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1 Re: Komondorok, Kuvaszok, es Pulik (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
2 List matters (was: About Slovak fascism, general remark (mind)  62 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: About Slovak fascism, general remarks (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Hungarhotels (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Mr. Frajkor, listowner of Slovak-L (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Komondorok, Kuvaszok, es Pulik (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
7 test (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Komondorok, Kuvaszok, es Pulik (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Mr. Frajkor & racist messages on "his" list (mind)  46 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Who are you Mr. Kanala??!! WAS: Re: * Mr. Frajkor, (mind)  37 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Langos (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
12 Horthy korszak (mind)  55 sor     (cikkei)
13 Alapszerzodes (mind)  100 sor     (cikkei)
14 A. Albu (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: Alapszerzodes (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
16 The traveling Pope (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: The traveling Pope (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: Collective Rights (mind)  45 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: Hungarhotels (mind)  84 sor     (cikkei)
20 Family History (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: Hungarian Coat of Arms (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: Heidegger and Hungary Part 3 (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
23 Re: Komondorok, Kuvaszok, es Pulik (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
24 Re: Hungarian Coat of Arms (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
25 Re: Komondorok, Kuvaszok, es Pulik (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
26 Re: My 'Gutter language' (mind)  68 sor     (cikkei)
27 Re: Langos (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
28 Re: My 'Gutter language' (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Komondorok, Kuvaszok, es Pulik (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>With all due respect, and a large nudge-nudge, wink-wink, what kind of a
>#!*+$##@! god could have created a Shitzu?  Istenem!
>Joe Szalai

igazan??? a tied???



+ - List matters (was: About Slovak fascism, general remark (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

It was written to this list:

>Sometimes I have to admire Eva's literary fecundity:  In Hungary #779 she
>produced no less than eleven (11) articles with a total of 303 lines.  She
>seems to have spent most of the day doing so; she began at 7:55 am and didn't
>quit for the day until 7:14 pm.  Sometimes she says interesting things, other
>times she just regurgitates her favorite opinions.


Sorry as I am, I cannot see the relevance of the above text neither to the
discussed matter, the Slovak fascism, or more in general, forms of the
contemporary fascisms in the Central Europe, nor to the very purpose of
the forum.

>  ...          ...                 The above quote is a good
>example; like a pavlovian dog, she can produce an instant conditioned reflex,
>in this case, to the word "fascist".  She has her favorite "fascist" story
>and she will repeat it at a drop of a hat, no matter how disjointed it may be
>to the discussion at hand.  She must have told that one a half dozen times in
>Forum and in Hungary in the last several months.  I don't recall the name of
>the person she had the argument with -- may have been NPA -- over the meaning
>"nazi" versus "fascist".  Because she was shown to be imprecise in her use of
>the two words, she never forgave her debate partner.  Hence the wound that
>will not heal.

>From the whole bunch of words, I see only one point which maybe deserves
to be addressed: the difference between "nazism" and "fascism". It happens
that I had an opportunity to think about recently (my compliments to Mr.
Frajkor, listowner of Slovak-L) and maybe some reader will find these
reflexions interesting. In order to keep the real issues separated from
personal remarks, I prefer to address that point in a separate article.

>Eva, please learn to be a bit more willing to learn from your opponents as
>well as from  your partisans.  And while I am at it: Hoping that you will not
>resent it, let me help you with a word you are consistently misspelling:  The
>word is Wolf (not Woolf).

Dr. Balogh > also wrote on Tue Sep  3 08:00:48 EDT :

>At 04:32 PM 8/30/96 +0200, Roman Kanal wrote an excellent description of
>Slovak "fascism."

My name has been misspelled, too... And I don't have the feeling to be
one of Dr. Balogh's opposants.

A more list-related remark: as a habit, when I go to newsgroups, I am
already wearing boxer gloves, yes, I am reading mostly Slovak-L where
they are necessary. I used to come to Hungary list to enjoy more reasonable
views and more scholar approach. But Hungary list also changed, personal
attacks, nationalism, Great Hungary appeared and sometimes hide the rational

That the level of the discussion is never going to the one of the Slovak-L
list the merit is to the Hungary list listowner. Be proud of him. Believe
me, I know what I am speaking about.

Roman Kanala
+ - Re: About Slovak fascism, general remarks (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>  ... over the meaning
>"nazi" versus "fascist".

As I wrote in my previous contribution to this matter and Dr. Balogh also
pointed out, the word "fascism" has no exact definition and there is no
exact frontier that, once crossed, makes one to be a fascist. There are
complex definitions, like the one introduced by Dr. Scruton who says
(approximately and from my memory only, using my words, sorry, I cannot
remember the source) that it is a convergence of various intellectual
streams and influences rather than a distinct separate idea system, but
the distinctive sign is the ability to win popular support to ideas that
are reactionary (anti-egalitarian in the sense introduced by 1789, anti-
democratic, nationalist, negating the values of the enlightement, cult
of a charismatic autocratic leader, cult of tribal symbols, economic

As for the "nazism", it's one of the forms of the fascism that originally
denoted the German fascism born from socialist movements and eventually
got forms of extreme-nationalist, racialist, bio-determinist movement
with characterised paranoid scapegoating of "inferior" races and nations.
Today, one can encounter the theme of Slovak supremacy (Mr. Frajkor on the
Slovak-L list). Magyar supremacy is also being promoted by some people on
Internet, no need to quote names, everyone has remarked them.

Historically, the Southern forms of fascism (Spain, to some extent Italy)
have avoided the ultime deshumanisation in form of racism. Unfortunately,
the Central European ones, including the Balkans, have embraced the most
horrible forms of the fascism, bringing back the idea of "ethnic cleansing".
Let's this be a memento.

Roman Kanala
+ - Re: Hungarhotels (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:52 PM 9/7/96 -0400, Peter Soltesz wrote:
>Perhaps that it why our
>forefathers in the USA created the system of checks and balances --- ah
>yes, it may be slow, but at least we can be somewhat assured that there
>is less hanky panky going on --- which is after all what peopel should
>expect from government - LESS is MORE!

In that case, Peter, I want you to have everything.


Joe "I love BIG BROTHER" Szalai
+ - Re: Mr. Frajkor, listowner of Slovak-L (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

: York University has such a reputation in Canada that the only two
: ....
: University, where quite large group of lecturers obtained their PhD's
: in Hungary in 6 months and for $10,000 fee.
: Frank Bures, Dept. of Chemistry, University of Toronto, ON, M5S 3H6
Meanwhile, U of Toronto is the immaculate, perfect university in Canada,
is that what you're trying to say?  I do not know about the above
incident, but my degree was little bit more than $10,000 with,
believe it or not, some effort on my part as well.  Your low blow at York
here is unnecessary.  If you want to start a university rivalry, then
you better get off the net and visit residences where frosh students
live.  Howgh!
+ - Re: Komondorok, Kuvaszok, es Pulik (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Mark Humphreys wrote:
>>This dog discussion is really informative. I agree with
>>the above praise of Shitzus. A neighbor of mine is going
>>to start raising them. They seem to need a lot
>>of grooming, though.
>With all due respect, and a large nudge-nudge, wink-wink, what kind of a
>#!*+$##@! god could have created a Shitzu?  Istenem!
>Joe Szalai
>Joe:don't you dare to say anytjing bad about Shitzu"s(grin).They are one of
the sweetest companions as far as I am concerned.They are cross beetwen
Penkingeese and Lhas-Apso's.Probaly inheriting the best of both.I am a dog
lover and love all kinds of them.They are better then some human
beings,since they have to be trained to fight or bite.There are no vars in
the dog world.
+ - test (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

This is only a test message
+ - Re: Komondorok, Kuvaszok, es Pulik (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 11:37 AM 9/8/96 -0400, Andy wrote:

>They are better then some human
>beings,since they have to be trained to fight or bite.There are no vars in
>the dog world.

I always thought that (except for the sick ones) human beings are born good
and then are educated into being beasts. Like dogs (no insult do dogs intended)

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: Mr. Frajkor & racist messages on "his" list (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Mr. Roman Kanala wrote:
: blah, blah, blah....
: Mr. Frajkor did this.......Mr. Frajkor did that....
: blah, blah, blah
Roman, if I was to collect all the lies, all the sexism, all the
abuse and harrasement, and all the vulgarism that your followers
write (Magyar K.K.K. [Kanala's Kleansing Klan]), I would spend my whole
life doing it.
Why don't you clean up your own house first?
[personal attack on a Net user:]

>Maj-te sa
>Martin Lewinski
[comment on a homosexual professor:]

> Do not forget that Ryeson PROFESSOR peddling his bony ass as a
> prostitute - what was his name? Hannon?
> Rosta
[comment for Roman, very well written, I couldn't have said it better

I am a sometime surveyor of this list and am astounded at the increasing
level of animosity from Mr. Kanala towards Mr. Frajkor.  This last post
amounts to a personal attack, has crossed a line of decency.  It does
not have any relevance to the spirit of this list, and Mr. Kanala, you
seem amazingly unconcerned about this fact.

If the idea of picking apart Mr. Frajkor's credentials was to convince
others that your arguments about Slovak history are more sound, it is
nothing but an ad hominum attack anyway.  True scholars would laugh at

Perhaps, Mr. Kanala, you would be happier if ou took a break from all
this talk, made yourself a tea, and watched some TV or listened to some
nice music.  Too much bile is bad for a person's health.

Peter Knazko
Kanata, Ontario
+ - Re: Who are you Mr. Kanala??!! WAS: Re: * Mr. Frajkor, (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Johanne L. Tournier wrote:
> At 11:37 05/09/96 +1000, George Antony wrote:
> >Could you guys please cease using the HUNGARY list for this tussle.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >George Antony
> Yes, the Hungarians have enough to tussle about on their own!
> Yours,
> Johanne
> Johanne L. Tournier
> e-mail - 

What is that  HUNGARY list.

I open USENET NEWSGROUPS from <http://mars.uthscsa.edu/Russia/newsgroup.html>;
 or any other entrance point and there is no HUNGARY list. There is only

<soc.culture.magyar> and <bit.listserv.hungary

Through HIX you could find something like that, but then that is
slow and controlled and is just a re listing. Why cut and categorize
up the discussion in an arbitrary fashion. Who has the time for that?

The materian in sco.culture.romanian or others is way larger and is
not segmented.
The discussion and thematic content are much better. That is indeed
a national debate a rel news group no dog shows there..

A. Albu
+ - Re: Langos (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

So how you get a senator out of that?

+ - Horthy korszak (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Afonya wrought:
> Gyakran tapasztalom, hogy ha a "Horthy korszak" kerul szoba,
> akkor sokaknak reflexszeruen a "nagybirtok, cseledseg,
> proletariatus" szavak ugranak be. Ebben persze van valami,
> csak epp az nem igaz, hogy ezek meghatarozo tenyezok
> lettek volna!
> Nezzuk a szamokat! Magyarorszag muvelheto foldterulete
> ebben az idoben kb. 7.5 millio hektar volt. Ebbol kb. 1.2 mil
> hektar volt olyan birtok, amely az 575 hektart meghaladta
> (maganszemelyek illetve az egyhaz tulajdonaban).
> Az egyhazi tulajdonrol tudni kell, hogy annak hozama
> donto reszben az iskolarendszer fenntartasa ment el.
> Vagyis a nagyon-nagyon sokat emlegetett "nagybirtok"
> az osszes muvelheto terulet kb. 15 %-t tette ki! Ez egyebkent
> jobb arany, mint az akkori Hollandia vagy Dania eseteben.
> Most pedig nezzuk az aktiv keresok megoszlasat! (1941-ben)
>                                                    %
> Szellemi foglalkozasu                            7.3
> Onallo kisiparos, kereskedo                      8.2
> Munkas                                           25.1
> Haztart. alk.                                    3.7
> Napszamos                                        1.0
> Onallo foldmuves                                 32.0
> Mezg. munkas,cseled                              17.7
> Egyeb                                             5.0

If you add

unemployed intellectuals           3
Proletariat                       25.1
Domestic help                     3.7
temporary workers                  1
agrarian servants                 17.7
others                             5

total                             55.5%

You take in account
How many the 44.5% left the country,
the demographic growth of the 55.55 in the 40 years of communism

Tan the 70% majority of the MSNP SZDSZ in the Parliament is a fact that

I do not believe that NATO needs an other leftist country

A. Albu
+ - Alapszerzodes (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

<<<<Felads :  [Italy]
Timakvr: Alapszerzodes ( 96 sor )
Idupont: Sat Sep  7 07:52:31 EDT 1996 FORUM #2106

Tisztelt FORUM!
        Szerencsesen megerkeztem Padovaba. Ez az elso hetvegem, igy most
tudok idot szakitani cikkirasra.
        Felszemmel, elutazas elott is probaltam kovetni a FORUM
esemenyeit. Elegge zavart, hogy sokaig eszrevetlen maradt az irogarda
elott az alapszerzodes problemaja. Koszonet Teleki Laszlonak, hogy
felrazta az iro-olvaso kozonseget es elinditotta a vitat. Ehhez
temakorhoz szeretnem most a magam meglatatasait hozzaadni.
        Semmikepen sem maradhatunk tetlenek. Muszaly tiltakoznunk. Mind
az egyeni mind a csoportos tiltakozasnak megvan a helye es szuksegessege.
Onodi Bertalannak az SCM-en kozzetett levelevel ertek egyett, amely
szerint a MEH-ez elkuldott ketmondatos tiltakozo e-mailnek is van ertelme.
A csoportos tiltakozas vonatkozasaban arra szeretnek ramutatni, hogy
ennel a formanal hasznos lenne, ha tiltakozason tulmenoen megoldasi
lehetoseget is sugallnank es valamely alakalmas modon igyekeznenk sulyt
is adni az akcionknak. Ez utobbirol eloszor nehany szo. Azonos tartalmu
nyilt levelet kellene eljutattni, mind Melescanu urhoz, mind a magyar
kulugyminiszterhez. Ha eleg nivosnak talajuk mondanivalonk, akkor
megkiserelhetjuk kozze tenni a Magyar Nemzetben is, azzal a meghagyassal,
hogy szabadon lehet utolag is csatlakozni az alairokhoz.
        Mirol szolhatna a level (szeretnem rogton elore bocsajtani, hogy
nem ragaszkodom a sajat gondolataimhoz, kozzetetelukkel csupan a level
megszuletesenk folyamatat szeretnem katalizalni):
        Ketseget kizarolag az alapszerzodes ebben a formaban (a
labjegyzettel) sem az erdelyi magyarsag sem a magyarorszagi magyarsag
egyetertesevel nem talalkozik. Veljuk, hogy a roman nemzet szamara sem
intezkedik minden szempontbol megnyugtatoan. Semmi ertelme olyan
szerzodesnek, amely a korabbi, szocialista idokben szuletett
szerzodesekhez hasonlo modon szonyeg ala sopri a problemakat es nem vesz
arrol tudomast, hogy a szerzodest egyik fel sem kivanja betartani, mert
az nem fejezi ki erdekeit.
        Valljuk es hisszuk, hogy van mod jo szerzodes kimunkalasara,
nemzeti kiegyezesre es megbekelesre. Leteznek vitalis kozos erdekeink,
amelyek kompromisszumok nelkul is osszekotnek. Mindket orszag XX. szazadi
multja es jelene megmutatta, hogy azonos modon vagyunk kiszolgaltatva a
nagyhatalmak politikai es gazdasagi erdekeinek. Letkerdes, hogy ne abban
a szellemben szulessek meg a szerzodes, mely szerint tudjuk, hogy a masik
fel nem ezt kivanta, de kulso erok bevonasaval majd rakenyszerithetjuk
        Megegyezni csak akkor tudunk, ha kolcsonosen elismerjuk egymas
nemzeti erdekeit es magunk javat nem a masik csorbitasa utjan keressuk.
        Szamunkra termeszetszeruleg elfogadhato a hatarok
megvaltozhatatlansaganak tetele, ha az abbol a felismeresebol fakad, hogy
lehetetlen az etnikai, valamint a kulonbozo korokbol szarmazo tortenelmi
hatarokat osszhangba hozni letezo, vagy atformalt hatarokkal. Ebbol
kovetkezik, hogy mindig is lesz minden nemzetnek olyan kisebb vagy
nagyobb resze, amely a hatarokon tul el. Addig nem nem merul fel a
hatarok megvaltoztatasanak igenye, amig letezo hatarok nem
akadalyozzak, hogy egy es oszthatalan nemzet legyunk.
        Nem ketseges, hogy ilyen viszonyok kialakitasa nem konnyu, de
Erdely sajatos etnikai osszetetele, es az kulonbozo nepek bekes
egyuttelesenek korabbi szazadokbol eredo hagyomanya, szuksegesse es
lehetsegesse teszi, hogy a ket orszag es a ket nemzet megkiserelje
veghezvinni a nehez de nemes feladatot, amely egyebkent sikere eseten
peldaul szolgalhat a tersegben.
        Minket nem zavar, es termeszetesnek tartjuk, hogy a roman nep
tortenelmenek sok fontos es meghatarozo esemenye Erdelyhez kotodik. Nem
egy kozuluk kozos ugyunk volt, hisz szamtalanszor kuzdottunk egymast
tamogatva a torok veszedelem ellen. Nem fogadthato el azonban szamunkra,
ha el akarjak tagadni a mi nemzetunk es tortenelmi egyahazaink
tortenelmet es szerepet Erdely multjabol. Jol tudjuk, hogy a modern
Romania megteremteseben az Erdellyel valo egyesules donto volt. De mi sem
tagadhatjuk meg - mert nem csak erkolcstelen lenne, de jovonket is
karosan befolyasolna, ha megfeledekeznenk arrol, hogy milyen meghatarozo
szerepe volt a magyar allamisag es a magyar kultura fennmaradasaban az
Erdelyi Fejedelemsegnek es Erdely magyarsaganak. Nem tartjuk azonban
szuksegesnek, hogy ki-ki a maga nemzetenk tortelmet akkent apolja, hogy a
masiket igyekszik nyirbalni.
        Ha a jovonket tekintjuk, ugy sok kellemetlensegtol ovhatjuk meg
magunkat, ha modot talalunk a kompromisszum mentes nemzeti megbkelesre.
Ellenkezo esetben viszalyunk kiszolgaltatotta fog tenni a kulonfele
hatalmak feleledo balkani vagy europai ambicioibol eredo konfliktusokban.
        A megegyezeshez viszont elengedhetelen feltetel, hogy Erdely
magyarsaga zavartalanul elhesse meg nemzetehez valo tartozasat, es ne
keruljon konfliktusba hazajaval sem. Szukseges, hogy a magyarok Erdelyben
- a sajat es oseik szulofoldjen - szabadon hasznalhassak nyelvuket, azon
tanulhassanak, az okatatas barmely szintjerol is legyen szo. Szabadon
elhessenek hituk szerint, amelyhez egyhazaik visszakaphassak a jogos es
szukseges intezmenyeket es epuleteket. Szukseges, hogy mindeme jogok
gyakorlasa ne masok jogainak csorbitasaval tortenjek, tovabba, hogy a
Romaniaban elo magyarsag trojai falova ne valhasson Romania szamara.
Nezetunk szerint, az hogy hogyan valosulhatna meg a magyar oktatas es
egyhazi elet helyreallitasa mar regota vilagos. A tovabbi magyar es roman
kozos gondolkodas inakabb arra kene iranyuljon, hogy mikent kerulheto el a
jogcsorbitas es a falo csapdaja.
        Tudjuk, hogy a politikusok lehetosegei ilyen kenyes kerdesekben
korlatozottak. Egy tul koran megadott engedmenyt inkorrekt partner
egyoldaluan alkalmazhat. A civilek parbeszede azonaban mentes az ilyen
buktatoktol. Fontosnak tartjuk ezert, hogy a rossz alapszerzodes helyett,
inkabb olyan dokumentum keruljon kidolgozasra, amely mindket nemzetben es
mindket orszagban konszenzuson alapul. Ehhez szelesiteni kell a
kidolgozasban resztvevo szervezetek koret es nagyobb nyilvanossagot kell
<kapjanak mindket orszagban a masik orszagban zajlo idevago vitak. Akar
<kozos vitafumok es TV-hidak sem lennenek haszon nelkul valok.

<Bathori Gyorgy
+ - A. Albu (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

S/he wrote:

>I do not believe that NATO needs an other leftist country

All those who care what A. Albu believes say I.

(I hope the lack if response will convince it to stop).

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: Alapszerzodes (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


On Sun, 8 Sep 1996, A. Albu wrote:
[long Hungarian language Forum article]
 Please note that the HUNGARY list is for English language discussions
(people interested in the Hungarian language ones can subcribe to those
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

Version: 2.6.2

+ - The traveling Pope (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

This is indeed a traveling Pope, who visited practically every corner
of this globe, except one. He never set foot on the birthplace of
Jesus, or celebrated mass at the Holy Sepulchre Church in Jerusalem.
He is obviously boycotting the State of Israel.
Can anyone explain this?

Alexander Szegedy
+ - Re: The traveling Pope (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Not a response to the question posed, just a quote from Reuters, describing
Michael Jackson's visit to Hungary:

Police said the crowd greeting Jackson was the largest they'd seen at the
airport for years. ``There were at least twice as many people here as for
the Pope,'' said
one policemen.

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: Collective Rights (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Would anyone care to have a thread on differences (advantages and
disadvantages or dangers) between individual rights and collective
rights?  That would seem more relevant and interesting than pursuing
further some of the recent stuff.

For those of us without the Fletcher Forum journal, is there any chance
of reposting the article here?

I think the question of how far collective rights can go without turning
into tribalism, fascism, etc in one direction or class warfare in another
direction, or the question of how far minorities can have collective
rights without encroaching on majority rights or upsetting the
established form of government, or any number of other such questions,
could be productive with or without reference to Hungarian minorities, or
minorities in Hungary.

First off, define collective?  And what can it mean in, e.g. a village on
the Danube that has say 51% Magyars or SLovaks and 40% of the other?  I
chose on the Danube as a location with an international aspect too, as a
waterway across Europe, an ecologically important area, etc

Any takers?

Norma Rudinsky

On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, Csaba Zoltani (ASHPC/CTD) wrote:

> Re: Liptak's Collective Rights Essay
> It is gratifying to see that Bela Liptak has read our recently published
> article in the Fletcher Forum of World Affairs on collective rights which
> we sent him. He has summarized our main points very well.
> The unedited copy is available as:
> Csaba K. Zoltani and Frank Koszorus, Jr. Group Rights Defuse Tensions.
> The Fletcher Forum of World Affairs, Vol. 20:2, Summer/Fall 1996.
+ - Re: Hungarhotels (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I'm afraid that Peter has the correct gist of things. Certainly in
Britain (a country without a written constitution and where the rules
are largely made up or discarded as suits the powers that be) the
question of conflicting parliamentary/business interests has become
a big issue. Tory fat cats are increasingly manipulating profits into
their own pockets by their ongoing wheelings and dealings, privatization
programmes, etc, of gas, electricity, water, nuclear power, transport,
prisons, post, broadcasting, etc, while downgrading and streamlining
those concerns in the name of efficiency. Many MPs and most members of
the government are on the boards of directors of usually several concerns
and the cases of highly suspect (and even what would be considered
clearly illegal in the US) dealings have reached epidemic proportions.
Fraud in British business and financial institutions has reached epidemic
proportions these days. Most local government infrastructures are riddled
with grass roots corruption and organized crime on a breathtaking scale.
My impression is that The Independent (best English broadsheet IMHO)
over the last few years has had more headlines and exposures of such
improprieties than all other matters put together. All this is going on
while Britain has reached a new low in standards of economic equality
(the national rich-poor divide, relative to the overall wealth of the
country, is now one of the worst in Europe, equal to third world Nigeria,
according to recent reports). I don't know where Hungary fits into this,
but do not these fundamental problems echo the current Hungarian situation
(as well as many other countries), somewhat?

It takes a very big upheaval indeed for populations to change anything
for real. People as a whole aren't going to vote to change anything,
even if they could, there is a sociopathic malaise that seems to make
people take everything lying down. This is understandable, up to a
point, not only for reasons of a generally low level of consciousness,
education and will, but also because the complexity of the labyrinthine
processes of the system is deliberately nurtured and used by the
socio-politico-judicial institutions to obstruct any real change;
every trick at bureaucratic stalling and legalistic obfuscation is
used by the dinosaurs to keep themselves in business. At the same time
people tend to swallow the propaganda of the dinosaurs hook, line and
sinker. The one notable political trend in Britain over the last few
decades has simply been the firm implementation of Thatcherism, espousing
personal greed for the few at the expense of the nation. So-called
democracy is powered by self-interest and most people's idea of
self-interest is not to lose what little they already have (not rock
the boat too much). Does any of this resemble the Hungarian situation?

Unfortunately, the only way the jailing of corrupt and greedy dinosaurs
will ever happen in Britain (and Hungary, I suspect) is if a benevolent
dictatorship enforced it (or, even less likely, the military and police
forces supported an enlightened peoples' movement into power to enforce
it). The dinosaurs would attempt to nip any such moves in the bud and it
would need a civil war, a cataclysm or a real upheaval of some kind to
oust them. Life is a bitch and then one dies! :-(

In article >,
>Charlie Vamossy said:
>...  Given the self serving laws passed by
>Parliament and upheld by that court, what chance would a foreign
>have in the lower commercial Courts?  ......
>Just so everyone outside Hungary is clear on the subject: In Hungary it
>is permissible and often done that members of Parliament and Government
>agnecies have conflicting desires. For example, it does not make sense for
>Hungary to permit the Minister of Telecom (etc. ) who proposes and
>executes the laws to be also a member of Parliament that passes the laws.
>That is clearly equivalent to having a Seantor or Congressman be also
>part of the Administration. Moreover, many Adminsitration types (officials)
>also have private and completely contradictory ownerships and interests in
>companies and projects that benefit them directly (or indirectly for
>those more discreet).
>How then can a businessman get a fair shake?? Talk about a level playing
>field!  Then they wonder why investment continues to slip???
>This ough to be rectified...by forcing clear conflict of interests in gov't
>against the law and putting these guys in jail where they belong! Maybe
>then some of the stealing of the wealth of Hungary will be reduced and
>getHungary to start moving forward again.
>Peter Soltesz

George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ARM Club * C=64..ICPUG * NW London CC
+ - Family History (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am researching my Hungarian heritage.  If you know anything about a
village named Varbo, please e-mail:

Thank you for your help.

Chris Martin
+ - Re: Hungarian Coat of Arms (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
    (lp) wrote:

I am interested in the various parts that make up the Coat or
Arms--the one from before World War I. Does anyone know if there are
internet or Web-based resources that might provide some background. We
have visited some of the Web-based museums and so far, have only found
a picture. Thanks for any suggestions.


Where did you find the picture? I'd like to download it.

+ - Re: Heidegger and Hungary Part 3 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 at Thu Sep  5 22:47:57 EDT 1996 HUNGARY #781:

>In article >, Ferenc Novak
> writes:
>>If anyone can understand what stowewrote above, please explain to me.
>>His foggy prose, coupled with a dash impertinence cannot hide the fact
>>he is, again, quoting out of context.
>I have to hand it to you, Frank. Your willingness to continue making a
>fool out of yourself is almost lemming-like in its intensity. Was that too
>foggy for you to understand? I can get it down to words of one or two
>syllables. It might make it easier for you to lip read as you go along.
>Sam Stowe

Sorry, you may think I am dense, but I still can't understand how
uncuth behavior can substitute for clear reasoning.  Your constant
rude personal attacks will only result in further defininig you as
a bore and an intellectual pauper.  Since you seem to take such
satisfaction in displaying the signs of your poor upbringing, you
may continue your simple-minded diversions; I will not stoop to answer
your insults.
+ - Re: Komondorok, Kuvaszok, es Pulik (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Andy Kozma wrote:
> >Mark Humphreys wrote:
> >
> >>This dog discussion is really informative. I agree with
> >>the above praise of Shitzus. A neighbor of mine is going
> >>to start raising them. They seem to need a lot
> >>of grooming, though.
> >
> >Mark,
> >
> >With all due respect, and a large nudge-nudge, wink-wink, what kind of a
> >#!*+$##@! god could have created a Shitzu?  Istenem!
> >
> >Joe Szalai
> >
> >Joe:don't you dare to say anytjing bad about Shitzu"s(grin).They are one of
> the sweetest companions as far as I am concerned.They are cross beetwen
> Penkingeese and Lhas-Apso's.Probaly inheriting the best of both.I am a dog
> lover and love all kinds of them.They are better then some human
> beings,since they have to be trained to fight or bite.There are no vars in
> the dog world.
> Regards:Andy.


This a new group. NEWSGROUP?????????????

+ - Re: Hungarian Coat of Arms (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Yes you are a BARON, now go and vote for the MSNP.
+ - Re: Komondorok, Kuvaszok, es Pulik (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

S or G Farkas wrote:
> At 11:37 AM 9/8/96 -0400, Andy wrote:
> >They are better then some human
> >beings,since they have to be trained to fight or bite.There are no vars in
> >the dog world.
> I always thought that (except for the sick ones) human beings are born good
> and then are educated into being beasts. Like dogs (no insult do dogs
> Gabor D. Farkas

O... yes.

Now, you, as a good farka,s go amd vote for the MNSP, and..
do not bark.
+ - Re: My 'Gutter language' (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
Mark Humphreys  > wrote:
>Hello Mike,

        [...thought-provoking response clipped for brevity...]

>- Gutter Mouth?

        Hello, Mark,
Just a quick public not to let you know your response is duly noted
however rather than getting myself into your guy's whole thread,
which is what I didn't want to have happen.  I'll state my case again:
the language in this group has hit an all-time low and I do agree with
this point made in the original post.  Although, Mark you go to great
lengths to "clue me in" as to what the thread was pertaining to before
I hopped on board, the thread's header did read:

        gutter language, and not
        gutter language (WAS: such and such and so and so)

...so that if you are looking for some response from me as to your
personal use of language, sorry, I simply could not care less
about how the original poster speaks to the point about *-YOUR-*
language in particular.  How ever what is important is what *-IS-*
at issue and the only thing *-I-* ever wanted to comment about and
that was: generally speaking, the language has hit an all time low
in this group.

        I've been a lurker since between Halloween and Thanks-
giving of 1991, long before this whole internet thing took off and
almost the same day ventured into S.c.m. and have met a lot of nice
people, exchanged pogaca recipes, and even posted a couple of times
        As most long-standing participants of s.c.m. know if they
remember me, and if they are still out there, I do not flame bait,
I do not instigate public arguments with other posters, and I cer-
tainly do not get my kicks out of telling other individuals on an
individual basis publically how to live their lives on here....
Nor am I saying you or Joe are...  What I am affirming herein is
the fact that I wouldn't post and would remain lurking until such
time I thought I had something to contribute. Whether or not you
think I had anything worthwhile to add or not is not my concern.

        I am in this for the information, as a hobby, as are most,
and to read interesting articles herein.  This ceased to be interesting
for me when I was jumped upon for stating my opnion and that was:
the language used in posts in this newsgroup has hit an all-time
low.  Plain, simple, succinct, and right to the point.  At least
this is what I thought I was agreeing with when I posted.  Turns out
there was a lot more to that post & thread than I realized.....

        Anything else relating to what the post WAS or what you
and Joe want it to become simply does not interest me.  Homo-
sexuals, heterosexuals, or any other topic, alright?  I simply
don't care who said what to whom - I just would like my newsgroup
back, and by the response I've gotten, I am not the only one who
thinks the language and pettiness had better stop soon.  If you
want to alienate people from people from contributing to this
newsgroup, go ahead, sir, but first measure them right when you
judge them, and read what they wrote not what is between the lines.

Have a nice day.
Mike.  :)

+ - Re: Langos (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  says...
>Can somebody out there give me a really good recipe for langos? For
those who
>don't know langos... find out about it! It's way yummy!
>                                The Gardener

The easiest way to make langos is to buy some fresh pizza dough and fry
it in plenty of hot oil until golden brown.(do not deep fry!)

+ - Re: My 'Gutter language' (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
Mark Humphreys  > wrote:
>Hello Mike,

        [...clipped for brevity...]

>I did not only use opinions, opinions and opinions.

        In my post, I didn't say YOU were. I was trying to dissect
the paragraph that everyone seems to be so hung up about.  I saw
in it a plea for watching out tongues on-line, the next poster saw
this guy's labeling the gays on here as militant as more inportant
than the subject that was mostly on his mind in that post: language.

        Just as I'm sure there was more to your post, Mark where
you called God a f-fej, and now you're shocked that people got sooo
hung up an that?  I don't get it?

        Language on this newsgroup is what was important there and
not anything else, and I appreciate your trying to intervene but
it's STILL not addressing the point of *-THAT-* particular post.

Did I wish ya' a nice day?  :)
Mike.  :)