------------------- continuation -------------------------------

   When we summarize the Hu gov.'s school policy on the annexed territory,
we will arrive at the conclusion, that the Hungarization efforts at every
step suppressed all compenent Sk minority demands. Although these tendencies
cannot be asserted openly and in full measure, because the Hu gov. is bound
by reciprocity, which existed between Sk education in Hungary and Hu education
in Slovakia. In the interest of retaining Hu schools in Slovakia- with regards
to Sk nationalistic school policy - the Hu gov. had to allow certain number
of Sk schools or parallels, even if it often saw in it a slowing of  the
assimilating process. Therefore two Sk gymnazia were allowed to remain in
existance (Kosice, Surany), a commercial school (Kosice), a technical school
(Kosice), 4 upper-level schools (Nove Zamky, Kosice, Lucenec, Surany)
respectively parallel schools. In the annexed territory, Slovak was taught
in 118 schools, of which 74 were according to A type - Hu language only as
a mandatory subject; in 35 according to B type ( mixed teaching language);
in 6 schools according to C type - Sk language only as mandatory subject[99].
But as we have seen, through the exploitation of a wide chasm of previously
mentioned articles there were efforts at intimidation to dissuade pupils
from attending the haphazardly permitted Sk schools and artificially and
violently order them to trasfer to Hungarian schools. According to the
statistics for the school year 1942/43 the percentage of Sk pupils in the
annexed territory, which do not study in their mother tongue is 41.3 % [100].
Through the employment of Hu pedagogues in the Sk schools there was an effort
to practically solve the prevalence of Hu education without regard to the type
of school and to adapt the education to Hu state idea by employment of Hu
pedagogues in Sk schools.
   During the time of Bardossy's gov. the Sk-Hu relations were poisoned
by reciprocal retorts in coherence with the school policy [101].
On the contrary Kallay's gov. in the summer of 1942 expressed a willingness
that it may consider ever more resolute Sk demands in Hungary [102].
The important role in it was that Fleischmann's inspection - a clerk with
the Ministry of culture and education - proved instantly upon examination
that the Sk complaints and protests are not only universally qualified,
but that they are legally in the right in the details as well, and also that
Janos Eszterhazy himself, the leader of the Hu party in Slovakia, urged
resolute actions, because the extraordinarily stirred emotions caused by
the fate of Slovaks in Hungary complicates the situation of his party
in Slovakia [103]. Again Fleischmann's often stressed principle was brought
to the forefront, that the education in the mother tongue should be asserted
in the minority schools [104] because in the opposite instance instead of
repproachment the minorities will stand up against the idea of the Hu state.
Thus a promise was issued that in 62 cases, where detriments existed, there
would be an examination about the competence of requests to establish Sk school
or parallel and meanwhile to accelerate the solution of the lack of Sk teachers
a teacher's institute will be established and the Sk teachers transferred
to "anyaorszagh"/motherland will be transferred back-certainly "the Hungarian
environment had beneficially influenced them since (the transfer)".
  A Hungarian pedagogue from Hodejov was removed for inhuman brutal treatment
of Sk children. They could not be refuse the establishment of a dormitory
in Kosice and in Surany because in Slovakia there were Hu ones too; they
contributed to the establishment of a Sk parallel in kindergarden in Kosice,
because it seemed to be more rational, if the Hungarian state would take care
of solving of these demands, than if Slovaks in Hungary would solve these
matters by their own means with the subsidies of the Sk state [105].
Although the intention to solve the school policy was neither deep, nor frank.
Of this, the directives are in witness, whose relationship to these
arrangements openly stressed that "the planned models are of a propagandistic
character exclusively and serve to portray an image abroad" and which call
attention beforehand that "let advantages granted to the Sk minority to be
in accordance with those measures, with which the existing minority rights
have already been limited". This last position was not evidently asserted,
because the plan developed for this aim, limited to 42 adaptions,
in "8 cases favours Magyars, in 31 cases gives concessions to the indigenous
Slovaks and in 3 cases it is an indifferent adoptation" [106].
But as the justification of the plan indicates: "the stated disproportion
in reality is not so expressive as could be deduced from the difference
of these 2 numbers. It is necessary to know, that in many cases it is only
a paper acknowledgement, whose data could be exploited from the perspective
of international propaganda. In principle, it does not concern serious
practical arrangements". And since this realization of more or less lie-
arrangements should depended on beforehand demanded judgements of municipal
administrations, it is wholly understood that value of this propagandistically
used "minority-political gesture" equaled to zero in reality [107].
The municipal organs could not tolerate, that the action of Hu schools,
this "well initiated nationalist work" [108], so large an effort, with which
the teaching staffs were "reformed into Hungarians" was needless [109],
and began to more intensively persecute those pedagogues, who were receiving
supplementary payments for teaching languages[110] because they are Magyars
and had taken on teaching in the Slovak langauge[111].

  [99] OL, Kum, Pol., bal. 413, 4439-65-4/1941. Minister of education
       B. Homan's records about Sk schools in Hungary from AUG 1941.
       "In county scale" - so without Slovak territories, post Trianon
        Hungary and Ruthenia and territories obtained by 2nd arbitrary
        at AUG 1940 (eastern Hu territories in Transylvania) and
        southern territories obtained in APR 1941 - total number of schools
        were 235 for 300 084 Slovaks there. From those 137 were of A Type,
        40 of B Type and 58 of C Type.
       (Information report at 26.3. 1942 to PM Kallay
       "Summary about situation of Slovak minority in Hungary"
       ME,Nemzetisegi o., box. 240. The Collection Flachbart, 5/e.)
 [100] OL, Kum, Bekeelokeszito o., XIII.-12, "Felvideki nepiskolak". This
       survey shows that in CS in school year 1937/38 only 13.8% of Hu
       pupils did not learn Hu lang. There was effort to convince
       that Sk children did not learn mother tongue but Magyar
       for "their parents' requests".
 [101] To Bardossy's command 2 national schools from 3 were abolished
       in Kosice in autumn 1941; pupils were registred to different
       Hu schools in the town. That was retort that Sk gov. ordered
       to abolish Evangelic school in Presov and did not allow Hu school
       in Nitra. Sk PM proposed the common examination of Hu schools problems
       in Slovakia and Sk schools in Hungary. (Kum, Pol, box. 430,
       pol. 45/1942.) But Hu gov disagreed with it.
 [102] The Party of Slovak national unity's Memorandum to PM Kallay
       (OL, ME, Nemzetisegi o., box. 143, P 15027/1942.
       Cultural reporter of Hu Party in Slovakia Prof. Lajos Steltzer
       elaborated on each point of this memorandum the complete review
       of similar illegalities commited against Magyars in Slovakia.
       Hu ambassador in Bratislava sent this summary to Hu gov. that
       "this summary of illegalities can do the good service to condemn Sk
       demands". But Hu gov. without regard for the situation of Hu schools
       in Slovakia considered it necessary to undertake certain steps.
       (ME, Nemzetisegi o.,box. 120, without pol./1942. 23927).
 [103] OL, ME, Nemzetisegi o., box. 120, without pol./1942, 23638.
       Count J. Eszterhazy's letter to PM Kallay, Bratislava 25.7. 1942.
 [104] Ibid, box. 144, 22256/1942. Record: "Magyarorszagi szlovak
       iskolau"gy". Budapest 30.6. 1942.
 [105] Ibid, box. 120, without pol./1942, 24850. The meeting resolution
       at 25.8. 1942.
 [106] By old proposal "in many schools is the need to change teaching language
       - in 99 cases to benefit of Sk lang. and in 30 cases to benefit
       of Hu lang."
       (OL, ME, Nemzetisegi o., box. 182, P 25100/1943 "Szlovak relaciok".)
 [107] OL, ME, Nemzetisegi o., box. 182, P 25100/1943. Standpoint of VKM
       about Sk party's memorandum.
 [108] St. archives, Nitra, Major county documents of Tekov-Hont county
       353/1942.
 [109] At the state school in Travnica (Fis) with a complete set of transfers
       it was achieved that "8 members of the teaching staff were of not only
       the Hu opinion but they were outspoken Magyars, who well served the
       matters of the Hungarian nationalistic idea".
       Even the church organist services of the local church community are
       rendered by one of the Hungarian teachers, since they succeeded
       to remove the Slovak church organist. "It clearly shows that the
       development of the situation favors the Hungarian nationality".
       (St. archives, Nitra, Major county documents of Tekov-Hont county
       349/1942. Major county-lord's letter to PM, Levice 5.6. 1942).
 [110] There were protests from Sk side against reform of addition to salaries
       "because this process is only just indirect pressure that Sk teachers
        conceal their ethnicity". (OL, Kum, Pol, box. 430, pol. 65, 99/1942.
       Hu ambassador's report from Bratislava at 20.6. 1942.)
 [111] The behaviour of district major officials and notaries.
       St. archives, Nitra, Intimate documents of major county-lord
       of Komarno county, 210/1942.

------------------- continuation ----------------------------------
   A large uproar was caused by an attempt to liquidite the Sk parallel of
the technical college in Kosice. 22 of the 24 enrolled first year students
class did not pass the acceptance exams in 1941/42; well it was not deemed
appropriate to open a parallel school for the remaining 2 students.
An emphatic intervention of Sk goverment was necessitated, [71] so that
in next school year the 29 pupils would succesfully pass the accepting exam
and thus the 1st year class of the Sk parallel school was established [72].
   The Sk goverment stricly adhered to the reciprocity principle;
the Hungarian administrative organs sabotaged the establishment of a Slovak
commercial school in Kosice, the establishment of a Hu commercial academy
was not allowed to be proceed, though it was agreed upon in principle [73].
   The Hu goverment was very narrow-minded in the question of universities.
The minister of agriculture downgrade an agricultural academy to an mid-
level apprenticeship mid-level school for the reason that the academies
in the motherland turn out enough agronomists with a diploma [74].
Though many people were of the opinion that some sort of a university
should be established in the "Upper Land" so "that its educational influence
could be felt in the environment infected by marxism-leninism" [75].
But the technical university planned for Kosice was not established. Students
who could no longer attend the university in Bratislava were placed at
universities in motherland where after verification "loyalty to nation"
they could enroll themselves even above the established enrollment limits[76].
There were sufficient examples of Slovak families preferring to send
their children to Bratislava to secondary school or university [77].
   High school-fees at all levels of school weighed heavily upon parents
in Hungary. Those, who started to study still during the time of CS, were
unpleasently touched. In all types of schools, from elementary to university,
the school fees were substantially higher [78]. Therefore, upon the annexed
territory, a reduction in school fees was ordered by decree of 2.9. 1939
for those who had started studying in CS. But this advantage was not
applicable to those that had started to study in time of annexation by Hu.
The school fees for the students in the motherland did not change [79].
Cost for undergraduate study, merely fees for enrollment, school fees and
mandatory taxes were from 3 to 4 times higher in Hungary than in CS [80].

  For the Hungarian government, which wanted to unify the conditions also
in the educational matters of the annexed territory with the conditions
in the motherland, problems also arose from, that in the annexed territory
there were 8-year elementary schools and in the motherland only 4-year and
some places thre were 5-6 year ones. In reality however, the children living
in the countryside did not attend school regularly at all, they worked in
the fields. The unification was solved by the decree of NOV 1939, which
established the 8-year elementary school [81].
Eventhough this law was celebrated as a heroic feat, still it did not secure
a real 8-year non-disrupted attendance at school and did not guarantee
a possibility to get a uniform universal basis of knowledge, because
the subject matter in the higher classes in towns was orientated toward
industrial matters and in the villages toward agricultural matters.
With various tricks in the organization of the educational programs and
through the establishment of several months of apprenticeships children's
hands were further secured for the industry, though mainly for agriculture[82].
  The question of securing a sufficient number of reliable teachers for
the annexed territory kept the organs directing the cultural politics busy.
Those ostensibly least reliable, who were deported by military administration,
would have to be quickly substituted for by Hungarian teachers, who spoke
the Slovak language[83]. However it was not possible to secure them in
sufficient numbers, but noone was trouble by that, at least the Hungariazation
process would be faster. The "purge" continued on and in the verification
of "loyalty to the Nation" a whole lot of teachers were purged mostly due
to having been members of political parties in CS. "...Amongst the professors
and teachers, who are directly responsible for the national education, there
must be more stringent viewpoints against anti-Hungarian offences..."[84].
After the United Hungarian party and the Ministry for "Felvidek/Upper land"
ceased to exist some rehabilitations were realized [85], but it did not
change in reality that the vacated places were occupied by pedagogues from
the motherland, where already for years an excess was apparent[86].
An important clerk of the Ministry of education issued orders to professors
appointed to the annexed territory: "Be pedagogic fighting units (szabad-
csapatok)" [87] So that instructing and education in the annexed territory
would be "in the unified Hungarian national spirit", in the summer of 1939
re-educational courses were organized for teachers in 33 locations and 2
courses were organized for the inspectors in Budapest[88].

   Measures were adopted to secure school textbooks. Already on 3.11. 1938
the Council of Ministers admitted the need to change "all books established
by CS goverment which include subject matters in contradiction with the Hu
state idea and it is necessary to replace them with suitable ones, books
written in the patriotic spirit"[89]. The book issued for Slovak elementary
schools was titled Navrat/The Return. In each line of this book it was
stressed that the place of Slovaks is in the Hungarian empire [90].
>From the Slovak side they had righteous reservations against iredentistic
spirit of these textbooks; they requested, that Sk experts (pedagogues) be
empowered with the writing of these textbooks and that they be consulted
in the arrangement of the programs too[91]. But in these matters only later
some concessions were achieved[92]. The Hu Ministry of culture and education
would have been willing to realize a common super-revision of textbooks only
on the basis of reciprocity[93]. The principal problem of Sk textbooks
remained the permanent lack of them, to which was also associated, that
in many schools even this small number of textbooks [76] were not be allowed
to be utilized. Thus e.g. in the Roman-Catholic elementary school in Polianka
the district school inspector prohibited the use of reedited Sk textbooks
and directed that in future Hungarian textbooks should be used exclusively[94].
Similarly, the inspector decided also in Rudnik, where in spite of the fact
that the pupils were Slovaks, he commanded to teach in Hungarian and did not
permit the use of Sk textbooks which were purchased by the lady teacher[95].
   The instruction in the secondary schools was oriented more in the direction
of humanism in contrast to the CS technical and natural-science direction.
A methodical activity was started in the pedagoguegic associations. Pedagogic-
educational consultations preoccupied themselves with criticism of CS school
policies, (to which) a tendentious instruction of Hu literature in Hu schools
in CS was contempleted, in which e.g. Petofi's poems were forced "A magyar
nemes" (Hu nobleman), "Pato Pal ur", "Akasszatok fel a kiralyokat" (Hang kings)
,
"Respublica" or that the omission of Toldi's passage with the Czech warior
is explicitly anti-Hungarian, de-nationalizing tendency. Different evaluations,
not completely in agreement with this evaluation, occured very rarely, because
only such a teacher from could have expressed them, who had taught Hu school
in CS before 1938[96]. The stressing of past anti-Hu denationalizing tendencies
should have in reality paved they way for de-nationalization tendecies against
Slovaks: "...Let's give it our complete soul, that the Magyarization would be
succeessfull, but in such a way, that the child would not know about it...
Lets be industrious to show the famous events of our history...
the time of strifes will be omitted entirely ...
Let the inhabitants of the border town Kosice, although they are less erudite,
just that they would be good Magyars! ... even though it were to the detriment
of the subject matter".
And thus e.g. in St. Urshula's gymnazium in Kosice there were often written
compositions of Hungarian language lessons on the theme of this kind:
"What would Koloman/Kalman Mikes have written to his aunt about the Hu army's
arrival in Kosice?"[97]. The main educational program of the schools with
the Slovak teaching language was the stressing of "the successes of the 1000
year homeland and the spirited proclamation of the St. Stephen's idea", that
in this spirit they would be educated "and not only them (pupils), but through
them also their parents" [98].
  [71] OL, Kum, Pol, box. 430, pol. 65, 24/1942. Hu envoy's report
       from Bratislava, 14.2. 1942.
  [72] OL, ME, Nemzetsegi o., box. 143, P 16898/1942.
  [73] Ibid, box. 89, B 19188/1941.
  [74] KN, 1939/III, 209, 17.11. 1939. Viteza Mihaly Teleki's speech
       ( min. of agriculture)
  [75] Fu"lei-Sza'nto Endre - Hogyan lehet bekapcsolni a visszate'rt
       Felvideket telso"oktata'sunk ko"re'be. Budapest 1949, 6.
  [76] P. Teleki's ( min. of education) decree from 26.11. 1938,
       VKM c. 29700/1938, IV.
  [77] OL, ME, Nemzetsegi o., box. 152, E24830/1943.
       G. Fleischmann's report , Budapest 8.5. 1943.
  [78] KN, 1939/III, 289, 22.11.1939. Jozef Kiraly's (deputy) speech.
  [79] OL, ME, Nemzetsegi o., box. 60, L 18980/1939.
  [80] KN, 1939/VIII, 80, 10.10. 1940. T. Matolcsy's speech.
  [81] KN, 1939/III, 281, 22.11. 1939. Gusztav Szabo is explaining necessity
       passing of this law : "In Felvidek, resp. on returned territory
       it exists and thus we can not lag even".
  [82] Ibid, 325-326. Minister of education Balint Homan's speech, 22.11. 1939.
  [83] OL, ME, Nemzetsegi o., box. 85, P 21122/1940. "There is important
       state interest that on schools with Sk teaching lang. pedagogues
       with Hu nationality taught who know Sk lang. indeed".
  [84] OL, Teleki Pal iratai.  E. Farago's letter to Teleki from 4.1. 1941;
       Teleki's answer from 13.1. 1941.
  [85] OL, Records of Minister's Council from 12.7. 1940.
  [86] KN, 1939/III, 22.11. 1939, 323-324. Min. of education B. Homan's
       speech:
       "There are 5920 new teacher's and professor's positions in Felvidek
        and Rhutenia , in territory of Trianon's Hungary 1100 ones.
        We will able to satisfy many applicants placing these positions
        what is going to improvement of economical and social situation
        of teachers and professors ... owing to extending territory with
        "Upper land" we have many new emplyees today.
  [87] St. archives, Kosice, Debreceni tankeru"leti kir. fo"igazgato'sa'g
       iratai, box. 1. 47-4/1938-39 Fo" (General administration of
       school inspectorators for liberated territory resided in Debrecen
       in 1938-39, then it was removed to Kosice where it was named
       "Kassai tankeru"leti kir. fo"igazdato'sa'g".)
  [88] OL, Records of Minister's Concil from 25.7. 1939.
  [89] Ibid, from 3.11. 1938.
  [90] St. archives, Kosice, Kassai tankeruleti kir. foigazdagatosag, box. 4,
       485/1939.
  [91] OL, ME, Nemzetsegi o., box. 143, P 15027/1942.
       Emanuel Bohm's memmorandum to PM Kallay, Budapest 13.6. 1942.
  [92] Ibid, box. 120, without pol./1942, 24850. Resolution from meeting
       at 25.8. 1942.
  [93] OL, Kum, Pol, box. 440, pol. 65, 145/1944. Hu envoy's in Bratislava
       report at 17.8. 1944.
  [94] OL, ME, Nemzetsegi o., bal. 144, P 18454/1942. The Kosice's bishop
       Madarasz's letter to school inspector Jozsef Iva'nyi, Kosice
       15.11. 1940.
  [95] see comment 65.
  [96] St. archives, Kosice, Kassai tankeruleti foigazgatosag iratai, box. 15,
       G 46. Records of pedagogic consultation in Kosice Hunfalvy
       Janos's gymnazium at 25.4. 1939.
  [97] St. archives, Kosice, Debreceni tank. kir. foig. iratai, box. 1,
       47-4/1938-39. St. Urshula's girlish gymnazium  - record of methodical
       consultation from 22.3. 1939 "The special mission of education
       of Hu literature in Felvideku/Upper land".
  [98] Ibid, kox. 16, G 1. Record of teacher's staff session
       in IIIrd Kosice Hu royal boy's and girl's school with Sk teaching
       lang., 14.9. 1940.

>I have to "voice" my protest to a remark made by Gabor Fencsik on
>Bekesi's options throughout historical times:  Between being
>"neutralized" and "deported to an inhospitable climate", which I
>assume he meant as a euphemism for Siberia, Bekesi could have been a
>"lowly librarian"??????  Ethnic or professional stereotypes in this
>discussion group?  How lowly.
>Elizabeth

>

Elizabeth,
   I doubt very much that Gabor wanted to imply what you seem
to understand. Those three options were indeed ways to punish
people under Stalinist rule.  The luckiest ones were assigned
to a "lowly (unimportant) librarian" position. This is simply
stating facts, not stereotyping.
   I work for a library,  but I did  not jump to  any of your
conclusion.  Perhaps because I have experienced the Stalinist
rule Gabor is talking about?
   Let's ask questions first and shoot later, much later!

                                                        Amos

I have to "voice" my protest to a remark made by Gabor Fencsik on
Bekesi's options throughout historical times:  Between being
"neutralized" and "deported to an inhospitable climate", which I
assume he meant as a euphemism for Siberia, Bekesi could have been a
"lowly librarian"??????  Ethnic or professional stereotypes in this
discussion group?  How lowly.
Elizabeth

>Felado : Bozoki Barnabas
>E-mail : 
>Temakor: The World Federation of Hungarians (MVSZ) ( 35 sor )
>Idopont: Mon Mar 13 09:28:37 EST 1995 HUNGARY #250
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>On March 9, 1995 Hugh Agnew wrote:
>
>>And, just BTW, may I mildly second the suggestion that, if anyone begins
>>reading this list traffic and doesn't "find what [they] want," that they
>>post something to start something else rolling? [...]
>>So, how about a general CALL FOR NEW TOPICS?
>
>This is my suggestion. I would like start a discussion about the World
>Federation of Hungarians (MVSZ). This organization was quite active during
>the Kadar years. They published a nice bi-weekly (later monthly) magazine,
>organized summer camps for kids, supported the teaching Hungarian in the
>diaspora, arranged the tour of "cultural ambassadors" to the West, etc.
>They were accused of being a tool of communist propaganda machine.
>
>In 1992 the MVSZ was reorganized. During the III. Congress of Hungarians
>they elected Sa1ndor Csoo1ri to be the new president, and promised a new
>active role for the organization in keeping the Hungarian diaspora
>informed. They started a bi-weekly newspaper, the Vila1gszo2vetseg. This
>paper since died, I never heard anything about the MVSZ lately. I assumed
>that the organization just quietly faded away with many other relics of the
>Kadar regime. Therefore, I was surprised to read in the Dec. 19, 1995 issue
>of the Hungarian daily newspaper Magyar Nemzet, that Be1la Pomoga1ts, one of
>the vice-presidents of MVSZ, is still looking for "new ways to
>communicate" with the Hungarian communities of the West.
>
>I wonder why they did not think of the Internet. In the very same issue of
>the Magyar Nemzet where Mr. Pomoga1ts is looking for the ways of
>communication, a news item proudly announces that since 1993 Hungary is on
>the Internet. So I would suggest to Mr. Pomoga1ts and the other Officials of
>the MVSz that, please put the MVSZ on the Hungarian Homepage. Let the
>diaspora know what your plans are, let us comment on your plans. Would
>anybody second this suggestion?

I can only say that the world and especialy the Magyar people are a lot
better off
without the likes of Mr Kadar (the PIG) and any of his puppet institutions.
Hungary
needs to avoid the likes of the phoney Soviet Russian Puppet Kadar and his
Phoney
oraganizations.   Kadar is dead and we have to rejoice. We can only regret
he did
not die sooner in a more horrible fasion.......!!!! I have to question why
you would
yearn for that terrible past.  Where you and your family connected to that
PIG....???



> =======================================================
###################################
         Pal Gyoni  (  )
                 \/\/arm Greetz Everyone.......
***********************************
           Lost somewhere on the InterNet.......
         If you should find me, tell me....hehe....
###################################

I agree!

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, temp wrote:

> ghj,gh,ghj,vhjhj
> tyuiouii
> tyuouioyuio
>

George Lazar wrote just about the same time when things changed:

>It seems that the economy is out of control..  Since Horn is unable to
>implemen
>t
>drastic financial measures, I expect a Mexico type meltdown by the summer.
>
>Any comments ?


According to news from Budapest the cabinet held a meeting on Sunday and
decided to devaluate the Hungarian forint by 9 percent immediately, followed
by 1.9 percent per month until June and 1.3 percent for the next six months.
That approximately means a devaluation of 26-28 percent by the end of the
year. They also announced that the family assistance program--at the moment
all families get assistance who have children--will be restricted only to the
needy. Two ministers turned in their resignations as a result of the announcem
ents. They are also introducing tuition for higher education: 2,000 Ft/month.
So, at last they decided to act. But of course Hugh's question concerning
Bekesi is quite correct. What I am pleased about that it seems that the
"experts" managed to convince Horn that there is no other way and he better
stop his usual demagoguery and act like a statesman should.

Eva Balogh

On Mon, 20 Feb 1995, Eva Durant wrote:

> >
> >         I was told by my father that when Attila was buried, the Tisza was
> > deliberately diverted and he was buried in the river bed. And then, so that
no
> > one would know, his soldiers executed each other.
> >
> > Karcsi
>
> That's what we learned in school - as part of old legends, such
> as the "csodaszarvas". Not necessarily history...
> (szarvas translated in an Almadi restaurant as horny beast '93)
> Both "oz" and "szarvas" are deer in English, aren't they?
>
>
> 

Several "historian/ambassador" from both Eastern and Western Roman
Empire were present in Attila's camp at his death and remained during and
after the burial. (Of course not present or aware of the exact
location).  According to one of the ambassador from the Western Roman
Empire there were several "layer" of killing involved with the burial.
First, Attila's inner circle (aides,  servants, etc. where
killed by the 40 soldiers present. (Assumption for the number, not the
order, came from the fact that 40 soldiers less returned than left).
The slaves who diverted the Tisza (including the engineers who were
also slaves) were the next who were executed after burying Attila's coffin
and the bodies of the inner circle and opening the Tisza's flow over the
burial site. The 40 solders walk over a pre-arranged place where they
were killed by arrows.

Of course, as with any report from the Greek-Roman era, one has to be
aware of the love of mystic by the Greeks and Romans which did permeate in
to their objectivity.

                                                        Attila

As the day goes by I keep thinking about the recent events in Hungary and I
can see all sorts of new possible conflicts as a result of the announcement
of economic reforms.

(1) It was only a week ago that the "presidium" of the MSZP voted not to
introduce tuition this year. According to the announcement the cabinet
decided to do otherwise.

(2) Bokros even before this weekend had the reputation of being harder than
Bekesi when it comes to austerity. Two weeks ago he began talking about
introducing property tax; however, "experts" think that it is not possible to
introduce such a tax because it would take at least two years to lay the
groundwork for it. May be they should ask the Americans how to handle
property tax!;)))))

(3) The SZDSZ wasn't too keen on the new privatization minister, a man called
Tamas Suchman. According to his critics, Suchman doesn't have the background
for the job. Among other things, he doesn't speak foreign languages. He has a
law degree, but lately he has been the head of a small-town branch of a bank.
Yet, Horn insisted on his person, most likely because Suchman is close to him
ideologically and personally. According to Bekesi, Horn insisted on elevating
the head of privatization to ministerial level, because from the MSZP's point
of view, it is not immaterial who will be the beneficiaries of privatization.
A new middle class will emerge sooner or later and the MSZP insists that this
new middle class should come from the ranks of the left.

(4) I wonder what Sandor Nagy and the trade unions will do; or rather, in
general, what will the left wing of the MSZP do after these announcements.

Eva Balogh

As of February 1 I am receiving a weekly called *Tallozo,* which is a
compendium of already published articles in Hungarian papers and interviews
on TV and Radio. As a result I can read articles from right-wing as well as
left-wing papers. There are quite a few articles from provincial papers as
well.

In the last issue of *Tallozo* (March 9) I found two articles which caught my
attention. One appeared in *Fuggetlen Delvidek* (Baja, March 1) and the other
in *Vasarnap* (Budapest, March 5). Both deal with economics and,
unfortunately, neither journalists know the first thing about economics.
However, that fact doesn't seem to prevent them from making great pronouncemen
ts!

The first article (*Fuggetlen Delvidek*) is by Jozsef Hazafi. (One feels like
making a joke out of Mr. Hazafi's name (hazafi means patriot in Hungarian)
but I will refrain! The whole article is totally nonsensical. The price of
potato is somehow connected with "the building of capitalism" because if
there were full-fledged capitalism in Hungary the price of potato wouldn't be
so high. In real, western capitalism the state interferes, and even the
merchants are careful not to upset "the balance." Whatever that means. This
building of capitalism has eaten up already five finance ministers and yet we
are nowhere. Or rather, we are worse off than before. Some of his statements,
I am sure, are not even accurate. For example, he claims that a very large
percentage of Western incomes is spent on food stuff, and yet Hungary is
trying to emulate the West. All in all, here is a man who can't even think
straight but that doesn't seem to prevent him from writing nonsense. And of
course the people who read the article are simply misled.

The second article, which appared in *Vasarnap* is a bit more coherent but
again the problem is that Mr. Vilmos Po'r openly admits that he knows nothing
about economics in spite of the fact that the article is about taxation,
prices, and foreign trade. Just to give one example, he claims that the
introduction of property tax would constitute "double taxation," and thus it
would be somehow illegal! Also, according to him the prices of potato,
cabbage, and other vegetables depend entirely on the "whim" of the green
grocers! He doesn't seem to understand how it is possible that that cabbage
which had been produced last year can vary in price from one month to the
next.

Not everybody has to know elementary economics but one would like to see
journalists writing on economic topics to have some idea what they are
talking about. There is a certain responsibility of journalists: they must
not mislead the public. Unfortunately, articles like these are not helping to
explain the Hungarian public what is ailing the economy.

Eva Balogh

Barna Bozoki wrote:

> This is my suggestion. I would like start a discussion about the World
> Federation of Hungarians (MVSZ). This organization was quite active during
> the Kadar years. They published a nice bi-weekly (later monthly) magazine,
> organized summer camps for kids, supported the teaching Hungarian in the
> diaspora, arranged the tour of "cultural ambassadors" to the West, etc.
> They were accused of being a tool of communist propaganda machine.

Which they were, but they had to use the carrot vis-a-vis overseas
Hungarians who escaped socialist jurisdiction.  In the process, overseas
Hungarians benefited. Just an another one of the cases where the past
regime did some good things, but of course it was paid for by taxpayers
in Hungary.

> In 1992 the MVSZ was reorganized. During the III. Congress of Hungarians
> they elected Sa1ndor Csoo1ri to be the new president, and promised a new
> active role for the organization in keeping the Hungarian diaspora
> informed. They started a bi-weekly newspaper, the Vila1gszo2vetseg. This
> paper since died, I never heard anything about the MVSZ lately.

I think it is only that the previously (under both the Kadar and Antall
administrations) generous government subsidies have been terminated.

> I assumed
> that the organization just quietly faded away with many other relics of the
> Kadar regime. Therefore, I was surprised to read in the Dec. 19, 1995 issue
> of the Hungarian daily newspaper Magyar Nemzet, that Be1la Pomoga1ts, one of
> the vice-presidents of MVSZ, is still looking for "new ways to
> communicate" with the Hungarian communities of the West.
>
> I wonder why they did not think of the Internet. In the very same issue of
> the Magyar Nemzet where Mr. Pomoga1ts is looking for the ways of
> communication, a news item proudly announces that since 1993 Hungary is on
> the Internet.

During its history, the MVSz has been promoted by the supporters of the
orthodoxy of the day: first communist, then populist-nationalist.  THese
people are not best known for trying to apply today's answers to today's
problems, so it is not out of character that they have not stumbled onto the
information superhighway yet (having just made the technological leap from
carrier pigeon ;-).


As far as Pal Gyoni's 'contribution' to this thread is concerned: innuendo
and a derogatory treatment of others has not been traditional in this
discussion club so far.  Please learn some manners and the basics of
conducting a civilized debate or concentrate your efforts on the bearpit
of FORUM.


George Antony

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Hugh Agnew wrote:

>  I don't have any training in formal economics, but already as a
>  historian, it seems to me that certain of these assertions might
>  be discussable, and I wondered what anyone else thought?

        Indeed, this struck me as particularly ignorant of US/West
European relations during the Cold War:

>  Basically he says that in the interests of the West, eastern and cen-
>  tral Europe was handed over to Stalin and the USSR so that a
>  threat to western Europe would exist, that would justify long-
>  term US involvement in Europe after the wars end.  The need for
>  continued political and military presence gave the US "nearly
>  unlimited influence."

        I don't know if the the article's explanation for US dealings with
Stalin after WWII is correct (I doubt that too), but this "unlimited
influence" bit is absolutely false.  US influence over the Western
European states started to decline drastically during the 1960s, and as
the Southern Slav conflict illustrates, has shrunk to nil.  The loss of
influence was caused by several factors, with the most important being the
realization that the US would not risk nuclear war in case of a
conventional Soviet invasion of Western Europe, the rise of the Western
European economy (e.g., the Germany economic miracle and the developement
of the EEC), and sometimes simple nationalism (France is a good example).

>  He says, "the United states gained as a result of the Soviet great-power
>  threat many times more than the debt, which they should now forgive those
>  countries that it sacrificed at the altar of its own interests at Yalta."

        Here, the article implies something which is contrary to tangible
facts.  As far as I know, the US holds a relatively small share of Central
European debt, with most of it being in the hands of Japan and West
Europe.  I'll try to track down the figures....

        Something else to mention here is that most of the debt is held
by commercial banks, not by governments.  Thus, the debtee nations can't
very well just decide one day to forgive the 100+ billion dollar
cumulative debt.

        Norb

Norbert Ja'nos Udvardy Walter      | "Ask, and it will be given you;
Fort Worth, Texas, USA             |  search, and you will find; / knock, and
Internet:          |  the door will be opened for you."
FidoNet:   1:130/911.6212          |               Matthew 7:7

Charlie Pinter's criticism is quite valid. I somewhat overemphasized the sins
of the MSZP in comparison to the activities of the SZDSZ. The reason is most
likely the preeminence of matters economic in current Hungarian politics,
where the SZDSZ has fewer sins than the MSZP. But the activities of Gabor
Fodor as minister of education and culture also deserve criticism. One may
add that the constant squabbling between coalition partners doesn't help
matters either. But let me turn now to something Greg was talking about: the
SZDSZ has no choice but to stay in the government, at least for the time
being! And it all goes back to their decision to join it in the first place.

Greg may recall that I was one of those people on this list last May who was
very much against SZDSZ joining the socialists in a coalition government. I
was very much hoping that they wouldn't and declared them to be fools if they
do. Thanks to the attitude of the right-wing parties toward the SZDSZ as a
result of their decision to join, the SZDSZ right now is in a terrible bind.
They are stranded with an unpopular austerity program and both the left and
the right at their throats. I just read something interesting on the Forum
this morning. A contributor from Budapest called attention to the fact that
Ivan Peto (president of SZDSZ) was participating in a discussion at MDF
headquarters in Lakitelep. And that the new finance minister was also a guest
there. It is possible that Peto is trying to mend fences in order to be able
to extricate the party from the coalition. But at the moment the SZDSZ has no
friends.

Now, if they had decided against joining the government last May, the
situation would be very different. They would not be squeezed between the
opposition and their coalition partners. By adding substantially to the
opposition they could have effectively criticized the socialists for ruining
the economy (which is happening anyway with them in government). Moreover, it
is clear that the MSZP is not a homogenous party and with a more responsible
opposition the party's 54 percent of seats may not have lasted for too long.

I assume that Ivan Peto is not a stupid man and he sees what an impossible
situation his party got itself. By the way, I do agree with Charlie that this
coalition will not last but if the SZDSZ wants to remain a viable political
party they first must create a political climate more conducive for their new
role in the opposition.

By the way, I was highly amused that Charlie thinks that my sympathies lie
with the liberals. He should ask some people on the left of me what they
think of me! I am a huge disappointment to the so-called liberals!

Eva Balogh

P.S. I sent this piece three times to the list but for some strange reason it
didn't get there.

The New York Hungarian House presents >in person< Sa'ndor Sa'ra, one of
 Hungary's leading film directors.

At 5 PM we will show "Tuske a korom alatt" -- in Hungarian only.

At 7:30 we will show "The Watchers" (Vigyazo'k) -- in Hungarian, with English
 subtitles.

Floowing the showings, Mr. Sa'ra will discuss his workks with the audience.




Time:   Saturday, March 18

Place:  Hungarian House

        213 East 82nd Street



        New York, N.Y.  10028

(between 2nd and 3rd Avenues)

        212 249-9360


Contribution to the Hungarian House:    $10, students/seniors: $7


Hope to see you all...

Charlie Vamossy

On Fri, 10 Mar 1995  wrote:

> >        Budapest, March 1 (MTI) - Prime Minister Gyula Horn disagrees with
> >Western views that the new way of thinking in the Hungarian armed forces is
> >not
> >sufficiently in evidence
>
>
> >From this I gather that there was some criticim of Hungary's military and it
s
> commitment to the necessary reorganization before Hungary can join NATO. Does
> anyone know anything about this?

Well, for one, after the U.S. turned down the HU. request for F-111's (as
fighter bombers could not be easily justified as defensive weapon - if
need more info let me know) the HU. Army agreed to purchase MIG fighters
and ground support equipments from Russia, in exchange to nullify that
country's debt.

Second, Hungary still does not allow NATO Recon planes to fly through
Hungary to monitory Serbian activities in Bosnia and Croatia.

There are ample other reasons, of course.

                                                        Attila

Charlie Pinter's criticism is quite valid. I somewhat overemphasized the sins
of the MSZP in comparison to the activities of the SZDSZ. The reason is most
likely the preeminence of matters economic in current Hungarian politics,
where the SZDSZ has fewer sins than the MSZP. But the activities of Gabor
Fodor as minister of education and culture also deserve criticism. One may
add that the constant squabbling between coalition partners doesn't help
matters either. But let me turn now to something Greg was talking about: the
SZDSZ has no choice but to stay in the government, at least for the time
being! And it all goes back to their decision to join it in the first place.

Greg may recall that I was one of those people on this list last May who was
very much against SZDSZ joining the socialists in a coalition government. I
was very much hoping that they wouldn't and declared them to be fools if they
do. Thanks to the attitude of the right-wing parties toward the SZDSZ as a
result of their decision to join, the SZDSZ right now is in a terrible bind.
They are stranded with an unpopular austerity program and both the left and
the right at their throats. I just read something interesting on the Forum
this morning. A contributor from Budapest called attention to the fact that
Ivan Peto (president of SZDSZ) was participating in a discussion at MDF
headquarters in Lakitelep. And that the new finance minister was also a guest
there. It is possible that Peto is trying to mend fences in order to be able
to extricate the party from the coalition. But at the moment the SZDSZ has no
friends.

Now, if they had decided against joining the government last May, the
situation would be very different. They would not be squeezed between the
opposition and their coalition partners. By adding substantially to the
opposition they could have effectively criticized the socialists for ruining
the economy (which is happening anyway with them in government). Moreover, it
is clear that the MSZP is not a homogenous party and with a more responsible
opposition the party's 54 percent of seats may not have lasted for too long.

I assume that Ivan Peto is not a stupid man and he sees what an impossible
situation his party got itself. By the way, I do agree with Charlie that this
coalition will not last but if the SZDSZ wants to remain a viable political
party they first must create a political climate more conducive for their new
role in the opposition.

By the way, I was highly amused that Charlie thinks that my sympathies lie
with the liberals. He should ask some people on the left of me what they
think of me! I am a huge disappointment to the so-called liberals!

Eva Balogh

P.S. I sent this piece two days ago to the list but it got lost somewhere in
the Internet.

This comes from Eva's critique of some hapless reporter, allegedly
named Jozsef Hazafi, writing for the provincial rag in Baja:

> All in all, here is a man who can't even think straight but that
> doesn't seem to prevent him from writing nonsense.

It doesn't?  And why should it?  Most often it does not.  Writing
nonsense is second nature to those among us who can't even think
straight.  And vice versa.

Aside from that, I couldn't disagree with you less.

-----
Gabor Fencsik

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Hugh Agnew wrote:

> And now (as Monty Python used to say) for something completely
> different:
>
> The Budapest Sun (english-language weekly) had the temerity to
> publish a list of Hungary's best wines.  Maybe this will put a
> different taste in the mouths of our readers?  (Or at least make
> them thirsty...)  The list is in rank order.
>
> White Wines:
>
> Mo2cse1nyi Zo2ldveletelini 1993 (Ba1tapa1ti Gazdasa2g)
>
> Balatonszo2lo2si Olaszrizling 1993 (Figula Mihaly)
>
> Balatonlellei Pinot Gris 1993 (St. Donatus)
>
> Balatonmelle1ki Pinot Gris 1993 (Ka1l-Vin)
>
> Balatonbogla1ri Chardonnay 1993 (Eifert & Le1gli)
>
> Zemple1ni Chardonnay 1993 (Chateau Megyer)
>
> Tokaji Furmint 1993 (Diszno1ko2)
>
> O2reghegyi Sauvignon Blanc 1993 (Tibor Ba1thori)
>
> Somlo1i Ha1rslevelu2 1992 (Imre Gyo2rgykova1cs)
>
> Irsay Olive1r (Balatonbogla1ri Borgazdasa1g-BB)
>
> Red Wines:
>
> Villa1nyi Ke1kporto1 1994 (Jo1zsef Bock)
>
> Szeksza1rdi Bikave1r 1993 (Vesztergombi)
>
> Villa1nyi Ke1kfrankos 1992 (Attila Gere)
>
> Gundel Egri Merlot 1991 (Lang-Lauder)
>
> Cabernet Sauvignon 1991 (BB)
>
> Cuvee Phoenix 1992 (Gere a Weniger)
>
> Cuvee Bock 1991 (Jo1zsef Bock)
>
> Villa1nyi Sauvignon 1987 (Szo2lo2-bor)
>
> Tokay Wines:
>
> Tokaji Szamorodni e1des 1983 (Diszno1ko2)
>
> Tokaji Aszu1 5 puttonyos 1988 (Oremus)
>
> Thirstily,
>
> Hugh Agnew
> 
>
Hi Hugh,

        After you posted this list, I had to do a comparison of what was
in my fridge.  Here are the results;

Egri Dikaver 1989
Szekszardi Voros 1992
Dunavar Merlot (Date: Who knows - maybe I shouldn't have tried the 1st two)


Tokay:

Tokaji Aszu  1986

        Nothing quite lines up but then again, 'Who cares!'

Cheers,

Stan