanted (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
26 Re: Nemzet____? volt: Re: Goncz hazudik (mind)  51 sor     (cikkei)
27 Nemzet____? volt: Re: Goncz hazudik (mind)  85 sor     (cikkei)
28 Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tra (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
29 Re: nemzet (utoljara) (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
30 (no subject) (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
31 Re: *** DOSZ *** #46 (mind)  66 sor     (cikkei)
32 Re: MAKOIAK (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Transylvania from Tarna Mare (part 2) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

By the way, a small correction, the events were happening in Sept. 1927
and not 1926 as I mentioned in part 1 ( Big difference right ! :-)) 

... Next day I woke up quite sad and concerned about my situation.  I was
wondering how in the world I would make it here in this big village
where Romanians forgot their own language, Hungarians spoke their
own, Germans spoke also Hungarian along with their language,
Ruthenians spoke their own and Hungarian as well while Jews seem to
speak their language, Hungarian, German and many of them even
Ruthenian.  Gypsies I didn't see in Tarna Mare.  Well, I said to myself,
we'll see what I can do here.
    I got up that morning and the host brought over some breakfast made
of polenta and milk with coffee.  I was a little surprised, but what can I
do, I ate it all again and went back to school to speak with the director.  It
seemed that an epidemic of " infantile  paralysis" had struck the village
and school courses had been postponed until October 15.
  Since I didn't bring any books with me I asked the director to lend me
some books so I can have something to read for a month.  To my
surprise he told me he had no library of his own and the school had no
books in Romanian in the library.  It turned out that previous Habsburg
regime send no books in Romanian for the state schools and the 8 years
of Romanian administration since the Union had no funds or care  to
provide either.  Tough luck again, I wondered.  Not quite, the other
teacher Ana Sandor, had her own library with Romanian books and as
soon as she arrived on October 1 from vacation I was able to borrow
some Romanian classics including Duiliu Zamfirescu.  I really enjoyed
reading those books because they were so precious at the time.
On October 15 school didn't start because the courses where
postponed again until November 1.  I was done with my books and
looked for other things to do.  The school director was dedicated to his
hobby, hunting, and invited me several times to join him.  The Gutai
Mountains were spread above the village and presented great hunting
grounds for the locals.  The director had many hunting rifles, from those
with two barrels to automatic single barrel rifles.  Every time I
accompanied him we had no luck.  I thought for while that I was either
bad luck or that he was no good.  Actually we spoke all the time and
scared off the game.  He did go alone and got three wild boars, one
of about 100 Kg.  I got half of the big one as a present and spend one
day with my host preparing a giant ham.  We must have eaten
out of it for about a week.
  Many times I took my books up on the mountains surrounding the village
and enjoyed a beautiful countryside that seemed like a fairy tale.  I used
to look across the hills into Czechoslovakia where the Tisa river was
flowing slowly from the Northern Carpathians down to the flatlands.  It
was a serene and beautiful country indeed.
  Before school started another colleague showed up, Glogojanu, who
had spent two years in the military and just returned back.  I discussed
with him the classes and decided to ask and got the first grade pupils.  It
turned out to be a large class of 52 children.  Out of them only the
Romanian ones spoke some broken Romanian while  the others didn't
know a word of it.
  After a month, I changed my host and moved next door to her sister in
law.  She was a much better cook and knew how to take care of the
house very well.  She was a high school graduate and a Ruthenian, but
she didn't know to speak Romanian either.  While I lived in her house I
taught her as much as my pupils irrespective of their ethnic background
and by the end of the school year she knew how to speak pretty well.
    Tarna Mare was indeed as remote as one could get and still be in
Romania, but I did manage to come home to see my family for Christmas
and Easter.  At Christmas that year was very cold and as I remember
even the walnut trees froze in Tarna.  I took the bus to Satu Mare
because they just introduced it that winter but unfortunately the 100 km
was a long distance to spend in an unheated bus.  I got frostbite at both
feet, which seemed to have gotten worse during my train trip from Satu
Mare to Oradea, Arad, Timisoara, Turnu Severin, Filiasi and finally Targu
Jiu.  The train trip took three days and two nights because they had no
express trains.  When I arrived in Targu Jiu I couldn't take out my shoes
and I had to cut them open.  My feet toes were swollen with liquid.  Uncle
Miron, who was during the war a medical assistant and had experience
with frost bite, took me right away to the local hospital and Dr. Haznas
cut my skin to let that liquid out and left me with the open flesh wounds,
cleaned them well and used some medicated cream after which he
bandaged my feet.  Obviously I couldn't wear shoes for a while so my
uncle took me to a store where I bought some galoshes large enough to
fit my bandaged feet.  Later that day I took the bus to Poenari and finally
limping arrived home.
 Besides my regular school work, in Tarna I organized a cultural festival
with the youngsters in the village and invited people all the way from
Halmeu, Satu Mare, from across the border in Czechoslovakia, and even
someone from America who happened to come over to visit his brother
in Tarna Mare, his name was Gheorghe Molnar. It was at the beginning
of January 1928, when the Orthodox faith celebrates the Baptism.
    After the artistic program had finished, the people split in a few
groups, one classroom was for folk dances, one for modern dances and
the third classroom had the food and drinks set up.  Many of my
assistants and colleagues who helped organize the festival ended up
spending their time in the classroom where the drinks were.
  My colleague Glogojeanu and a few partners were also playing a
Hungarian card game "ramszli", similar to poker they said, but I wasn't
sure since I was not much of a card player.  They had been spending
hours at the card table even before the festival.  That night among them
was also Gh. Molnar who came from America with much money so that
he could take care of his brother.  That night his luck seemed to have run
out as it had been the night before along with his money, so that he
started writing IOUs.  The one that cleaned him out was the local
butcher, Balogh, who also ended up with a lot of IOUs as well.  During
the days prior to the festival Molnar and I had become friends and he
seemed to like me.  He even promised me his photo camera.  But events
that night took an unexpected turn.  Balogh had quite a bit of palinka to
drink and became a little annoyed with Molnar's IOUs.  He whispered to
Molnar about immediate payoff for the IOUs because he needed more
money  for drinks.  Molnar told him that can not do that in front of
everybody and they would be better off to go in the back garden.  They
both went in the back of the school garden, and there Molnar instead of
taking some money out of his pocket, took out a metal boxer and hit poor
Balogh a few times with it.  He fell to the ground in the snow, but Molnar
hit him again a few more times until Balogh passed out while he
disappeared into the night like a true American gangster.  Only early in
the morning was Balogh found in the back of the garden, still dazed and
bloodied after the hits he received that night during which Molnar
managed to cross the border into Czechoslovakia and by train went on
to Hamburg.  
 Weeks later I received a letter from Molnar in which he apologized that
he couldn't keep his promise about his photo camera and blamed
everything on Balogh.  He claimed that Balogh cheated him at cards out
of thousands of dollars and even had the nerve the night of the festival
to ask him to pay his IOUs, which he did his own way.  He hoped we
could meet again so that he could keep his promise.  He still haven't met
and think that we never will.
(to be continued)
Translated from " Amintiri dintr-o viata de om ... " de Miron Cosoroaba

Adrian Cosoroaba
+ - Re: 33 (thirtythree) in your lanquage. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
(Berra Hedkvist) wrote:

> In article >, 

> >Can you provide me with your national written 33, or if you have a
> >non-roman lanquage (like China, Japan, Arabic, ... maybe a picture (GIF,
> >TIFF, Anything...) of your national 33
> >Could you also mention in wich lanquage it is?
> >It would be much apprieciated!!
> >

I Urdu (the lanuage of PAKISTAN), it is pronounced "Taintees"
+ - Re: nemzet (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > Peter Szaszvari,
>> ... Kocsis Tamas egy zurichi
>> Ph.D student.
>Ez igaz?

Igen. Meglepett ??

>Mert nagyon szomoru. Azt hittem, hogy ebben a korosztlyban mar 
>elenyeszo a valoszinusege az ilyen nezeteknek.

Ez elsősorban a korosztályomra nézve szégyenletes, meg
rád, hogy Te ezt elfogadod. Valóban más értékek dívnak, elkurvult
ez az ország. De tévedsz, ha azt hiszed, hogy az utánunk jövő
korosztályok olyanok, mint ahogy azt ti szeretnétek.  

>Nemi magyarazatot jelenthet a  hosszas izolacio ha fennall

Nem hiszem, hogy az elmúlt években keményedtek volna politi-
kai nézeteim. Inkább az ellenkezője az igaz, ma már vitatkozok,
és időként már az érvek előtt is hajlandó vagyok meghajolni.

>es a rossz tarsasag (Z.-i "tarsasagi" magyarok)

Nem tartok emigransokkal semmiféle kapcsolatot. Rosszak az
itteni tapasztalataim. (Nem mintha a korábbi, angliai tapasz-
talataim jobbak lennének.)

Fel sem merül benned, hogy esetleg otthonról hozhatom a néze-
teimet, mert így neveltek ?

+ - Old Maps (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Does anyone out there have or know where I can get  maps of the
German, Austrian, Ottoman and Russian empires in electronic format
(gif, bmp, jpg)? Web sites, ftp sites--anything will be appreciated.


+ - Re: Change of ethnic composition in Romania (1) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> In article >, vovos  > wrote:
> >Quod erat demontstratum: the Romanians formed always, al times, the majority
> Your statement is even less accurate than your spelling of that Latin
> phrase.  ;-)
> Panonescu
> PS:
> Hungarian proverb: He who does not know Arabic, should not speak
> Arabic.

You forgot to read the rest. I'm not big in Latin, as well in English, 
as you're not in Romanian ... and you are too sensitive to the 
unsignificant details.
So, read again : the magyars never formed a majority in Transilvania. Try 
to demonstrate the contrary.

+ - Re: RE> Is that highway paved with gold? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > Lee Laborczfalvi,
> It is now a fact of life that citizens of any country (not just 
>Hungary) will have to operate on a user-pays system.  This is the most 
>logical solution to obtaining new infrastructure in a country.

I don't agree. It was not done this way in Europe. When the European
ries were building up their highway systems before or after WWII, they all
did it from central gov't sources . The development of the infrastructure
was a central part of their economy, an important point where the gov't
could pour money into the system causing considerable growth without

The recent direction to tolled highways is a direction of a post-indust-
rialist nation. They, their economy  can afford such steps, their develop-
ment of their infrastructure goes now into different directions than 50
years ago. (railways forexample, because of environmental reasons)

Hungary is at the beginning of building its highway system. In this
we are 50 years behind  Europe. It is not the same that in other countries
where there are thousands of kilometers of road and a new, 100 km private
payroad will be  built somewhere. There, it counts nothin'.  In case of
infrastructural developments of such extent have very large impact on 
the economy. It would not be wise to let such strong economical tools
out of hand. It has to be done  with other regional development programs
together. That can not be controlled by a group of private investor. It
is too big, and risky investment. It used to be a gov't task.

+ - Req: A small translation from English to Romanian (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Could you please translate this letter for us? Thank you!

>Dear Soos,
>Here are your two Belgian friends, Ana and Karcsi. How are you?
>And how are your glasses?
>Did you weave another sharf? Do you still argue a lot with Toto Torok? Also a 
lot of greetings to him and to all the other men. Say they have to write us
>Many greetings,
> Karcsi and Ana.        

>                        See you next year!!!!



+ - Re: nemzet (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
   Gabor Elek > wrote:
> ... Kocsis Tamas egy zurichi
> Ph.D student.

Ez igaz? Mert nagyon szomoru. Azt hittem, hogy ebben a korosztlyban mar 
elenyeszo a valoszinusege az ilyen nezeteknek. Nemi magyarazatot jelenthet a 
hosszas izolacio ha fennall es a rossz tarsasag (Z.-i "tarsasagi" magyarok)


Peter Szaszvari
+ - Canada and employment opportunities (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Canada, employment, immigration.

The Canadian government is currently issuing permanent residence visas to 
qualified professionals and skilled persons under the "Independent" 
Category, who possess a variety of attributes including education and 
employment experience which are compatible with occupations "open" to 
prospective immigrants to Canada.  There is no requirement under this 
category to obtain an approved job offer from a perspective Canadian 

Canada also admits immigrants under the Business Class, which comprises 
of four sub-categories including Entrepreneur, Investor, Self-Employed 
and Family Business Offer of Employment.

If you are contemplating opportunities in North America, why not consider 
exploring the Canadian labour/business market?

Interested readers are encouraged to browse our World Wide Web site 
which can be located at the URL:  http://www.singer.ca/ 

Our site, in conjuction with the Canadian Citizenship and Immigration 
Resource Center, provides access to a number of our opinions and 
publications in the field including the CANADIAN IMMIGRATION FAQ.
The site also contains detailed information regarding settlement in

Prospective applicants for Canadian permanent residence, who wish
to receive a confidential assessment of their qualifications for
permanent residence at no charge, kindly provide us with the
following information:

   *nationality         *current place of residence
   *immigration status  *age
   *marital status      *number of accompanying dependent children
   *education profile   *employment experience
   *language abilities in the english and french languages
   *personal net worth  
   *indication of previous applications for Canadian permanent residence
   *ability and willingness to travel to the United States
   *presence of close family members in Canada

COLIN R. SINGER & Associates        | 4999 Ste Catherine West; Suite 301 

Barristers & Solicitors             | Montreal, QC, Canada H3Z 3T1 

Canadian and Quebec Immigration Law | Tel: (514) 487-2011 Fax:(514)487-2385

    E-mail:    World Wide Web Site http://www.singer.ca/
+ - Re: New Year, new what? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

To Jorma:

You wrote why EU will need Slovakia as a member regardless of present 
state of politics there. Even if it were true, I wouldn't be happy if our 
admission was based upon those reasons. It looks to me like some kind of 
blackmail which we can see coming from Russia: "we will not threaten you 
if we get huge economic assistance from you." I don't want to see my 
country acting at this level.

Peter Hakel
+ - Re: Old Maps (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

freezeout ) wrote:
: Does anyone out there have or know where I can get  maps of the
: German, Austrian, Ottoman and Russian empires in electronic format
: (gif, bmp, jpg)? Web sites, ftp sites--anything will be appreciated.

: Thanks!


as in:
Federation of East European Family History Societies


+ - do you collect something? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

hi there,do you collecting something and you looking for something
from holland?
let me know,i collect telephonecards and want to trade it against
sorry that i put this message in a soc.cult area but in the
specialised areas for collectors i don't get a reply.
bye rob
+ - Re: Re : Population Statistics (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 () wrote:

>>Can somebody disregard also the self-dissolution of the 
>>Austrian-Hungarian Empire,
>I always have to laugh reading about the collapse of the Monarchy as
>"self-dissolution."  You know darn well that it collapsed due to
>losing the war.  The victors did not even allow the Habsburgs to
>continue as rulers even if Austria or Hungary would have wanted to keep

Are you taking this for granted? Even if it would have been so, 
can you say that the dissolution was imposed from outside? For 
sure, the war contributed a lot, an the communist movements did. 
But also the political class had to change, although I would not 
say it was decadent, but it was out of fashion (I'm just thinking 
at Arthur Schitzler's novels, and to the memories of Canetti).

>>separation intervened? Was it imposed at Trianon? I would say no.
>>The principle of self-determination was not even imposed 
>>automatically to the looser, but a consultation of the ethnic 
>>communities was organized in the concerned territory (with the 
>>technical accuracy allowed by the harsh post-war and pretty 
>>primitive times).

>Oh, come now.  Holding genuine plebiscites was not beyond the technical
>means of the time, yet they did not order them.  Instead, they let a
>handful of self-appointed leaders act in behalf of national groups.
>Like Masaryk and Benes for the Czechs and Slovaks, and Bucharest for
>the Transylvanian Romanians.  What "consultation of ethnic communities"
>are you talking about?  Don't tell me about Alba Iulia, please.  We
>covered that charade a few times already.

Well, I'm telling you about Alba Iulia. Unfortunately, I am not 
aware of the previous discussion, so that I am really interested 
in what kind of arguments were made. Could you summarize them 
(even through E-mail) for me? Please?
Until them, I do not see any reason not to believe that A.I. was 
the appropriate consultation of that ethnic groups. I will 
mention that many Hungarians from Romania mention the plebiscite 
(adding that promises were made, later forgotten).

>>The history is ironical: in 1919, the then Prime-minister of 
>>Romania, Ion I.C. Bratianu, and the diplomats persuaded their 
>>counter-parts at the negotiation that the new border be settled 
>>more to the west, near Szeged, and including Debrecen, so that 
>>the whole Romanian population be included in the Romanian 
>You mean even Debrecen had Romanian majority?  That sure would be news
>to most Hungarians.  But, I guess, if attached to the rest of the
>aquisition and looking at the total, you could still end up with
>a Romanian majority. 

I didn't say that, and it is obvious that in that area the 
majority was Hungarian. Probably this was the outstanding reason 
to abandon the plan.

>> Consequently, King Ferdinand I and Queen Maria decided 
>>to travel there, following the trace of the projected border (the 
>>area seemed to be previously "cleaned" of the communist  
>>administration by the Romanian troops). On this travel by horse, 
>>The King was welcomed by the local population (probably in a 
>>selective manner, but anyway...). While at Debrecen, The King has 
>>received, among others, a delegation leaded by a certain Miklos 
>>Horthy, which kissed the royal hand and advanced the proposal 
>>made by a part of the Hungarian nobility, that King Ferdinand 
>>should accept to take the Crown of Hungary and thus create a 
>>personal union and cure future litigation between Hungarians and 

>I have to admit, I never heard of this particular story before and
>it sounds quite bizarr to me.  Especially the Horthy bit.
>Perhaps Eva knows something about it. 

It was bizarr for me as well, but I trust the source. Anyway, I 
am looking too for comments from Eva or other people informed.

>> Unfortunately, and shamely, I have to recognize that I 
>>cannot remember how did the King refused, and for what reasons 
>>the "westward" frontier project failed (for the Romanians, I read 
>>this facts in a book published in Bucharest in 1981 or '83 - 
>>"Romania and the Paris Peace Conference" - and co-authored, among 
>>few others by Viorica Moisuc and (?) Ion Calafeteanu. I dare to 

>Considering the year and place of the publishing, I am perhaps allowed
>to maintain my scepticism about the whole story.

Yeah, it was a time when much garbage was published on certain 
issues. Still, for the readers interested in history and knowing 
the work of different authors (and reading on history from 
different sources) it was possible to distinguish between 
credible researches and incredible writings. At least the 
mentioned authors were well-known as serious and "rabbits" of the 

Best wishes,

+ - ANGYAL HONLAPJA: Lányok álma, Ingyen honlap, világuralo (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Üdvözlök mindenkit,

bemutatom az új honlapomat! Gyüjtött legérdekesebb magyar és nemzetközi kapcsol
tartalmaz. (Egyenlöre) ez a címe:


Nézze meg! Megéri!
+ - Re: nemzet (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Elek  > wrote:

> legalabbis biztos nem, hogy arrol erdemben beszelni lehetne. Viktorianak
> a Magyar Piac Part foidiotajanak (Stolmar G.Ilona a "becsuletes" neve)
> egyik nyilasabol szokott a "nemzetidegen, bolsevikliberalis, szadeszavos"
> szoveg omleni, de SGI egy antiszemita vadszamar, Kocsis Tamas egy zurichi
> Ph.D student. Tobbet varok tole. (megj. mielott Joseph R. Pannon elkezdene
> a rutinjat arrol, hogy esetleg SGI nem Viktoria, tudom, hogy SGI tobbszor
> irt neked, kedves Joe, azt is tudom, hogy elkerte a telefonszamod es te vona-
> kodtal megadni, azt is tudom, hogy kozolte veled, hogy o Viktoria, OK ??)

No ne mond!  Csak nem neked kuldte tevedesbol a nekem szant levelet?
Egyebkent azok utan, ahogy te ocsarolni szoktad annak idejen a CSEPPSZ
tagjait allitolagos szemelyeskedeseikert, a fenti, Viktoriarol irt
megjegyzeseidet hogyan kategorizalhatjuk?  Eleg tipikus rad, hogy ha
nincsenek erdembeli erveid, akkor ocsmany szemelyeskedesekkel tamadod az
illetot.  Ezt a jellembeli hibadat azert nem lehet feledteteni legutobbi
konyvtarlatogatasodon kijegyzetelt nevek es eszmek csillogtatasaval.
Kar, mert jozanabb pillanataidban valoban elvezetes dolgokat is tudsz

J. R. P.
+ - Re: Information about rommania wanted (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

: In article >,  > wrote:
: >By the way Valmossy's flame refers to an overreaction of Iliescu to the fact
: >that the Hungarian national Day had been celebrated with hymn and flags in 
: >*Romanian official buildings* leading to some national tentions in the 
: >country. And pointing the attention to this single aspect is like 
: >saying Hungary is the country which has brought the earthly rests of its
: >Nazi president Horty (Hitler's friend and ally) and burried them with honour
: >after 1990.
: It's bad enough that you can't even spell Vamossy's name right, it's
: even worse you then go on to distort the historical record about Horthy
: who was neither a Nazi, nor a friend or willing ally of Hitler.
: In fact, after Horthy's declaration of cessation of hostilities against
: the Allies, the Nazies, occupying Hungary, have imprisoned Horthy and
: sent his son to the Mauthausen concentration camp while they placed 
: their puppets in charge of Hungary.  This was recognized by the victors
: after WW II by not charging Horthy with war crimes and let him live
: out the rest of his life in exile.  His body was reburied in Hungary
: recently in a private ceremony, organized by the surviving members of
: his family and the associatation of former Hungarian navy men.  It was
: not a government ceremony even though the Hungarian media covered it
: prominently.

William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" paints a rather
different picture of the relationship between the good Admiral and the
little corporal from Braunau. In fact, he claims that Hitler and his
generals felt Hungarian and Polish support and guarantees to be a
sine qua non of the desctruction of Czechoslovakia in 1938.

When Operation Barbarossa was launched, Hitler had planned that Hungary
remain neutral, but insistent importuning by Hungary achieved its
desired aim, and Hungary entered the war despite Hitler's plan that it
should stay neutral.

By the time the good Admiral decided to change sides, it was too late.
The Red Army was in HUngary, and the war was over bar the shouting. Only
Hungary and Croatia were still allied with Germany in Europe. By this
time Hitler had sent other collaborators and allies to concentration
camps as well.

Quite a few others avoided eing tried for alleged war crimes, despite
the facts. That is not to say that I consider trials for war crimes to
be acceptable or reprehensible, but managing to avoid them was no
difficult task for all but a token number of conspicuous people and
to some extent for some petty perpetrators who did not have access to
a network of assistance.

+ - Nemzet____? volt: Re: Goncz hazudik (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>Azt akarod bebizonyitani, hogy a haboru utani Magyarorszag onknt es da-
>lolva valt szovjet gyarmatta ? Nekem ugy remlik, mintha a vesztes olda-

Nem. Viszont ha 1050 ev "nemzetfogalom" fejlodeset 20 ev alatt lehetett
helyettesiteni a "proletar internacionalizmussal" (amint irtad), akkor
szerintem ott baj van. Es azt is irtam, hogy ez szerintem megturt allapot volt.
Hogy ebbol mit olvasol ki, az a Te dolgod.

Viszont a MASZOP vegul is, valasztassal kerult hatalomra...

>Itt tevedesben vagy: a nemesseg volt a nemzet. Kiraly vagy megfelelo
>orokos hianyaban joguk volt "a sajat kis onos erdekeikre" figyelni. Tobb
>versenyzo eseten ok  dontottek, hogy ki legyen a kiraly, hozzajarulasuk
>nelkul nem lehetett koronazni. Torvenyesen volt igy.

Ertem. Mindenki torvenyesen dolgozott, es igy kerult az orszag egy resze a 
torok uralma ala.

>Kadar politikaja sokkal inkabb nemzetellenes volt, mint Ceausescu

Ceausescu-rol ket roman velemeny (nev es cim nalam):

I think the guy had to much " Eger's blood" and got "a little confused".
Ceausescu was anything but friendly.  His bullshit was"nation-friendly"
but that didn't mean shit.  I read a book by former Romanian Spy general
who defected to the US, "Red Horizons" by Ion Pacepa.  Ceausescu
used to dislike Hungarians in general but especially Kadar, and privately
used to call him a "PIG".  In his furry used to mention that in the past
Romanian troops occupied Budapest so Kadar should watch out.
Anyway, I can't think of anything friendly about Ceausescu.  Your guy
on SCM should read that book.

well, i think "nation-friendly" is a misleading epithet.  in my opinion,
ceausescu's policies did more harm to romania, romanians, and
hungarian_romanians than what many outside "enemies" could have ever done.  as
far as kadar's policies, i am afraid i do not have enough knowledge to give my
opinion on....."nation-friendly"????.....give me a break, the guy must have had
too much palinka or something! ;-)

(A "guy" a Kocsis Tamas).

+ - M C Steps In It Again (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Oali feels...PENETRATED !
Date: Sat Jan 20 16:40:32 1996

Wally the Killer wrote:
:Nothing unusual about that. He made a big bragging bag about himself being
:highly literate in umpteen languages and claimed to speak Hungarian
:without an accent. He's a little better in English than the average prole,
:but that's all. The man is, by and large, a fraud.

Joan of Mark (Hermes1 >) wrote:
$But I promise you that if Panonica ticks me off enough, some day I will
$make time to give him a comprehensive flame in his native tongue.
$I think I may be able to pack as much, or more juice than I can in

The Magyars I've consulted with say you pack as much juice as a raisin left
out in the sun for three years.

:Mark is simply a Hun-hater, and he will tag his racist feelings onto any
:target that will provide him (in his own estimation) with some semblance
:of legitimacy.

Joan of Mark wrote:
$This is game for you, and since you are not open to dialog I have no time
$to play it.

You are the one not open to dialogue. You make a statement with no
substantiation. You simply vomit hatred against the entire community of
Gypsies. You make the claim that the reason Romanians burn down the homes
of Gypsies was because there is no judicial reprisal against Gypsies. But
this is not true. The case of the Gypsy being convicted for murder didn't
stop the burnings. The fact that it was Magyars & Gypsies that were
convicted in Tirgu Mures for the 1990 disturbances and not Romanians, makes
no wit of difference to you. The fact that Romanian miners sacked Gypsy
homes in Bucharest without judicial reprisal doesn't matter. The fact that
Gypsy homes are burnt with no judicial reprisal against the Romanians
involved is largely the cause of more burnings. The local police forces,
made up of Romanians, will not take any legal action against Romanians. It
is all too similar with the scenario of white cops in Alabama towns taking
care of their "good ole boys" against the niggahs. Well, you can stand
beside your Red Neckescu, but we know you are wrong. It doesn't help the
dialogue to scream Nazi Death Camp slogans. That's not dialogue Mark. 

:Note the sodomy theme -- his obssessed imagery. He is always making
:fanatasies of penetrating other peoples bodies. Note that the penetration
:is always and invariable with inanimate objects. Obviously the man is

$I guess that after posting the 'limerick' you must have felt penetrated.
$Thank you for this compliment, even if it come in such a roundabout way.

This is the "limerick" in question. Note the quality compared to my real
limerick. This is case of Mark's deluding himself with self-importance even
in matters as small as limericks. His "limerick" is of such poor quality
that one could not but laugh at such peurile feebleness. Check it out

$$Oali Chilar
$$A PC_Pillar
$$Wuz gonna sit
$$But took a hit
$$Up the cheeks
$$Like other geeks
$$Oali Chilar
$$A PC_Pillar
$$Is very sad
$$Cause of Vlad
$$Stuck a pillar
$$Up his cheeks
$$When he speaks
$$He only squeeks
$$Cause the pillar
$$Is now a killer
$$Up his cheeks
$$When he speaks.

The Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetry & Poetics describes a limerick thusly: 
      "A verse form composed of five lines rhyming aabba, of 
      which the first, second, and fifth are trimeter and 
      the third and fourth dimeter. The dominant rhythm is 
      anapestic, and the final line is often a repetition, 
      or varied repetition, of the first."

On this basis, Mark Cristian's attempt at a limerick failed on EVERY count;
consequently, it is concluded that the man does not have a clue about
poetry. Now for an example of the dynamics of a limerick:

             There was a dumb Mark of the Lark
             who was sadly considered a shark;
             when he said, "I will shake it,"
             they gave him a stakette
             which grieved that Joan of the Mark

Aside from the simplicity and ease with which limericks are created (a
child's feat which is beyond Mark Cristian's abilities)...

What Mark wrote was pure doggerel. This is what the Princton Encylcopedia
says about doggerel: "Rough, poorly constructed verse. characterized by
strong. monotonous rhyme and rhythm, cheap sentimentality, triviality, and
lack of dignity. Dr. Johnson stigmatized the vice in the following parody:
       As with my hat upon my head
       I walk'd along the Strand,
       I there did meet another man
       With his hat in his hand.
Northrop Frye (in The Anatomy of Criticism, 1957) has characterized
doggerel as the result of an unfinished creative process, in which a 'prose
initiative' has never assumed the associative qualities of true poetry,
revealing its failure in a desperate attempt to resolve technical
difficulties through any means which suggest themselves."

Joan of Mark barks:
$With a hide and skull, so figuratively thick as yours, what else can one
$do but hope that in some way, novel ideas may stand even a slight chance
$of penetrating.

I create novel ideas. Poets and artists do that. They do it far in excess
of busynest types like you. Poets and artists swim in novel ideas. Your
ideas are of the past -- it is why you can't take your mind off of the
medieval stake, or think of any other form of judicial retribution other
than Nazi death camps. Your ideas, as you have posted them, are old and
rusted out (doggerel). Give us a novel idea Mark. Give us a novel metaphor.
Give us anything novel. C'mon, give us your novel associative. Your posts
are banal and mediocre. In this regard, you are but a smidgeon of
post-nutritive disposal substance left out in the sun too long to be of any
use. I can outshine you any day of the week fartface. 

:|There it is in black and white again: clergymen involving themselves in
:|politics deserve what's coming to them.  Thanks for making it so clear

$Whether they deserve it or not, may be up to whatever god gave them the
$franchise for the religion business ! It is obvious but to the morons,
$that once they go in to politics, they are at the same risk a politician
$takes. Such a risk is public ridicule, as I have applied such around here.

For sure you have applied it around here, lots of it, but sadly, it is of
such low quality, marked by mediocrity and banality, lacking in wit,
novelty and creativity -- the lack of fresh metaphors or similes or
analogies. It just doesn't compare with the much higher quality of my
ridicule of you. 

$It takes the sick mind of Panonescu and Oali to see murder. We haven't
$even gotten to character assassination, yet.

You mean like the Predators=Gypsies assassination you grovel in?
If it's your character, it's been dead for 20 years, so there's no
assassination in that regard. We just like to kick your carcass around --
like when I posted the immensely humourous and witty: CEAUSESCU IS A
WARRIOR which was a take off on your idiot pronouncement. (Ha ha ha)

It takes a stupid mind like Joan of Mark to claim:

   $Mark Cristian wrote:
   $$No matter how loose your interpretation of what I meant, or what I may
   $$approve of, the fact remains that, this is a risk a politician takes 
   $$more often than 'a pasztor'.

   Wally Keeler wrote:
   How many politicians were gunned down during communist rule in Romania?  
   How many members of the clergy were killed via                           
   imprisonment/torture/beatings etc? How many politicians were killed      
   during Soviet rule compared to the number of clergy who were killed. In  
   those times and circumstances, it was the Pasztors who bore the lethal   
   risks, not the other way around. Your postulate Mark may be applicable   
   in the advanced western countries, but it don't fly in your homeland.    
   This may change of course, but in the meantime, your postulate is as     
   valid as your trashy "limericks."

Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
+ - Re: nemzet (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
   T. Kocsis > wrote:

>Ez elsősorban a korosztályomra nézve szégyenletes, meg
>rád, hogy Te ezt elfogadod. Valóban más értékek dívnak, elkurvult
>ez az ország. De tévedsz, ha azt hiszed, hogy az utánunk jövő
>korosztályok olyanok, mint ahogy azt ti szeretnétek.  

Ki az a "Ti". En itt egyedul ulok es csak remenykedem, hogy van aki hasonloan 
gondolja. Maskulonben nem szegyellem magam. Engem erre nem tanitottak, hanem 
teljesen magamtol utalom a zsidozast, ciganyozast, arabozast, magyarozast es 
minden mas -ozast. (Lasd korabban a kedelyeskedo tortenetet a ciganyrol aki 
inni szeretett volna, hanynom kellett)
Nem latom ertelmet mindennek. Ugy tekintem az ember esendo, igy ha nem erzi 
jol magat eloszor masokban keresi ennek okat. Node ez minimum butasag.

Nem latom ertelmet az afeletti buszkesegnek sem, hogy az ember az egyik 
orszagban szuletik, es nem a masikban.
Sok masok szamara trivialis fogalomnak keresem de nem lelem ertelmet.
Mi az a "Nemzeti" gondolkodas? Az egy logikusabb vagy etikusabb vagy barmilyen 
ertelemben alkalmasabb fajtaja a gondolkodasnak? Jobb valaszokat ad az?
Es kinek?
>Nem tartok emigransokkal semmiféle kapcsolatot. Rosszak az
>itteni tapasztalataim. (Nem mintha a korábbi, angliai tapasz-
>talataim jobbak lennének.)

Vesd ossze:

>FROM: T. Kocsis >
>SUBJECT: Re: Goncz hazudik
>DATE: 15 Jan 1996 12:48:24 GMT

>Hahaha, most látom, hogy itt vagy  szomszédban. No nem baj.
>BTW: pénteken volt egy koncert a városban, Ligeti György
>darabokat énekelt egy itteni kórus *magyarul*. A koncertet
>kocsmázással egybekötött politizálás kovette az Altstadt-ban.

En valoban (!) nem jarok ilyenekre.

>Fel sem merül benned, hogy esetleg otthonról hozhatom a néze-
>teimet, mert így neveltek ?

Most el kell hinnem, de megegyszer hangsulyozom, sajnalom.

Apropo, mi a baj az ertelmiseggel? Hallhatnank errol valami kezzelfoghatot.
K.T. rendszeresen szitokszokent hasznalja az ertelmisegi jelzot.
K.T.ertelmiseginek tartja magat?

En igen, bar nem tartozom semmilyen "kasztba". Azt hittem eddig ertelmiseginek 
lenni az gondolkodasmod, kiallas, az elvek az atlagosnal valamivel elorebb 
helyezese. Nem gondoltam, hogy ez egyszeruen disznosag. Hol kell jelentkezni 
abba a kasztba? (Bar ugyse mennek.)

Hogyan akadalyozom en, vagy barki mas, hogy a videk magyarsaga ervenyesitse 
akaratat (es "cseresznyepalinkat igyon")?

(Egy ideje ha a menzara megyek, kicsit tartok tole, hogy hirtelen kapok egy 
nagy pofont egy ismeretlentol. Valahogy ez kovetkezne itt.)

Peter Szaszvari
+ - Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

"I love you" in Laotian is " Koy huck jow"
+ - Cenzura a HIX-en ??? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Mivel nem mindent olvasok el, valami elkerulhette
a figyelmemet.

  Hetek ota tobb utalast latok valami cenzurara, amit
Hollosi Jozsefnek tulajdonitanak.
Fel tudna valaki vilagositani engem, a beavatalant,
hogy mirol van szo? Ki cenzurazott ki kit, mikor,
es termeszetesen valami kezzelfoghatot is, ami
alatamasztja az allitast?

+ - Attr,athl,intell m seeks Magyar F (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

For marriage. Western Canada, Central Europe and everywhere.
I am seeking an attractive, romantic female.
Sean 403-433-9209
+ - Re: Nemzet____? volt: Re: Goncz hazudik (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>In article > Gabor Barsai,
>>Nezz a terkepre. En nem talalom rajta az OMM-t (marmint 1996-ban). Ha az OMM
>>politikusainak az volt a celja, hogy az OMM megszunjon, akkor remek munkat
>Ha azt hiszed, hogy az OMM magatol szunt meg, akkor ajanlom Kissinger
>tavalyi konyvet, amiben egy egesz fejezetet szan az OMM letrejotte
>es megszunese okainak tisztazasara.

Nyilvan nem "magatol" szunt meg.

>>Ha neked nem tetszik ahogy en latom a dolgokat, es szerintem nincs igazad,
>>tegy a kill-file-odba.
>Soha nem volt kill-fajlom es nem is lesz, mivel van eleg erom szembenezni
>a vilaggal, nem kezdek el hisztizni, ha olyan velemennyel talalkozom, ami
>mexokottnal nagyobb mertekben ter el a sajatomtol.

En nem igy vettem eszre, de legyen tied az utolso szo.


> Tamas
+ - Req: small translation from English to Hungarian (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


Could you please translate this letter for us? Thank you!
I posted this message before, but I made the mistake of askin a 'Romanian' tran
slation instead of a magyar. Sorry!

>Dear Soos,
>Here are your two Belgian friends, Ana and Karcsi. How are you?
>And how are your glasses?
>Did you weave another sharf? Do you still argue a lot with Toto Torok? Also a 
lot of greetings to him and to all the other men. Say they have to write us
>Many greetings,
> Karcsi and Ana.        

>                        See you next year!!!!

+ - Re: Information about rommania wanted (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Would you guys mind keeping your tribal wars in newsgroups where
they belong?


Luc Bauwens                        
The University of Calgary,         Department of Mechanical Engineering
Phone: (403) 220 5792	           Fax: (403) 282 8406
+ - Re: Nemzet____? volt: Re: Goncz hazudik (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>In article > Gabor Barsai,
>>[..] ha 1050 ev "nemzetfogalom" fejlodeset 20 ev alatt lehetett
>>helyettesiteni a "proletar internacionalizmussal" (amint irtad), akkor
>>szerintem ott baj van.
>Nem kellett husz ev, '49-re megcsinálták. Valóban volt egy nagy baj:
>itt volt a testvéri feszabadító szovjet hadsereg.


>Hasonló körülmények között bármelyik európai ország török gyarmatt
>változottvolna. A magyar nemzet igen nagy ellenállóképességről tett
>tanubizonyságot.  Kellett az ahhoz, hogy európa Magyarország területére
>tudja lokalizálni a háborút.  Balkánon a török úgy jött át mint kés a
>minden magyar igyekezet ellenére. Az ottani népek alkalmatlanok voltak
>arra a szerepre, amire mio alkalmasak lettünk. A törökök a frontot gond
>nélkül ki tudták volna tolni akár Salzburgig is, ha nincs itt egy nemzet,
>amit meg lehet szervezni ellenük. Szulejmán is nagyot hibázott, mikor
>Mohács után hazament, és a szokásos török taktikázással akarta továb-
>bővíteni a birodalmát, holott azonnal el tudott volna jutni, és bevehette
>volna Bécset. (Valószinüleg ma negyvenmilliós nemzet lennénk)

Igen, ez valoszinuleg igaz.

>Whereas Hungary is the world record holder in  debt / citizen, the
>word 'magyar' is driven out of the Hungarian political vocabulary;
>if someone dare to say it, automatically becomes fascist & anti-
>semitic. During Kadar, Hungary has lost its "immune system", now
>2/3 of the nation's property were squandered to foreigners. Kadar
>managed to regress the Hungarian Army (which had fought against
>him in 1956 and he never could trust in them) to that extent that
>we hardly can defend ourselves and have to beg to NATO for mili-
>tary patronage.
>The first word which come into my mind when I hear nation is
>sovereignty.  Well, Cheausescu made much better work to keep
>his nation sovereign than Kadar.

Szerintem ez nincs igy, Nic ugyanugy tonkretette a Roman Hadsereget, mint a 
Kadar a Magyart.

A falurombolas, szemelyikulusz, Bukarest lerombolasa (muemlekekkel)...stb.
szerintem jobban artott a Roman nemzeti gondolatnak, mint a puha diktatura. Ez 
szemelyes velemeny, lehet benne hiba.

+ - Nemzet____? volt: Re: Goncz hazudik (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>>Velemenyem szerint az Osztrak-Magyar Monarchia korszakanak es az utana
>>kovetkezo Horthy korszak politikusai erosen korlatoztak a "nemzet politikai
>Szivesen latnek nehany tenyt, ervet a kijelentesed alatamasztasara: mikor,
>hol, hogyan.

Nezz a terkepre. En nem talalom rajta az OMM-t (marmint 1996-ban). Ha az OMM
politikusainak az volt a celja, hogy az OMM megszunjon, akkor remek munkat

Ugy latom, Magyarorszag terulete kisebb, mint 100 evvel ezelott. Ha a magyar
politikusoknak az volt a celja, hogy Kolozsvar a Roman allamhoz tartozzon,
akkor irto jo sakkhuzas volt.

Ugy emlekszem, a Don-kanyarnal nem a Magyar hadsereg kerult ki gyoztesen.

>es csilingelne, akkor O lenne a villamos. De nem fogom. Van a peldadnak
>egy olyan retege, amivel szamos esetben talalkoztam, maskor masoknal.
>Ertelmisegi szuklatokoruseg, feudalista kasztszellem nyoma fedezhet
>fel, meghozza irritaloan magas - miert nem esznek kalacsot ? - mennyi-

Koszonom a dicseretet, bar nem tudom minek koszonhetem, en nem szemelysekedtem
veled, nem akasztottam rad semmilyen jelzot, nem itelkeztem feletted.
Gondolom, ilyesfajta gondolatok jutnak eszedbe reggel, amikor a tukorbe nezel.
Bar en inkabb a szuklatokoruseget abban latom, hogy mindenki, aki nem olyan,
mint te, az "irritalo".
En inkabb Lao-Tzu-t ideznem:

"The intelligent man is not wishful. He accepts what others wish for
themselves as his wish for them. Those who appear as good, he accepts, and
those who appear as bad, he accepts, for nature accepts both. Those who appear
as faithful, he accepts, and those who appear as unfaithful, he accepts, for
nature accepts both. The intelligent man treats every kind of nature
impartially. And wishes good to one as another."

Avagy (szabad forditasban):

"Az ertelmes ember nem kivano's. Amit masok kivannak sajat maguknak, elfogadja
mint az O kivansagat nekik.
Azokat, akik jonak tunnek, elfogadja, es azokat, akik rossznak tunnek,
elfogadja, mert a termeszet elfogadja mindkettot. Azokat, akik hu"nek tunnek,
elfogadja, es azokat, akik hutlennek tunnek, elfogadja, mert a termeszet
elfagadja mindkettot. Az ertelmes ember mindenfele termeszetet partatlanul
kezel. Es jot kivan mindkettonek."

Attol, mert elfogadod erveimet, nem leszek tobb, vagy nem leszek kevesebb, ha
nem fogadod el erveimet.
Ha nekem kedvem van almodozni, akkor ugy is lesz, es nem toled fugg, hogy mit 
gondolok; hacsak nem leszel az Orwell-i "Big Brother".

>Bajos, ahogy a 'nemzetellenesseg' fogalom definiciojaba is be akarod va-
>lahogy gyomoszolni a demokraciat, kozben a magyar tarsadalom nagyobb


>Neked a magyar tarsadalom tisztan Barsai Gabor-fele ertelmisegiekbol
>all. Fel sem merul benned, hogy a lakossag tulnyomo resze keptelen meg-

Milyen jo is lenne...

>tanulni egy nyelvet, egy masik kulturat, mert kepessegeik ezt nem teszik


>Vedd tudomasul, hogy ha demokraciaban gondolkodsz, akkor a magyar nem-
>zetfogalom nem a te, hanem az O igenyeik szerint fog alakulni.  Illetve

Nem veszem tudomasul, mert ez szerintem nem igaz. Az orszagnak 10 millio lakosa
van, es ezt nem lehet ket kategoriaba sorolni:

1. A "nyomaszto kisebbsegben" levo Kocsis Tamas fele agyturbinakra,
2. az egyebekre.

Ha neked nem tetszik ahogy en latom a dolgokat, es szerintem nincs igazad, tegy
a kill-file-odba. Ha Koreanak, Japannak es Nemetorszagnak sikerult a lakossagot
iskolazni, nem latom, hogy ez Magyarorszagon miert nem sikerulne.

+ - Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tra (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
   Not Authenticated > wrote:
>In Kiswahili,......I love you,...is,....K U M A N Y O K O.
>Good luck in using it in Kenya.
If you say this term to anyone in Kenya, you could get yourself seriously 
injured.  The term provided above is not "I Love You", but one of the worst 
insults you could say to a person.

The idiot who posted that term is malicious and childish.
The correct term for I Love You in Swahili is "NAKUPENDA".
+ - Re: nemzet (utoljara) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > Peter Szaszvari,
>Eddig sem szerettem volna azt a latszatot kelteni mintha K.T. -vel 

Hát ez nem egészen sikerült, galambocskám. Még pletykálkodtál is
rólam a többieknek (nahát, ez egy zürichi phd-student), pedig sze-
rintem mindenki tudta ezt rólam, hiszen vagy két éve írok már ide.

>Azert orulok, hogy sikerult minden izlesbeli normat alulmulatnom 
>vele, ekkeppen bizonyitvan onnon "nagysagat".

Hogy ki kivel milyen normát múlatott alul ?

Én lettem lefasisztázva, lerasszistázva, aki szerencsétlen izoláltként,
rossz társaságba keveredett, és akitől tartani kell, mert orvul beveri
mitsemsejtő emberek pofáját a menzán. Kaptál cserébe két nem
személyre szóló nyomatékosító jelzőt, amelyek 'úri' társaságban való
használata egyesek szerint nem javallott. Hangsúlyozom, hogy mindkét
szó jelzői alakban használtam, és egyáltalán nem volt köztük az édes-
Még a Magyar Narancs (libilap) mércéjén mérve is visszafogott voltam
(igés szerkezetek elkerülése), akkor meg nem tudom, hogy mit finy-

+ - (no subject) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

  ,-._|\  Tibor Majlath                        Limit to about 76 cols->
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+ - Re: *** DOSZ *** #46 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, "HIX DOSZ" > writes:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Issue____________: *** DOSZ 46 ***
> Date_____________: Sat Jan 20 00:47:03 EST 1996
> Publisher________: Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
> Disclaimer_______: Authors bear full responsibility for their articles.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Help_____________: >
> Supervisor_______: >
> Copyright________: http://www.clari.net/brad/copymyths.html
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> HIXWEB___________: http://hix.mit.edu/friss2/  or  http://hix.mit.edu/
> ARENA____________: http://hix.mit.edu/arena/   or  telnet hix.hungary.com
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> KIKI_____________: http://www.hungary.com/kiki/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tartalomjegyzek:
> ----------------
> Felado :  [Germany]
> Temakor: habilitacio angolszasz orszagokban ( 19 sor )
> =======================================================
> Felado :  [Germany]
> Temakor: habilitacio angolszasz orszagokban ( 19 sor )
> Idopont: Fri Jan 19 05:10:19 EST 1996 DOSZ #46
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Kedves Szentivanyi Gabor es Tisztelt Nagyerdemu,
> Tudomasom szerint magyar egyetemen ezidaig senki sem szerzett
> PhD fokozatot, vagy ha megis, biztosan igen kevesen, hiszen a kepzes
> szokasos harom eve most jar le a legelso evfolyam eseten is. Pusztan
> ez a teny is gyanussa tesz minden olyan megallapitast, miszerint az
> angolszasz orszagokban nem fogadjak el a magyar PhD-t. Alig hinnem,
> hogy nyugati egyetemek kozze tettek volna, hogy ha majd lesz magyar
> PhD fokozat, akkor ok azt lefutyulik. Az mar csak hab a tortan, hogy
> sok PhD program szerepeltet kulfoldi professzorokat , illetve
> egyuttmukodik kulfoldi tanszekekkel -- koztuk angolszasz orszagok egye-
> temeirol is -- valoszinuleg nem pusztan azert, hogy egy tobbe-kevesbe
> hasznalhatatlan fokozat eleresehez segitsek a doktoranduszokat.
> Vitan felul all, hogy a kulturalis tarca hulye, de azert nem annyira, hogy
> egy nehezen konvertalhato, szovjet mintaju fokozatrendszer helyett
> bevezessen egy masik, szinten nehezen konvertalhato, amde mar
> nem szovjet mintaju rendszert.

Kevesen bar, de szereztek mar PhD-t. En magam is, megpedig az ELTE-n,
kemiabol. Es allithatom, hogy pont ugy megbecsulik, mint barmelyik masikat.
Sot, korabban is szamos ismerosomtol hallottam, hogy Amerikaban sosem
vacakoltak holmi konvertalassal, ez csak europai 'talalmany' volt: akar
regi, akar uj tipusu fokozattal akart valaki kulfoldon dolgozni, ha alkal-
mas volt ra, tehette.

Azt hiszem, az elismeres, el nem ismeres kerdeset bizonyos europai orsza-
gokban a napi munkaerokinalat nagyon is befolyasolja. Ezen felul az is 
valoszinu, hogy ha valakinek nem akarjak megmondani nyiltan, hogy nem lat-
jak szivesen, akkor eloveszik az adu aszt, a konvertalas kerdeset.


PETER LASZLO (jelenleg Austin, Texas, USA, korabban ELTE)
+ - Re: MAKOIAK (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 21 Jan 1996, Chetnick wrote:

> VAN VALAKI ITT MAKOROL?????????????//
Az az igazsag, hogy en nem Makoi vagyok, de jar hozzank majdnem minden 
nap egy lany Makorol. Le tudom ultetni a gep ele, ha kommunikalni akarsz 
Amugy neha az az erzesem mintha en lennek az egyetlen aki Mo-rol 
valaszolgat, eme hircsoportba. Kerem cafoljon mar meg valaki ebben!