The Hungarian Catholic community of Washington DC and Area will hold its 
Remebrance Mass on Sunday, October 15th at 1:30pm.

St. Dominic's Church
630 E Street, S.W.
 
--
mailto:

On 8 Oct 1995, T. Kocsis wrote:

> In article > , 
> writes:
> >Az Angi Tomitol fuggetlenul tovabbra is fenntartom, hogy oriasi
> >kulonbseg van a mi es o oldaluk kozott, mivel szemelyes
> >serteseket a Tomi erkezeseig nem lattam a magyar vitazoktol.
> 
> Nagyon udvarias vagy Joe.
> 
> A bunkosag, a pitianer szemetkedes ilyen mely szintjere valo
> leereszkedesre, mind azt Tom Angi teszi  az emlekeim szerint
> huzamosabb ideig me'g senki nem vetemedett  a csoportunkban.
> Az "SCM" kezdetu levelek par nap alatt tokeletesen balkanizal-
> tak a soc.culture.magyart.

Egy tenyer ha csattan. Nem akarom Tom Angit megvedeni, csak annyit - uj a 
csoportban. Talan ha emlekeztek, nagyon sokan a nepies oldalon kezdtek. 
Ha a csoportban mindenki intelligens ember modjara viselkedett volna, 
beleertve kedves roman baratainkat is, nem fajult volna el idaig a 
dolog. Azt hiszem mar tuleltunk egy-ket hasonlo dolgot a Useneten.  
Ha Tomi egy-ket nap szunetet tesz es rajon hogyan tegye tul magat az 
eddig szamara valoszinuleg ismeretlen szemelyes attrocitasokon, ismet 
varhatunk tole higgadt, baratsagos es ertelmes hozzaszolasokat ahogy 
ezelott tette. A jovoben, ha ugy erzitek valakivel elszalad a szeker, egy 
pozitiv hangu szemelyes figyelmezteto level valoszinuleg tobbet 
hasznal mint egy nyilvanos felhordules utolag. Fatylat ra. 
Udvozlettel, 
Gotthard

--
mailto:
http://mineral.umd.edu/~gotthard/

Los Angeles Hungarian Dance Parties

October 14, 1995
November 11, 1995


Gypsy Camp
3265 Motor Ave.   
Los Angeles, CA.

Teaching  7:30- 9:00

Tanchaz   9:00-12:00

Live music: November 11    
cost- $8.00


No partners needed
Beginners welcome

More info: Debbie Rand (310) 202-9024
                       e-mail 

To:   Scholars interested in East-Central and Eastern Europe and the 
      former Soviet Union
From: Patt Leonard, Managing Editor of ABSEES
Re:   new address for ABSEES Online: carousel.lis.uiuc.edu

Some of you are familiar with the American Bibliography of Slavic and 
East European Studies (ABSEES) and its electronic version, ABSEES Online.

ABSEES is published under the auspices of the American Association for the
Advancement of Slavic Studies, and has appeared in annual printed editions
since 1957.  ABSEES includes citations for books, book chapters, book
reviews, journal articles, dissertations, etc., that are published in
North America.  When the compilation of the Bibliography came here, to the
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, in 1991, ABSEES Online was
created, and it contains the citations from the late 1980s to the present. 

ABSEES Online has been available, at no cost to the users, from our host
computer (alexia.lis.uiuc.edu or 127.174.4.10).  It is possible to make a 
telnet connection to alexia.lis.uiuc.edu, and log on as "absees" 
with the password "slavibib":

            telnet alexia.lis.uiuc.edu
            login: absees
            Password: slavibib

Our database has been moved to a new computer, carousel.lis.uiuc.edu.  
Logins should be easier and response time faster.  When connecting to 
carousel.lis.uiuc.edu, it is no longer necessary to type a password--
simply log on as "absees"

            telnet carousel.lis.uiuc.edu
            login: absees


If for some reason you cannot make a direct telnet connect to ABSEES 
Online, you may send your query to me, and I can search the database and 
send a copy of the results to you via e-mail.

The ABSEES Online interface allows users to make comments at the end of
their search sessions.  Please take a moment to let us know what you think
of our database.  We appreciate your feedback, because we are always
looking for ways to improve our service.  Thank you! 


                                        Patt Leonard
Managing Editor
American Bibliography of Slavic and East European Studies (ABSEES)
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

personal e-mail: 
business e-mail: 

In article >
Gotthard Saghi-Szabo,  writes:
>Egy tenyer ha csattan. Nem akarom Tom Angit megvedeni, csak annyit - uj a 
>csoportban. Talan ha emlekeztek, nagyon sokan a nepies oldalon kezdtek. 

Ok, durva voltam. (De mar masodszor szoltam. )

>Ha a csoportban mindenki intelligens ember modjara viselkedett volna, 
>beleertve kedves roman baratainkat is, nem fajult volna el idaig a 
>dolog.

Nekem az a tapasztalatom, hogy a romanoknak mindig van ket-harom
Tom Angijuk talonban, ezert csupan rajtunk, magyarokon all, hogy euro-
pai vagy balkani normak szerint vezetett vita alakul-e ki.

>Ha Tomi egy-ket nap szunetet tesz es rajon hogyan tegye tul magat az 
>eddig szamara valoszinuleg ismeretlen szemelyes attrocitasokon, ismet 
>varhatunk tole higgadt, baratsagos es ertelmes hozzaszolasokat ahogy 
>ezelott tette. 

Ugy legyen. 

Tamas

Hi!

We are Canadians of Hungarian origin. 

We are thinking about adopting a Hungarian orphan, a girl
between 8-10 years old.

If there is anyone out there who has done this, or knows of the
procedure to follow please E-mail us at:  

Any info is much appreciated.

Thanks,

A.M.

5 ) wrote:

: Could you list the (or some of the) state-sponsored (that is not church-spons
ored)
: Hungarian-language schools in Transylvania before 1919? I'd also prefer you t
o
: restrict the list, in case it becomes too large ;-), to those of great tradit
ion,
: the ones we are proud of, are part of our culture & history and which we'd li
ke
: to keep so that we may turn back again and again towards the end of May after
 10,
: 20, 30, ... years as we promised at our graduation (Gaudeamus igitur...)

	Hi Matyas:

	My point is that ALL state-sponsored high schools in Transylvania 
were Hungarian-language (whether individual schools were great or not, I 
will leave to others to determin) before 1919.  There were exactly three 
Romanian-language high schools.  Each one of them - without exception - 
was denominational.

	I do not advocate doing unto the Hungarians as the Hungarians did 
unto us.  My reasons for this vary from the purely Christian, namely 
"turn the other cheek", to the pragmatic: if we keep "doing unto others 
before they do unto us", reconciliation is impossible.  But, when 
Hungarians demand educational rights today, I do believe that an 
acknowledgement that what happened last century was wrong would help.  
After all, if forced Magyarization was O.K. then, then why isn't forced 
Romanianization O.K. now?

	As an aside, I also think that an acknowledgement that 1867-1919 
was not an era of unadulterated Hungarian glorry is in the interest of 
the Hungarians as a whole, and of the varrious Hungarian minorities.  The 
neighboring peoples have already come to that conclussion.  Significant 
Hungarian populations live among them.  Reconciliation can only help 
those hungarian minorities develop a modus vivendi with the ethnic 
majorities.  While all sides win in ethnic peace, the weaker group wins 
disproportionately.

	Alexander

Steve Kovasznai > wrote:
>Valaki vilagositson mar fel, hogy miert van ennyi roman a 
>soc.culture.magyar newsgroup-on? 
>kosz. 
>kovi

Es ez miert baj?
Peter

In article >, Nagy Peter > wrote:
>SZALON letrehozasahoz, hanem a FORUM ellehetetlenult viszonyai, ugymint
>anyazas, bolsizas, nepnemzeti-kutyazas, szardobalas, stb. - mindket fel
>reszerol.  Mintha felderenge nekem abbol az idobol a "CSEPPSZ"
>fogalma...
>

A CSEPPSZ nem egy fogalom, hanem 5 nev kezdobetujenek osszevonasa.
Ugyanolyan alapon masik 5 nevet is osszelehetett volna vonni, s akkor mi
van?

Egyebkent fuggetlenul attol, hogy hogyan akarod karakterizalni az akkori
idoket, a teny az, hogy az egesz a Zetenyi-Takacs torvenyjavaslat
feletti vitabol alakult ki.

P.J.
(az egyik P a CSEPPSZbol)

In article > Kadar
Gyorgy,  writes:
>	Ma reggel hallom a radioban, hogy nehany magyar kereskedelmi bank 
>tozsdei manipulacioi miatt valoszinuleg kenyergabona behozatalra fogunk 
>szorulni, es nem zarhato ki tavaszra a kenyer 100 Ft-os kilonkenti ara 
>(ebben a csomagolasban sajnos ezt akar biztosra is vehetjuk)


Ezt nagyon nem ertem. Tozsdei muveletben eladtak (vilagpiaci aron)
egy csomo buzat kulfoldre. Na es akkor mi van ? Legfeljebb majd
vilagpiaci aron visszavasarolnak, ha elfogy az otthoni keszlet. Ezen
par szazalekot lehet csak bukni, es  asse biztos, mert lehet, hogy a
most eladott buza ara mashol tobbet fiall annal, mintha telen lett
volna piacra dobva.

A tenyleges gondot persze nem ez jelenti, hanem az, hogy a parasztok
eladtak a jovoevi vetomagot is, mert ojjan kurva jo ara volt a buzanak.

A kenyer ara *nem* azert lesz 100 forint, mert nincs itthoni keszlet,
hanem:
1. rossz termes volt vilagszerte, draga a buza mindenhol
2. a kenyer aranak torerdeket kepezi a buza ara.  A kenyer a kereske-
delmi arrestol meg a pofatlan haszonkulcsoktol draga.  Csak erdekes-
seggkeppen: 1 kilo buza kereskedelmi ara kb.16 dollarcent (Chicago,
januar).
3. Importmanipulaciok reven. Nem szabadaras termekkent hozzak be,
-pedig megtehetnek, hiszen $$$-ert adtak el- hanem kvota, arkuszob
meg egyebek lesznek, amelyeket annak fuggvenyeben alllapit meg a
miniszterium, hogy az ugyintezonek mennyit csusztatnak a zsebebe.
Megsugom: nem az importor fog rosszul jarni. Gondolj a krumplira.

>	[Csehorszag]- a kulfoldit sem agyon nem ajnarozzak, sem ki nem
>akarjak  fosztani, a penzeert becsulettel kiszolgaljak

Nem ultel taxiba. Repuloter-belvaros vonalon elkernek akar 200 DM-et
is ha eleg bamba a keped, es nem beszelsz totul.

>	A Cseh Koztarsasag utolso negy-ot evben elindult piacgazdasagi 
>fejlodeset az ipari-iparos polgarsag iranyitja, akiknek a sajat orszaguk 
>es sajat  t e r m e l e s i  szandekuk erdekei mindenkor elobbre valok, 
>mint holmi nemzetkozi kooperaciok

Mindenki kistulajdonos abban az orszagban. (Kuponos privatizacio)
Ez az oka az eltero viselkedesnek, nem a hipotetikus polgarsag nagy-
saga. (mi a polgarsag otven ev kommunizmus utan ? Milyen tartalmat
hordoz a fogalom ?))

>	A Magyar Koztarsasag utolso negy-ot evben elindult piacgazdasagi 
>fejlodeset a banki-penzugyes (es media-) polgarsag iranyitja, akiknek a 
>sajat orszaguk termelesi erdekeinel mindenkor elobbre valok a sajat 
>kereskedelmi, penzugyi es nemzetkozi kooperacios (es nepszabosagi, 
>nephulyitesi) erdekeik. 

Ojjan kurvak dirigalnak, akiknek a stricijei kulfoldiek. Ez a baj. A kurva
olcso joszag,  a strici kerul nekunk sokba. Ne azt nezd, hogy mit fizetsz
kurvanak, hanem azt, hogy abbol mennyit kap (vesz el) a strici.

>	Delamerika? es/vagy? Weimar?

Nem hiszem, hogy politikai kovetkeztetesre kellene jutni egy gazdasagi
eszmefuttatas vegen. Nem hiszem, hogy a fenntiekbol a diktatura kovet-
kezik. A delamerikai gazdasagi egyenlotlensegek kialakulasa viszont
nem lekepzelhetetlen.

Tamas

To raise funds for next year's commemoration of the 1,110th anniversary 
of Hungary's Homesteading, the Hungarian Catholic Community of 
Washington, D.C. and Area cordially invites you and your friends to a :

"Taste of Hungary"
Fundraising Dinner
Sunday, October 29, 1995
5pm-8pm

Embassy of the Republic of Hungary
2950 Spring of Freedom Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20008

dinner: $25/person, $10 tax deductible under IRS Code 501(c)(3)

R.S.V.P. by October 25th:
Hungarian Catholic Community of Washington, D.C. and Area
6529 Elder Avenue, Springfield, VA 22150, USA
Fax: (703) 971-1628

--
mailto:
http://mineral.umd.edu/~gotthard/

"Hungarian Pronunciation Tutor" has moved to a new URL:

http://homepage.interaccess.com/~jas/hungarian_pronunciation.html

Please stop by and have a look around.

I'm trying to communicate with a business in Budapest.  The
organization is identified as "Interconsult AG."

I've sent several letters to them, but I've yet to see a
response.  (I'd sent them my CV, as they were looking for
someone -- a couple of yuears ago -- who had my experience.)

Interconsult AG is the ONLY European organization which has
failed to reply to my expressions of interest in employment.  I
presume that I have an incorrect address.

Is there someone there who can obtain a current and correct
address for Interconsult?

Koszonom.

-- 
---------------------------|------------------------------------------------
Michael B. Holt            | As experience teaches, the subconscious almost
Richmond, Virginia         | automatically weighs the odds.
U.S.A.                     |       -- Adm E. B. Fluckey
---------------------------|-------------------------------------------------

In article >,  (Alexander Bossy) writes:
|> 5 ) wrote:
|> 
|> : Could you list the (or some of the) state-sponsored (that is not church-sp
onsored)
|> : Hungarian-language schools in Transylvania before 1919? I'd also prefer yo
u to
|> : restrict the list, in case it becomes too large ;-), to those of great tra
dition,
|> : the ones we are proud of, are part of our culture & history and which we'd
 like
|> : to keep so that we may turn back again and again towards the end of May af
ter 10,
|> : 20, 30, ... years as we promised at our graduation (Gaudeamus igitur...)
|> 
|> 	Hi Matyas:
|> 
|> 	My point is that ALL state-sponsored high schools in Transylvania 
|> were Hungarian-language

All right, let me make it more simple: Name one Hungarian-language high school
in the pre 1919 Transylvania supported by the state (i.e. not denominational).
I didn't want a general answer of the kind you gave, but a supporting evidence 
for
your previous statement. I have the feelin that your above statement is a s tru
e
as saying that all the Hungarian-language universities in Romania are sponsored
by the state (true because 'all' means none if there is none ;-))

 (whether individual schools were great or not, I 
|> will leave to others to determin)

.... this only shows how little you know about something (i.e. Transylvania) th
at
you claim is "your".

 before 1919.  There were exactly three 
|> Romanian-language high schools.  Each one of them - without exception - 
|> was denominational.

And they were let to function by the nasty Hunagrians. However your pragmatism
below:

|> 
|> 	I do not advocate doing unto the Hungarians as the Hungarians did 
|> unto us.  My reasons for this vary from the purely Christian, namely 
|> "turn the other cheek", to the pragmatic: if we keep "doing unto others 
|> before they do unto us", reconciliation is impossible. 

explains why Hungarian-language high schools shouldn't be allowed to function i
n
Transylvanie, i.e. not to do to others what they did to you...


 But, when 
|> Hungarians demand educational rights today, I do believe that an 
|> acknowledgement that what happened last century was wrong would help.  

What do these two have to do with one another? I believe in those educational (
and
not only) rights, however I don't think I have to acknowledge anything or to
apologize for anything more than any Romanian in the street should apologize
to me for the deeds of Romanians. On the other hand I don't care what Hungary,
the Hungarian guvernment does or declares - that's mostly just politics. I don'
t
even care whether they sign that treaty: that wouldn't change anything in the
situation of the Hungarians in Transylvania. Even then we shall want those righ
ts
and will go on fighting for them because we believe in the rightfulness of our
cause.

|> After all, if forced Magyarization was O.K. then, then why isn't forced 
|> Romanianization O.K. now?
|> 

Another nice example of your pragmatism, or just a counterexample?

|> 	As an aside, I also think that an acknowledgement that 1867-1919 
|> was not an era of unadulterated Hungarian glorry is in the interest of 
|> the Hungarians as a whole, and of the varrious Hungarian minorities.

Anyway, none of the times I remember were of any kind of glory for Romania
in general and concerning minorities in particular. And this is more recent,
but nobody thinks about acknowledging it. ... OK, I know that ever since 
Ceausescu we have been 5% above the universal level of development in every 
area, including human and minority rights (we still seem to be :-( )

  The 
|> neighboring peoples have already come to that conclussion.  Significant 
|> Hungarian populations live among them.  Reconciliation can only help 
|> those hungarian minorities develop a modus vivendi with the ethnic 
|> majorities.  While all sides win in ethnic peace, the weaker group wins 
|> disproportionately.

These sound nice, but what do you want to say?

|> 
|> 	Alexander

Matyas
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In >  (5 ) writes:

>In article >,  (Dan Pop) writes:
>|> In >  (Kriza Gyorgy) wr
ites:
>|> 
>|> >In article >,  says...
>|> >
>|> >>Nice try.  Most people bearing those names come from Romanian families
>|> >                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> >>with a Hungarian ancestor, not from Hungarian families.  I have a friend,
>|> >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> >>Doru Chis, who is a very good example (he can't even tell who was the
>|> >>Hungarian ancestor in his family).
>|> >
>|> >This is exactly what is called a "Romanianized" family, is not it?
>|> 
>|> I'm afraid I don't get it.  A family with a single, remote, Hungarian
>|> ancestor is a Romanian family, not a "Romanianized" family.  If that
>|> ancestor happened to be a grand-grandfather, my friend would be 12.5%
>|> Hungarian.  But I guess this is considerably more important than the 87.5%
>|> of non-Hungarian origin :-)
>
>Bad guess, the most important is what you consider yourself and how yoy feel
>about it - this is not a matter of percentages. Fact is that at a certain poin
t
>(actually several points) in time it was advantageous, sometimes even question
 of
>to starve or survive, to become a Romanian even in the in the pre- 1919 
>Transylvania. 

Care to give some concrete examples from pre-1919 Transylvania?
This is a brand new (at least for me) theory, suggesting that the
Romanian majority in pre-1919 Transylvania might have Hungarian origins
and not Daco-Roman (or Slavic or whatever) origins :-)

>Many did it. And most of those, as well as their descendants denied
>that they had ever been Hungarians. Within a few generation nobody in the fami
ly 
>would know the truth. 

Considering the number of Romanian citizens who declare themselves 
Hungarians (and have voted with HDRU), you described some isolated cases,
not a typical situation.  The Hungarian population of Romania has been
constantly growing since 1918.  Could you say the same thing for the
Romanian population of Hungary?

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

5 ) wrote:
: In article >,  (Alexander Bossy) write
s:

: |> 	My point is that ALL state-sponsored high schools in Transylvania 
: |> were Hungarian-language

: All right, let me make it more simple: Name one Hungarian-language high schoo
l
: in the pre 1919 Transylvania supported by the state (i.e. not denominational)
.
: I didn't want a general answer of the kind you gave, but a supporting evidenc
e for
: your previous statement. I have the feelin that your above statement is a s t
rue
: as saying that all the Hungarian-language universities in Romania are sponsor
ed
: by the state (true because 'all' means none if there is none ;-))

	Hi Matyas:

	I got my information about schooling in pre-1919 Transylvania 
from Macartney.  Since he is a respected historian (with a generally 
pro-Hungarian slant) I do not think that he is massaging the data to make 
Hungary look worse than she was.  He does not supply the names of 
individual schools.  Let me quote one paragraph that expresses his views 
of the educational system after 1867:

	"It is worth mentioning that all these Roumanian High schools 
were theological academies.  All the Roumanian schools, without 
exception, were denominational.  When a State school was founded in a 
minority district, it was always purely Magyar."

: And they were let to function by the nasty Hunagrians.

	The Hungarian government had some nasty policies.  That does not 
make the Hungarians nasty.  Likewise, the present Romanian government has 
sone nasty policies.  That does not make Romanians nasty.

: |> 	I do not advocate doing unto the Hungarians as the Hungarians did 
: |> unto us.  My reasons for this vary from the purely Christian, namely 
: |> "turn the other cheek", to the pragmatic: if we keep "doing unto others 
: |> before they do unto us", reconciliation is impossible. 

: explains why Hungarian-language high schools shouldn't be allowed to function
 in
: Transylvanie, i.e. not to do to others what they did to you...

	Quite the reverse.  Hungarian-language schools should be allowed 
to function.  Not only that, but the Romanian state should support enough 
Hungarian-language schools to fill the demand for them.  And that demand 
should be determined by parents (and older students), not by the state.

:  But, when 
: |> Hungarians demand educational rights today, I do believe that an 
: |> acknowledgement that what happened last century was wrong would help.  

: What do these two have to do with one another?

	Because history remains very much alive not only in the Balkans, 
but also in neighboring regions, like Transylvania.  To pretend that ethnic 
Romanians have, or will soon, forget what they see as "Hungarian 
oppression" is shortsighted.  A better approach is to acknowledge the 
wrong that happened last century, and make sure that similar wrongs do 
not happen - or continue to happen - today.

: I believe in those educational (and
: not only) rights, however I don't think I have to acknowledge anything or to
: apologize for anything more than any Romanian in the street should apologize
: to me for the deeds of Romanians.

	Since I doubt that you were involved in the Magyarization 
policies of the turn of the century, there is no need for you to 
apologize.  What I am interested in developing as an ability for people 
from both ethnic groups to acknowledge the wrongs that were commited on 
the other side.  Failure to bridge that gap means that ethnic tensions 
cannot be relieved.

: On the other hand I don't care what Hungary,
: the Hungarian guvernment does or declares - that's mostly just politics.

	Politics can exacerbate tensions. It matters - just consider the 
Hungarian reaction to the asinine things that the Romanian government is 
doing with foreign flags.  I'm sure that you do care about that one.

: I don't
: even care whether they sign that treaty: that wouldn't change anything in the
: situation of the Hungarians in Transylvania.

	You are looking at it in reverse.  The Hungarian and Romanian 
governments will both sign the treaty - but only WHEN things change for 
Romania's Hungarian minority.

: Even then we shall want those rights
: and will go on fighting for them because we believe in the rightfulness of ou
r
: cause.

	If you beleive in something should struggle for it.  Since most 
of the issues now are really questions of how much power the state should 
have to coerce people to do what it wants, I support you.  A civil 
society is impossible without individual autonomy - and I can immagin no 
autonomy that is more central than the right to free expression - in 
whatever language that you choose to express yourself in.

: |> After all, if forced Magyarization was O.K. then, then why isn't forced 
: |> Romanianization O.K. now?

: Another nice example of your pragmatism, or just a counterexample?

	Basic human rights have to be universal.  If forcing Romanians to 
send their children to Hungarian-language schools before 1919 was morally 
acceptable, then forcing Hungarians to send their children to 
Romanian-language schools today is morally acceptable.  If forcing 
Hungarians to send their children to Romanian-language schools today is 
wrong (and it is), then forcing Romanians to send their children to 
Hungarian-langauge schools before 1919 was wrong (and it was).  Call it 
pragmatism or a counterexample if you will; I shall call it basic morality.

: |> 	As an aside, I also think that an acknowledgement that 1867-1919 
: |> was not an era of unadulterated Hungarian glorry is in the interest of 
: |> the Hungarians as a whole, and of the varrious Hungarian minorities.

: Anyway, none of the times I remember were of any kind of glory for Romania
: in general and concerning minorities in particular.

	Unfortunately all to true.  :-(

: And this is more recent,
: but nobody thinks about acknowledging it. ...

	I just did, and this isn't the first time.

: OK, I know that ever since 
: Ceausescu we have been 5% above the universal level of development in every 
: area, including human and minority rights (we still seem to be :-( )

	There is still a lot of room for improvement - and the present 
government doesn't seem very inclined to do so.  But, the grip of 
totalitarian government has been broken, and the grip of the present 
authoritarian governemnt will break as economic reform proceeds.  When a 
truely democratic government takes over, it will have more important 
things to worry about than sparking ethnic tensions to keep the 
population from thinking about how little freedom they have, and how poor 
they remain.

:   The 
: |> neighboring peoples have already come to that conclussion.  Significant 
: |> Hungarian populations live among them.  Reconciliation can only help 
: |> those hungarian minorities develop a modus vivendi with the ethnic 
: |> majorities.  While all sides win in ethnic peace, the weaker group wins 
: |> disproportionately.

: These sound nice, but what do you want to say?

	While all of Transylvania's (and Romania's) population will gain from 
ethnic peace - they can focus on economic and cultural development, the 
Hungarian minority will gain disproportionately.  After all, you will be 
able to name your soon what you want without some petty bureaucrat 
telling you that it isn't a Romanian name.  You will be able to fly any 
flag that you want.  You will be able to send you child to a 
Hungarian-language school to study whatever he wants.  These are all 
democratic rights that will benefit ethnic Hungarians much more than 
ethnic Romanians.  But, they are democratic rights, and everyone should 
enjoy them, regardless of ethnicity.

	Alexander

aggyisten!

	Ma reggel hallom a radioban, hogy nehany magyar kereskedelmi bank 
tozsdei manipulacioi miatt valoszinuleg kenyergabona behozatalra fogunk 
szorulni, es nem zarhato ki tavaszra a kenyer 100 Ft-os kilonkenti ara 
(ebben a csomagolasban sajnos ezt akar biztosra is vehetjuk)

	A mult heten Pragaban volt szerencsem tolteni nehany napot. 
Szetnezve a cseheknel, a kovetkezo kulonbsegek tuntek fel:
	- Praga belvarosaban (is) nagyon sok szep epuletet renovaltak, az 
utcakon, ettermekben estefele pezsgo elet folyik, es nem elsosorban 
kulfoldiek isszak a jobbnal-jobb soroket
	- a kertvarosi korzetekben nyoma sincs a Budapesten lathato 
ujgazdag kivagyisagnak, van nagyon sok uj, vagy ujonnan rendbehozott haz, 
de ezek stilusukban valami megnyugodott osszhangot (nem egyformasagot) 
sugallnak, a tajba simulnak, nem csiri-csare-orditoznak
	- az uj autok zome a VW kooperacioval mukodo Skoda gyar termeke
	- a kulfoldit sem agyon nem ajnarozzak, sem ki nem akarjak 
fosztani, a penzeert becsulettel kiszolgaljak

	Kovetkeztetes:
	A Cseh Koztarsasag utolso negy-ot evben elindult piacgazdasagi 
fejlodeset az ipari-iparos polgarsag iranyitja, akiknek a sajat orszaguk 
es sajat  t e r m e l e s i  szandekuk erdekei mindenkor elobbre valok, 
mint holmi nemzetkozi kooperaciok
	A Magyar Koztarsasag utolso negy-ot evben elindult piacgazdasagi 
fejlodeset a banki-penzugyes (es media-) polgarsag iranyitja, akiknek a 
sajat orszaguk termelesi erdekeinel mindenkor elobbre valok a sajat 
kereskedelmi, penzugyi es nemzetkozi kooperacios (es nepszabosagi, 
nephulyitesi) erdekeik. 
	A dolog termeszetenel fogva ez a magyar polgari reteg sokkal szukebb 
ugyan, mint az emlitett cseh polgari reteg, megis joval nagyobb hazai 
(privatizacios es egyeb beruhazasi ehseg miatt) es nemzetkozi (penzt es 
hirt sokkal konnyebb hatarokon at mozgatni, mint arut) befolyassal 
rendelkezett es rendelkezik. A kormanyokat es egyeb donteshozasra 
feljogositott  hazai testuleteket, miegymasokat kenye-kedve szerint tudta 
es tudja tancoltatni akar kivulrol akar bennfenteskent.
	Delamerika? es/vagy? Weimar?   ???

istenvelunk		kadargyorgy

Dear Newsreader,

     My name is Joseph Szadai and I am a chemical engineer in
Hungary. I graduated this June.

I would like to inquire if you have any information about Ph.D
courses in the USA or in Canada.

As I already wrote I graduated this June, and have a degree in
Chemical Engineering and Industrial Management.
Currently I am working at a plastic producing company which
is making polyethylene foams. It is a Japanese-Hungarian
company. I am applied as a technical developer. My work is to
create new technologies and doing a research in order to
produce polyethylene foams in better quality.

I am planning to take a Ph.D course especially in a country
where the official language is English. (USA, Canada, UK) not
only on the field I am working on now, but any other fields of
Chemistry.
Especially I am interested in analytical chemistry,
inorganic chemistry, oil refinery, quality assurance, chemistry
related or other computer using and software development.
I am very much interested in researches on these fields but
unfortunately the circumstances in Hungary don't allow many
students to work on different researches.

I made my BS thesis at the Analytical department, here at
Budapest Technical University. I developed and tested new
ionic selective membrans. Also I wrote a computer software
which evaluates my results.

My MS thesis is a major computer software which calculates
the critical points of vapor-liquid mixtures, based on the
excess free energy modell.

If you are interested I will send to you my resume.

Also I am interested - if there is any possibility of it -
to work on a research or on a development for a while and
start the Ph.D course later.

Ph.D Please let me know if you have any information, suggestion,
or if you know any appropriate persons who I could write to
concerning this matter.

Please E-mail me if you can help. Thank you.

    Sincerely,

                        Joseph Szadai

                    E-mail: , or
                            

I'd like to live in a country where I could proudly declare with 
Dr. Jeffrey Goldberg: 
I don't believe in "minority rights", I believe in individual rights
I don't believe in "majority rights", I believe in individual rights
I don't believe in "national rights", I believe in individual rights
I don't believe in "ethnical rights", I believe in individual rights

	Most probably in such a country I could:
	- persuade my neighbours to organize a school for teaching our 
children in our mother tongue that is Hungarian 
	- elect our representatives in the local administration even if 
he/she happens to be Hungarian
	- speak to the doctor, priest, policeman, clerks, etc. in my 
language if they happen to understand Hungarian
	- sing the national anthem of that little country: Hungary
	- fly a red-white-green tricolor flag any time
	- not be forced to take my wife to an obligatory medical 
examination every six months in order to book-keep her eventual pregnancy 
(Romania, 1980's)
	- not be forced to pray in a foreign language (Romania, 
tshango-Hungarians of the Bacau region)
	- not be afraid of speaking Hungarian in the streets
	- not be deprived of citizenship together with my neighbours just 
for happening to be Hungarian (Slovakia, late 1940's)
	Naturally, as a good citizen I would respect the laws of my 
country where the first official language (my second one) would happen to 
be non-Hungarian.

	Simple, isn't it? Just individual rights. Just normal life with 
usual decentralized administration and usual privacy.

	Unfortunately this is Central-Eastern Europe, where Hungarians: 
more than 1.6 million of Romania, still more than 350 000 in Serbia, 
more than half a million in Slovakia, 
altogether surely more than 3 million citizens in countries neighbouring 
Hungary are not allowed to practize such simple individual rights.
And unfortunately not only Hungarians...

	I'd like to remind us of the words written here by Mr. Bjelica 
(whom I would be glad to hug friendly): Serbia should be "decentralized 
and not directed through Milosevic's office"
	Not only Serbia. Decentralization and local autonomy. That's it.

	Dear Dr. Jeffrey Goldberg,
	I agree with you in principle, but look at the examples of former  
Yugoslavia, Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia. There were no other rights 
than individual  rights and rights of states. Then what was the way of 
trying to achieve equal rights against the will of the (centralizing) 
Center? (Who was wrong, who was right, it is a different discourse)
The only possibility was: trying to  f o r m  a  n e w  s t a t e, since 
international legislation would not recognize anything other than 
individual and  s t a t e l y  r i g h t s. No group rights, no minority 
rights, no national rights, no ethnical rights... 
	Unfortunately here in Central-Eastern Europe the Centers (should 
I really enlist them?) are still strong enough to deny equal rights from 
their loyal citizens who do not want to abandon their milleneum old own 
culture, who do not volunteer to dye culturally. I recognize, that 
reincarnation with the culture of neighbouring nations can be a consoling 
perpective. The problem is not nations, but Centers. And those Centers 
want forced assimilation and (any strong this expression sounds) cultural 
genocide.
	So far Hungarians of neighbouring countries wanted only normal 
individual rights, local autonomies based on individual rights and rights 
to cultural, economic and political development in their own way.
They never wanted to form a new state since 1920, but they wanted their 
group rights on the basis of individual rights. 
	It would be perhaps the task of scholars and politicians of 
traditionally democratic countries to think over,  w h e t h e r 
in traditionally non-democratic regions of the world, where still there 
exist strong Centers and where honest people  strive for the benefits of 
democracy, of market economy and of legal safety, 
w h e t h e r  in such countries individual rights and stately rights 
only, are they satisfactory means of transition to real democracy?
	I doubt...

	God bless us all...		Gy. Kadar