Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: What Happened to Nagy? (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Urgent: Iliescu meeting (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Our Blind Spot For Vojvodina (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
4 Op-Ed (mind)  58 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Looking for partner to rent an apt. in Bp (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: your mail (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
7 gazdasag,politika-Heti osszefoglalo Kanadabol (mind)  64 sor     (cikkei)
8 Nepszabadsag (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
9 HUNGARY some sentences to Boris Bjelica - Yugo war (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
10 Hungarian Opera, and Budapest Music life (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
11 Bosnia; Iliescu (mind)  45 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Hungarian economy (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Our Blind Spot For Vojvodina (mind)  288 sor     (cikkei)
14 Hungarian Utility Privatizations (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
15 xx (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
16 HUNGARY - ADOPTION?? (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
17 Lukas, Imre (painter) (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
18 Magyarok A Vilagon (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
19 Ertektozsde augusztusban (mind)  184 sor     (cikkei)
20 Looking for a Ph.D course abroad (mind)  54 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: What Happened to Nagy? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Imre Nagy was executed on the early morning of June 16,1958 in the
Budapest Gyujto prison by hanging. His remains were finally laid to rest
in the Rakoskereszturi Cemetery, at parcel No:301. If you need more info,
about this topic, just ask for it.

Judith Kopacsi Gelberger
+ - Re: Urgent: Iliescu meeting (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Paul,
   Thank you for the letter sent to President Clinton informing him of the
plight of the Hungarians in Romania.  I was a Fulbright scholar in
Budapest two years ago and I heard many, many horror stories about the
mistreatment and general hassles that the Hungarian population endures on
a daily basis in Romania.  There needs to be much more understanding and
hopefully initiatives by countries such as the U.S. to prevent escalation
of this situation.
>From Bill FitzGibbons 
+ - Re: Our Blind Spot For Vojvodina (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


I like to suggest hindu philosophical approach in the question
of Vojvodina. First Hungarians should apply full introversion
and introspection analysing their past hystory. Second this
reevaluation process can lead to a higher level of cocsciossnes.
Third  this higher level of consciossnes gives base any nations
to influance events outside of it's border.

>From practical purpose my method is not yet implemented in everyday
politics. For the time beeing we have nothing else but watch as Hungarian

soldiers in the Croatian army fight Hungarian soldiers in the Serbian
for their  "fatherland".
+ - Op-Ed (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Be1la Lipta1k's otherwise excellent piece on Vojvodina is marred by two
things, one minor and one major. Since it is high time the issue gets
discussed in the US media, and since I find the piece on the whole
well-written I would urge Be1la to fix these problems before he submits it.

First, the minor problem: I find the characterization
>        Part of the problem is due to the difference in the personalities
> between the Krajina Serbs and the Vojvodina Hungarians. The Krajina Serbs
> have a warrior mentality, they carry guns, for centuries they have been in
> uninterrupted conflict with the Croats, their view of life is based on
> constant struggle and hate for one's neighbors, their personality corresponds
> to the rugged terrain they have inherited. The placidity of Vojvodina
> Hungarians corresponds to the openness of their fertile plains. Yet, their
> friendly and mild personality does not mean, that their patience is
> unlimited. They are a strong and determined people. Monica Seles is a
> Vojvodina Hungarian.
faintly ridiculous. Perhaps a little distance from the naive character of
the land = character of the people theory would make this more palatable.
Why not hedge "corresponds" a bit and write "in a poetic sense corresponds"
or something like that.

As for the major point, I find it unwise for Be1la Lipta1k to assume such a
warlike posture in the name of Hungary. I find it unlikely in the extreme
that the Horn government lift a finger for Vojvodina Hungarians. Maybe I'm
mistaken and they will do something. But to write that
>        Politicians who push Hungarians to the limit, should remember 1915,
> the only time when Serbia was occupied in this century, or 1956, when the Red
> Army learned, what happens, when Hungarians lose their temper. Hungary has
> already accepted some 50,000 Hungarian and some 100,000 non-Hungarian
> refugees from the disintegrating Yugoslavia. This economic burden, combined
> with the loss of Hungary's southern markets, is testing her frail economy to
> the limit. She has already protested the ethnic cleansing of Vojvodina and
> will have no choice, but to defend her interests more forcefully if this
> process continues.
is outrageous. The only effect this can have is for some official
representative of Hungary to write a rebuttal op-ed saying that no, Hungary
will not risk armed intervention! This would, paradoxically, narrow the
range of future options for Hungary in exactly the opposite direction that
Be1la Lipta1k wants. As a matter of fact, the Albanians (both in Kosovo and
in Albania) are far more likely to go to war, and perhaps this is what
should be stressed instead of warning the world what happens when Hungarians
lose their temper. No roaring mice, please.

As for a Danubian Confederation, I don't quite see that as the panacea magna
that Be1la Lipta1k takes it to be, but that's another matter, and pushing
for this idea doesn't detract from the letter. The saber-rattling does.

Andra1s Kornai

PS. Yet another minor point: perhaps the letter should not be imbued with
the vocabulary of Hungarian nationalism. Why mention 1100 years rather than
1000 (at least a round number) if not for the fact that this number is
relevant for Hungarian statehood? Why talk of "dismemberment" which,
although perfectly true, will nevertheless serve to pigeonhole the writer as
a revanche-ist whose hidden agenda is to restore pre WW-I Hungary? This is
not necessarily what the Danubian Confederation is about, and I'm not saying
Be1la Lipta1k actually has a revanche-ist agenda. But he sure makes it easy
for his opponents to cast him in that role.
+ - Re: Looking for partner to rent an apt. in Bp (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Anatoly,
I could be interested in sharing an apartment in Budapest on a rather
unfrequent number of visits from my part.
Please reply on either Internet or Compuserve or on my
fax-number: 00/32/3/281.43.05.
Best regards.
Dirk Apers.
+ - Re: your mail (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Paul, I stated what I did (RE: The Budapest Sun) because it is targeted at
>Americans only,
>Darren Purcell\

Could Darren and Paul shift their correspondence to a direct line, please.

 I am always obliged to open mail entitled "re:your mail", as I assume it
may be re my mail.



World Resource Foundation      Tel           +44 1732 368 333
Bridge House                                   Fax          +44 1732 368 337
High Street, Tonbridge
Kent TN9 1DP England

+ - gazdasag,politika-Heti osszefoglalo Kanadabol (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Multheten sajnos  nek tudtam irni szemelyes problemak miatt. De
megprobalom potolni.

        E heten persze minden ujsag,radio,televizio az O.J. Simpson
dontesrol foglalkozott.  Habar sok bizonyitek arra mutatott hogy Simpson
bunos, a zsuri elhatarozta 4 ora alatt hogy  nem. A zsuritagok azt mondjak,
hogy nem volt minden tiszta es nagyon sok olyan dolog volt ami csinalt a
gondolkozasukban "reasonable doubts" vagy magyarul "indokolt ketseget". A
torveny az ilyen esetben ad egy okot a vadlott felmentesere.

        Persze ez a dontes a fehereket es a feketeket kulon taborba tette.
A feketek ugy nezik a dontest mint a gyozelmet a feher vilag ellen. A
feherek meg azt mondjak hogy Simpson "got away with murder"- meguszta
minden buntetes nelkul a felesegenek es a Goldman fiunak a gyilkossagat.
Oszinten, en sem tudom hogy mi az igazsag. Talan csak Simpson tudja.

        Egy  erdekes oldala a fekete-feher problemanak az hogy valoszinuleg
Colin Powell, a Gulfi haborunak a hose,  jelolt lesz  a 96-osi Presidential
valasztason. O most nagyon nepszeru  a feherek es a feketek kozott is.

        Itt Ontarioban a Harrisnak a  "jozan esz forradalma" Juniusban
kidobta a szocialista Bob Raenek a kormanyat. Rae megduplazta 5 ev alatt a
kormanynak az adossagat es probalt felepiteni egy szocialista allamot itt.
De a nepnek  a tobbsege felebredt es rajott hogy nincsen "ingyen ebed".
Minden penzbe kerul es a vegen az adofizeto fizet. Most azok akik kaptak az
allamtol a joleti segitseget, tuntettek, mert a Harris  levagta az osszeget
amit kaptak. Sajnos, nagyon sokan itt azt hiszik hogy nekik joguk van a
masik zsebebol elni.

        Szerdan a Kanadai Dollar elerte a 75 centet amarikai dollarban,
amikor bezart 75.27 amerikai centben. A legnagyobb oka ennek az hogy az
minden  arra mutat hogy Oktober 30 an a  "nem" erok fognak nyerni es Kanada
nem fog felbomlani.

        Ezen a heten a magyar szarmazasu Paul Reichman ismet  vezeti a
Canary Wharfot Londonban. Ha meg emlekeztek, 1992 ben a cegje tonkrement es
elvesztette akkor ezt a  befektetest is. De most osszealt sok masik
amerikai penzes emberrel es megvette a bankoktol.

        The Dow Jones indexnek a zarasa 4769 volt. Az utolso par hetben a
4700 es 4800 kozott mozgott. Habar a legtobb ember nem hiszi hogy az index
fel fog menni sokat az elkovetkezendo 6 honapban, nem sokan hiszik azt sem
hogy nagyon le fog menni. Mindenki varja hogy  a gazdasagnak lesz egy "soft
landing" magyarul mondva egy "lagy leszallasa".

        A Torontoi Tozsdenek a 300as indexe bezart 4495 tel. A Kanadai
tozsde rendszerint egyutt megy New Yorkkal, de az utolso par honapban le
van maradva a Quebeci dolgok miatt.

        Igy vannak a dolgok az Atlantic Ocean masik oldalan. Tobbet a jovo

Robert Gelb C.M.A.,  Robert Gelb and Associates Inc.

12 Bradenton Drive, Willowdale, Ont. M2H 1Y5
(905)940-2380, (905)946-1734 FAX

Business Plan and Investment  Specialists
Business Plan Evaluations
Start up Ventures
Financial Consulting
+ - Nepszabadsag (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi fellow Hungarians,

My name is Adam Reiniger, and believe it or not I am a HUngarian living
in London.  My mother is Veronika Reiniger-Hahn, and she is the
corrspondent to London.  So anyone, who has read her articles, tell me
what you think about it!!

Adam Reiniger
+ - HUNGARY some sentences to Boris Bjelica - Yugo war (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Serbia is its primary interest and a friend (so does Serbia).  Hungary
>must claim full neutrality in the Yugo war and not try to get cheap
>points with Americans and western Europeans on accusing "Serbian beast"
>when its clear that no one in Yugoslavia is innocent.

    I am very positive that Hungarian goverment TRY to have full neutrality
 in the "south slav war". What all Hungarians are affraid about is that
 Hungary is PUSHED into this war and therafter H. is blamed as "war crimimal"
 what DID happened after WWI and WWII. Only one very very misterious fact :
 Horthy the Hungarian governor under WWII WAS NOT AMONG the war criminals in
 the Nurnberg trial. (Obviously I do not want to evaluate his role in
 Hungarian and European history that is extremally dificult task.) Obviously
 USA-England-French-Soviet could NOT have made a mistake like this if he
 had been war criminal. What happened with innocent Hungarians after
 WWII is not far from the tragedy of ethnic (either of the many sides)
 groups in the Yugo crisis today, and nobody gave any shit about them in the
 world at that time. Even it is very bloody, but at least the world
 realised that decades after WWII the ethnic problems HAVE NOT BEEN solved
 in the "Trianon countries", and mashine guns can not solve the problem.

    I wish the situation was "so smooth" like your words, but the situation
 is extremally drammatic in the Balkan.

    Unfortunatelly Hungary was victim TWO times of that "cheap points"
 after WWI and WWII and purely Hungarian areas were chopped off. When
 it was mentioned, some politicians responded as blaming Hungary with
 trying to violate/abuse other countries "integrity" and "territory".

  If you follow the Hungarian responds to the Yugo war, the "Serbian beast"
  was never told in its political retorics.
+ - Hungarian Opera, and Budapest Music life (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Having studied 5 years at the Liszt Academy in Budapest, I am interested
in discussions or news of Music and culture.  Does anyone have any
information on the Opera, Ballet etc.
+ - Bosnia; Iliescu (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I enjoyed Boris Bjelica writings. I feel keenship to him. He is
in the same situation as many of us were in 56. It does hurt to be away
from home.

>>>Facts are not all known, such as that 230,000 Serbs were kicked out of
>>>Sarajevo first, and then got on the hills to "liberate" it.

This fact is not known. In matter fact, I remember that at the beginning,
before the war, there was big demonstrations in Sarajevo, Serbians and
moslems alike against the Serbian nationalists and against the separation.
Even during the war many moslems and serbs peacefully coexisted in Sarajevo.
 So as far as we know it, the above information is false. Since I believe in
Boris, either the western or the serb media lying. (Until I am convinced
I will believe the western media.

Re: Clinton-Iliescu Meeting.

Not too long ago, most of us hungarians went through the mea culpa, concerning
our treatment of slovaks and romanians. (I feel I did my duty.) We provided
some excuses, (comparitive history) but it was also decided, that the present
counts, in which we do have grievances. Also as an addition to Kocsis Tamas
remark, with all the hungarian's faults, not one of the major minorities
were assimilated in the last 1000 years. Slovakia and Croatioa still
exists, and in Transylvania, which during Betlehem's rule I consider the only
true  (independent) Hungary (Hungary proper was under Habsburg and turkish
domination) the romanian population increased, so that by the first world
war it was 50% romanian. I would be happy if the hungarian minorities
would develop as well as that in the neighboring countries.

Alexander writes:

>>"Cultural" genocide is a b.s. term.

B.S term is a bit strong. The first time I saw it
(i.e."Cultural" genocide) , I considered it also a bit strong,
but I learned to like it. It is a good description. I agree "forced
assimilation is a more used description, and the more proper when used
in relation to immigrants, but less effective when the assimilation is
against historical minorities. And let's be fair, in political battles,
we all use expressions which are the most effective. It is done by all
political groups, hungarians are no exceptions.

+ - Re: Hungarian economy (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am interested in information relating to Hungarian management styles,
and also up to date information on the utility privatization currently in
process there.  Help!
+ - Re: Our Blind Spot For Vojvodina (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Sun, 8 Oct 1995  wrote:

Hereby, I would like to respond to Mr. Bila Liptak's article, and to
clarify some historical facts wrt Vojvodina region.  It seems that that
there have been some misinterpretations of the facts.  I will do a sort
of reply since I believe it's good to "face" a Serbian and a Hungarian
point of view on an issue such as this.

>         Bila Liptak >         84 Old N. Stamford Road, Stamford, CT
>         T:203-357-7614, Fax:203-325-3922,
>          E-Mail: 
> It might seem that the Holbrooke-Milosevic pact will deliver justice, as it
> makes the Bosnian Serbs to taste their own medicine. Unfortunately, the
> domino-effect of this pact creates worst problems than what it solves and the
> new victims are innocent third parties: Hungarians and Albanians. Because the
> American public is totally unaware of this, I prepared the attached OP-ED
> piece. If you need it, I can also fax you maps: Bila Liptak.
>         The Balkan Tragedy: Our Blind Spot For Vojvodina
> Vojvodina's population is greater than Bosnia's. A multi-cultural tapestry of
> Hungarian, Croatian, Serb, German, Roma, Slovak, Romanian and Ruthenian
> cultures flourished here for centuries. Yet, many maps don't even distinguish
> Vojvodina from Serbia and few know what is happening there, because few
> reporters ever visit Vojvodina. Yet, the process of ethnic cleansing, which
> caused the Bosnian tragedy, has also reached Vojvodina. The majority of the
> over 200,000 Serbs dislodged from the Krajina region of Croatia and from
> southern Bosnia are being used to extricate the Hungarian population of
> Vojvodina.
>        Why is it, that by attempting to solve one problem (Bosnia), we manage
> to create two: the de- stabilizing of both Vojvodina and Kosovo? Why is it,
> that the ethnic cleansing of the Krajina Serbs from Croatia, which our State
> Department called  a window of opportunity for peace , and the ethnic
> cleansing of the south-Bosnia Serbs, which is a byproduct of NATO's bombing,
> might not facilitate peace, and in fact, could draw the neighboring countries
> of Hungary and Albania into the conflict. Why is it, that in order to make
> Slobodan Milisevic to sign on to the American-led Contact Group's peace
> proposal, he has to be offered a trade-off, at the expense of the Hungarians
> in Vojvodina and of the Albanians in Kosovo?

A little remark.  First of all, Albanians in Kosmet currently make 90% of
the population (about 1.8 million).  There are only 2,000 Serbs who went
to Kosovo.  That can't in any way change anything.  Albanian
natality is the highest of Europe (38 promiles).  Their population
rised from 200,000 in 1945 to 2 million in 1991.

Problems of Kosmet and Vojvodina are two separate and different
problems.  The problem with Kosmet is historical because Serbs face the
extermination at their historical region.  Albanian way of life counters
the Serbian, and a compromise is very hard to find except some
territorial division.

Vojvodina is quite different.  Both Andras Agoston and Ferenc Csubela
(leaders of Hungarians in Serbia) advocate forms of autonomy which don't
oppose Serbian sovereignty.  They have wisely stated that it's more
important to solve Hungarian problem for all of Vojvodina by providing
three forms of autonomy - personal, territorial (for all of Vojvodina),
and ethnical.  All three exist on the paper, but they are not implemented.
All in all, Vojvodina problem can easily be solved if Serbia shows
neccessary flexibility.  Those days are coming as Milosevic is leaving.
Serbia as a whole can prosper only if decentrilized and not directed
through Milosevic's office.

>       To find the answers, we have to understand the mind-set of the
> bureaucrats in the State Department. In the Kissinger-Eagleburger cookbook,
> the recipe for solving international problems is to mix one part of selective
> justice with two parts of alternating determination against and appeasement
> of the aggressors. The recipe avoids the salt of an overall plan or of a long
> range regional concept. Bureaucrats believe that only the victors deserve
> justice and only the losers can be found guilty. Therefore the Serbs deserve
> full autonomy within Bosnia, but the minorities in Serbia, or elsewhere in
> Central Europe do not.

Incorrect.  Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina are not a "minority".  Or to
put it your way, there are 3 minorities in BH - Muslim, Croat, and Serb.
All three have the right to self-determination.

Minorities in Serbia do deserve the autonomy, though.

>        For most of the last 1100 years, Vojvodina was part of Hungary. Only
> after the dismemberment of the Hungarian Kingdom and the creation of such
> unnatural entities as Yugoslavia in 1918-20, did Vojvodina become an
> autonomous region of that federation. According to the 1974 Yugoslav
> constitution, Vojvodina should be an autonomous province of Yugoslavia (not
> Serbia!) This autonomy, and that of Kosovo, were arbitrarily rescinded in
> 1990.

This paragraph is very much misleading.  The fact is that region k.a.
Vojvodina has been mostly part of Austrian and Hungarian countries.  But,
the region of original Vojvodina (Banat, Backa, Baranja) declared its
unification with Kingdom of Serbia in 1918.  First it became a part of
the Kingdom of Serbia (which militarilly took over the region), and then
Kingdom of Serbia got united with Austrian dominated areas of Yugoslavia
to form the SCS Kingdom ("Yugoslavia").

Your statement w.r.t. Vojvodinian autonomy as part of Yugoslavia, but not
Serbia is a misinterpretation.  Since 1918, Vojvodina ("the land of
Dukes" in Serbian) was in every Serbian constitution regarded as its
integral part.

The "yogurt" revolution in 1988 (NOT 1990!!!) led to the Vojvodinian loss
of the previous form of autonomy.  The "revolution" was led by
Vojvodinian politicians loyal to Milosevic, primarily Mihaly Kertesz and
Nedeljko Sipovac.

After all, your country (U.S.) has taken an active part on dismembering
Yugoslavia, so why do you refer to a "Yugoslav" constitution which was
heavily violated by the U.S.?

>        Vojvodina is the breadbasket of Serbian-Yugoslavia. It is already it's
> most densely populated region, consisting of the Srem, which was part of
> Croatia-Slavonia until 1918, Backa, which was part of Hungary and the western
> part of Banat, also part of Hungary. The Hungarians did not get involved in
> the Bosnian war. They did not side with any of the warring factions.
> Consequently they are being treated as enemies by all.

Srem was a part of Austria until 1918.  Parts of Belgrade (Zemun, Novi
Beograd) are in Srem.

It is not true that Vojvodina is most densely populated region. It is
Kosovo and Metokhia (not just "Kosovo").  Kosmet, twice smaller in size,
has 2 mill. people as well as Vojvodina.

>      Today Croatia and Serbia are getting ready to fight over the Hungarian
> villages of Eastern Slavonia. Croatia is also furthering her ethnic purity by
> quadrupling the taxes on the Adriatic vacation homes of Vojvodina Hungarians,
> which, under the present economic conditions is the same as confiscating
> them. Yet, this is nothing compared to what the Serbs are doing to the
> Vojvodina Hungarians.

Appendix: "Comparing" is always a bad business.  Hungarians have paid a
big price in Slavonia once already.  Their villages in Baranja region were
emptied in 1991 when Serbs and Croats clashed.

>        At the time of Hungary's dismemberment in 1920, Vojvodina's Serb
> population was only 25%. Through expulsions, and other forms of uprooting of
> the non-Serb population and by importing Serb colonialists, the Serbian
> population by 1948, has increased to 55%. During the Communist era, this
> ethnic cleansing process has further intensified, and by 1991 the Hungarian
> population of Vojvodina was reduced to 17%.  Today, only 350,000 Hungarians
> remain in Vojvodina and the only compact cluster of Hungarian presence that
> survives is in the north-central part, along the Tisza river. It is this
>  problem  that the Serb refugees from the Krajina and south-Bosnia are
> supposed to  solve .

This is more less correct.  But you disregard that today's Vojvodina
includes Srem (which was predominantly Serbian prior to 1918) and
excludes Baranja.  In 1920, there were 29% of the Serbs in Baranja,
Banat, and Backa.  Today's Vojvodina has 57.7% of Serbs. The number of
"Serbian" Hungarians is higher than stated (they number about 450,000), but
many have left Serbia due to war draftings (as well as 250,000 young Serbs).
Milosevic' regime still doesn't grant them amnesty, but amnesty is a part
of the Holbrooke-Milosevic deal.

It is quite true that different methods of colonialism were introduced to
Vojvodina, but it's silly to blame only Serbs for that.  First of all,
Banat region had some 450,000 Germans which were all brutally expelled in
1945 due to "their involvement in Nazi genocide", as Tito's Communists
stated. That was a genocide itself because today no traces of German
culture can  be found- churches, cemetaries, etc. -traces of German
culture are not detectable anymore.

Please note that colonialism which took place in 1945-1950 was mainly
directed towards these formerly German regions.  It's quite clear today
that Croat Josip Broz Tito started bringing Krajina and Bosnian Serbs to
these regions in order to "homogenize" Croatia.  The fact is that
Hungarians and others pay the price, but things are not black-white; it
wasn't exactly the Serbs who should be blamed.

>  According to the Democratic Community of Hungarians in Vojvodina:  The
> Hungarians of Vojvodina are facing the danger of a FINAL SOLUTION, because
> Vojvodina is being purged of its non-Serb popula tion.  According to them,
> the Croat victory in the Krajina and in south-Bosnia was so swift, because
> this  population transfer  has already been agreed to by both the Serbs and
> the Croats.
>        Bila Csorba, a Hungarian MP in the Serb-Yugoslav Parliament, described
> the ethnic cleansing of a small Hungarian village named Svilojevo (Szilagyi)
> in this manner:  The Krajina Serbs cruised up and down the streets of Apatin,
> Sombor, Sonta and Svilojevo. On August 11, 1995 homes were confiscated from
> their owners. By the time we have arrived to investigate, the village was
> almost completely abandoned by its original inhabitants.

That is unfortunately an outcome of the war.  Criminals should pay for
that, and people should go back home.  "Highlander Serbs" (as Bosnian and
Krajina ones are called) certainly should go back home.  But it
unfortunately seems unlikely as long as Tudjman's regime is in place, and
as long as Milosevic is in power.

To my knowledge, Serbian police has kicked the refugees out, and houses
were given back to their owners.  But your point is clear -  it is very
hard to feel free when things like that happen.

>        Part of the problem is due to the difference in the personalities
> between the Krajina Serbs and the Vojvodina Hungarians. The Krajina Serbs
> have a warrior mentality, they carry guns, for centuries they have been in
> uninterrupted conflict with the Croats, their view of life is based on
> constant struggle and hate for one's neighbors, their personality corresponds
> to the rugged terrain they have inherited. The placidity of Vojvodina
> Hungarians corresponds to the openness of their fertile plains. Yet, their
> friendly and mild personality does not mean, that their patience is
> unlimited. They are a strong and determined people. Monica Seles is a
> Vojvodina Hungarian.

Absolutely true.  The same is for Vojvodinian Serbs.

>        Politicians who push Hungarians to the limit, should remember 1915,
> the only time when Serbia was occupied in this century, or 1956, when the Red
> Army learned, what happens, when Hungarians lose their temper. Hungary has
> already accepted some 50,000 Hungarian and some 100,000 non-Hungarian
> refugees from the disintegrating Yugoslavia. This economic burden, combined
> with the loss of Hungary's southern markets, is testing her frail economy to
> the limit. She has already protested the ethnic cleansing of Vojvodina and
> will have no choice, but to defend her interests more forcefully if this
> process continues.
>      So what should be done in the microcosm of Vojvodina and in the
> macrocosm of Central Europe?
>      To Vojvodina, UN and NATO observers should be dispatched immediately,
> and the restoration of her autonomy should be made an integral part of any
> overall peace agreement.

Autonomy should be redefined, that's for sure.  But if "NATO" or any
other Serbian declared enemies (NATO killed more than 1,000 Serbs,
wounded several thousand, destroyed bridges, communications, and many
civilian buildings) come, that's certainly not good. That will only stir
the Balkan mixture even more.  Think about it.  "Dispatching" troops or
"observers" won't change anything.  If Krajina Serbs and other radical
elements remain in Vojvodina, they will even more frighten the minorities
by their individual actions, and that will lead to an even worse
situation for Hungarians.  The solution must be found in democraticizing
Serbia.  Americans all think that humiliating Serbs and Serbia is the
answer.  That's been proven wrong last 5 years and indirectly caused
horrible sufferings of the Balkan peoples.  Serbs as whole are quite
different by the region they come from, but all have one thing in common -
that is "pride".  Even usually peacefull Vojvodina Serbs have shown
to be very nationalistic with regard to the war.

>      As to the whole of Central Europe, it is essential to replace the
> practice of selective justice and appeasement of aggressors with  clearly
> defined overall goals and with uniform standards that are applicable to all.
> Richard Holbrooke is right, when he wants to provide group rights to all
> three ethnic groups in Bosnia, but he is wrong, if he wants to limit these
> rights only to Bosnia. There will be no peace in Central Europe, until all
> ethnic groups are guaranteed their autonomy.
>      On the other hand, once the ethnic tensions are eliminated through the
> universal guarantee of cultural autonomy, the root cause of the upheavals in
> the Balkans can also be solved. It is  power vacuum  in the region.
> Throughout history, the Balkans were stable only, when a local power in the
> Danubian Basin guaranteed it. The present power vacuum can only be eliminated
> through the formation of an economically self-sufficient, politically stable
> and militarily neutral Danubian Confederation.

You are right, but contradict yourself.  Your way is "slap Serbia, and
then it's all OK".  Yes, from a Hungaro-centric point of view, you are
right.  All you wrote would be so great if it didn't have negative
consequences to it.  The history can't be reversed, and Serbs will never
get their "heart" back (Kosmet, the heart of medieval Serbia), they are
kicked out of their Krajina (the "fender" Austro-Hungarian empire against
the Turks).  Also, Vojvodinian pop. ratio from 1918 can't be reclaimed.
The least civilized people can do in Serbia is fight through the democratic
institutions.  Serbia needs help, it needs democracy.

>        In 1920, President Wilson felt, that only through the formation of a
> Danubian Confederation can a peaceful and prosperous Central Europe be
> reestablished. It would be a tribute to Wilsonian vision, if President
> Clinton, when, on the 26th of September, he meets the President of Romania,
> he would use the occasion to express his support for the Danubian
> Confederation.

Only closer ties between Serbia and Hungary (which can be materialized
through such a confederation) can fully solve the problem.  Giving
Hungarians their personal autonomy, territorial where needed (in counties
of Backa), and all other forms of autonomy which are of both their and
Serbian interest, is the way to go.  That's for sure.

Thanks for the article.  I suggest you introduce this to the Serbian
news-groups or organizations because only dialogue can solve the problem.
You see what bad has done ignoring of others' interests in the Balkans'

> Bila Liptak is a former Yale professor, who has published many technical
> books and has recently been invited to Budapest as a Fulbright Scholar.

Boris Bjelica
native of Montenegro and Belgrade
senior in Electrical Engr. at Oregon State University
+ - Hungarian Utility Privatizations (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am looking for any information on the Hungarian electric and natural gas
industry privatizations.  Help!  Any contact name in Hngary would be
helpful.  Thankyou!
+ - xx (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Horn, meeting on the weekend in Warsaw, where both attended a meeting of
the Central European Initiative, agreed to set up a joint commission to
examine educational reform, which has been the subject of an ongoing
dispute between Bucharest and Budapest. Radio Bucharest said the joint
commission will review the question of minority-language education in
the two countries and reveal its conclusions at Romanian-Hungarian
summit meetings.

  The Bosnian prime minister said Hungary was due yesterday to
  reopen a gas pipeline to Sarajevo.
+ - HUNGARY - ADOPTION?? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


We are a Canadian family of Hungarian origin.

We are thinking about adopting a Hungarian orphan, a girl between
8-10 years old.

If there is anyone out there who has adopted from Hungary, or
knows the procedure to follow, please E-mail us at:  

Your help would be greatly appreciated.


+ - Lukas, Imre (painter) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi all,
        If you know anything about Imre Lukas please respond to this post or
better yet e-mail me. A friend of mine knows that I have access to
this thing called the Internet, and thinks that I can get him any
information there is. Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks.

+ - Magyarok A Vilagon (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hello! Szeretnek Magyarokkal beszelni bar honnan a Vilagon Minden erdekel
kivetal a politika es vallas oreg Fradi drukker eljottem 1965 be es azota
elek itt        Frank
+ - Ertektozsde augusztusban (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

___MAGYAR ELEKTRONIKUS TOZSDE____________________________HU-ISSN_1216-0229

    1995. augusztus ho esemenyeinek osszefoglaloja

Az arfolyamok lassu emelhedese jellemezte az augusztust!

Augusztus honap folyaman a Budapesti =C9rtektozsde az elozo honaphoz
kepest 70%-kal nagyobb azonnali forgalmat es a tozsde eddigi legnagyobb
reszvenyuzletet regisztralta,=20
Az azonnali forgalom juliushoz kepest tobb, mint 10 milliard forinttal
emelkedett. Kedvezo hogy osszforgalombol a reszvenyek reszesedese
meghaladja 81%-ot, amely az elozo havinak tobb, mint ketszerese. Ez
jelentos mertekben az EGIS-re a honap elejen kotott uzletnek koszonheto.

A tozsde hivatalos reszvenvindexe - a BUX- egy honap alatt 82 ponttal
erosodott, auagusztus vegen 1567.54 ponton zart, es ezzel elerte idei
legmagaasabb erteket.

A tozsdei kapitalizacio 9.4%-kal emelkedett, igy meahaladta az 1080 milliar=
Ft-ot. Ennek jelentos reszet az OTP reszvenveinek tozsdei bevezetese

Augusztusi esemeny a legnagyobb mgyarorszagi kereskedelmi bank. az OTP
papirjainak augusztus 10-i tozsdei bevezetese jelentette. A csomnag 26.86
millio darab 1000 forintos neverteku reszveyt tartalmazott.  Graboplast
pedig alaptokeemelest hajtott vegre, 937636 darab uj reszveny kerult  a
B=C9T-re, 128  milliard forint ertekben.

I. Azonnali piac

I.l. Reszvenyek

Sikeresen indult az augusztus a B=C9T-en mivel fennallasanak  Iegnagyobb
ugylete kottetett. A NatWest penzugyi befekteto ceg arfolyamerteken 5
milliard 560 millioert vasarolta meg a EGIS tobb, mint 2,2 millio darab
reszvenyet. Ezzel az, APV Rt. tulajdonaban levo, 28%-os resztulajdont
jelento  utolso  csomag  is  eladasra  kerult.  A veteli  ar  2550
Ft/reszveny. (a kotes joval a piaci ar alatt maradt!!)
A NatWest kovetkezo napon  el  adott 462300 darab reszvyenyt 2625 Ft
aron (-ezek a tranzakciok kedvezoen hatottak az EGIS arfolyamara)

Az OTP 26,85 millio darab torzsreszvenyenek a bevezetese jotekonyan hatott
a tozsdei kereskedesre. Az 1200 Ft-os kibocsatasi aron indult kereskedeesi
arszintet a papir nem tudta tartani. Az OTP auausztus 24-en is
az erdeklodes kozeppontjaba kerult, mert a Creditanstalt =C9rtekpapir Rt.
elt a veteli opeiojaval annak ellenere, hooy a papir ara joval az
1200 Ft-os opcios ar alatt mozgott a honap folyaman, .

Az arfolyamok valtozasa es az uj bevezetesek kovetkezteben a tozsdei
reszvenytarsasagok atlagos piaci mutatoi - az alabbiak szerint valtoztak:
  P/E mutato 21,81-rol  17,97-re csokkent,
  P/BV a honap vegen 1.18
  az osztalekhozam 4,31-rol 3,28-ra csokkent.
A reszvenvpiac kapitalizacioja - az uj bevezeteseknek is koszonhetoen -
majdnem 22%-kal nott, augusztus vegen 218,74 milliard forintot (1.65
milliard US dollar) tett ki.

 A honap leskeresettebb papirjai:
  EGIS (15MdFt),=20
  Danubius (805MFt),
  Richter (861 MFt),
  OTP (813 MFt)

I.2. Allampapirok

Az allamkotvenyek piacat juliushoz kepest  70%-os forgalomnovekedes (3
milliard Ft) jellemezte, a kincstarjegyek forgalma azonban tobb, mint
otodere (1,1 milliard Ft) esett.

I.3. Befektetesi jegyek

Augusztusban  35 befektetesi  alap jegyeire arfolyamerteken  139 millio
forint ertekben kotottek uzletet a tozsde parkettjen. A befektetesi jeayek
forgalma a julius havi oriasi novekedes utan kozel hetedere esett vissza.

I.4. Karpotlasi jegyek

 - a forgalm tovabb csokkent (214 MFt forgalom a B=C9T -en zaroar (203 Ft) =
nevertekre  vetitve (1472 Ft) 12%-os  arfolyamnak  felel  meg A karpotlasi
jegyek  kapitaizacioja 26.33 millard forintra csokkent.

II. Hataridos piac

osszesen 277 millio forintos forgalom
Ez az elozo havi forgalomnak tobb, mint a ketszerese.  A  nyitott
kotesallomany a honap vegen 461 kontraktusra emelkedett, arfolyamerteken
pedig 250 millio forintot ert  el.  (Ez kozel 409%-os  emelhedest jelent.)
a honapot a devizapiac ismetelt fellendulese jellemezte

 Kincstarjegy  viszonylagos stabil elszamolo ar

 BUX elszamolo ar novekedes

 Deviza  a  marka  vezeto  szerepe kapott

III. Tozsden kivuli piac

MOL Rt.  e piac 83% -at adja

A kotveny piac 80 - 95% az OTC piacon realizalodik
a Karpotlsi jegy 57 %

A B=C9T vallalatai   augusztus 31-en

                              Zaror       Datum     legm.    lega.
                               ar Ft                   ar  Ft
jegyzett kategoria

Danubius                       1.250   1995.08.31   1,390     405
Dunaholding n.                 4.000   1995.08.30   4.450   3,000
Egis                           3.050   1995.08.31   3.085   1.810
FOTEX                            166   1995.08.31     418     147
Graboplast                     1.600   1995.08.31   1.760   1,005
IBUSZ                            970   1995.08.31   1.550     600
Konzum                           391   1995.08.31     785     380
OTP                            1.080   1995.08.31   1.200   1.000
Pick Szeged                    6.640   1995 08.31   8.020   5.395
Richter                        2.300   1995.08.31   2.300   1.365
Soproni Sorgyer                2.350   1995.08.31   5.015   1.840
Slyl                             890   1995.08.25   2.700     875
Snrada-Skala b.                3.600   1995.08.28   3,600   1.000
Snreda-Skala n.                3.600   1995.08.28   6.600   2.900
Zalakeramia                    3.350   1995.08.29   3.355   1.500
ZWACK Unicum                   3.100   1995.08 31   6.110   2.890

Forgalmazott kategoria

Agrinpex b.                    15,500   1995.08.31  27,500   7.000
Agrimpex n.                    15,450   1995.08.31  27.100   7.200
AranyPok                        3,900   1995.08.30  10.000   3.000
Balaton Fuszert                 3 700   1995.08.31   8.400   3.500
Bonbon Hemingway                2.050   1995.0824    2.300   1.350
Csemege,juliusMeinl            11.100   1995.08.30  20.500  10.000
Csopak b.                         575   1995 08 30     730     450
Csopak n.                         520   1995.08.31     910     500
Domus                             565   1995.08.31   1.295     460
Fonix                             895   1995.0524      895     895
Garagent                        1.890   1995.08.29   2.700    1.830
Global                          1.500   1995.08.31   1.500    1.160
Globus                          1.040   1995.08.31   2.610    1.015
Goldsun                           475   1995.08.31   1.060      400
Hajdutej Tejipari Rt.           2.150   1995.08.31   2.300    1.750
NUMAN Rt.                       1.065   1995.08.31   1.235      990
Hungagent n.                    1.300   1995.08.17   1.400    1.000
Inter-EuropaBank               10.200   1995.08.31  13.950   10.000
KONTRAX Irodatechnika              30   1995.08.28     500       10
KONTRAX Telekom                    20   1995.08.31     400        9
Martfui Sorgyar                 2.240   1995.08.31    4.225   2.000
NITROIL                         1.000   1995.08.04    2.650     800
Pannoflax                         280   1995 08 31      520     150
Pannonplast                     1.600   1995.08.31    1.600     990
Pannon-Valto                      635   1995.08.31      695     560
Pharmavit                       5.000   1995.08.31    8.000   4.450
Primagaz                        3.630   1995 08 31    3.665   1.800
Skala-Coop 5                    1.500   1995.08.16    2.050   1.200  =20
kala-Coop T                     2 240   1995 08 28    2.870   1.500

| Publisher /Kiado: ORCZAN, Zsolt  e-mail.:            |
| Chief editor /Foszerkeszto: ORCZAN, Csaba  e-mail.:  |
| Rovataink megrendelese, lemondasa /sub; unsub by/  cimen |

***  MET   BUDAPEST PoBox. 311.  HUNGARY, H-1536***    ***
+ - Looking for a Ph.D course abroad (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Newsreader,

     My name is Joseph Szadai and I am a chemical engineer in
Hungary. I graduated this June.

I would like to inquire if you have any information about Ph.D
courses in the USA or in Canada.

As I already wrote I graduated this June, and have a degree in
Chemical Engineering and Industrial Management.
Currently I am working at a plastic producing company which
is making polyethylene foams. It is a Japanese-Hungarian
company. I am applied as a technical developer. My work is to
create new technologies and doing a research in order to
produce polyethylene foams in better quality.

I am planning to take a Ph.D course especially in a country
where the official language is English. (USA, Canada, UK) not
only on the field I am working on now, but any other fields of
Especially I am interested in analytical chemistry,
inorganic chemistry, oil refinery, quality assurance, chemistry
related or other computer using and software development.
I am very much interested in researches on these fields but
unfortunately the circumstances in Hungary don't allow many
students to work on different researches.

I made my BS thesis at the Analytical department, here at
Budapest Technical University. I developed and tested new
ionic selective membrans. Also I wrote a computer software
which evaluates my results.

My MS thesis is a major computer software which calculates
the critical points of vapor-liquid mixtures, based on the
excess free energy modell.

If you are interested I will send to you my resume.

Also I am interested - if there is any possibility of it -
to work on a research or on a development for a while and
start the Ph.D course later.

Ph.D Please let me know if you have any information, suggestion,
or if you know any appropriate persons who I could write to
concerning this matter.

Please E-mail me if you can help. Thank you.


                        Joseph Szadai

                    E-mail: , or