> I've rambled a bit Ms Durant, so let me reply to your main point:
>
> *  yes, our deficit is high, and we are trying to something about it.
>

- for the last - 15? years - and it has gone up...



> *  admittedly we are spening more time on creating wealth than
> distributing it...  but without wealth there ain't a whole lot to
> distribute.  I think we compare favorably to our ex enemy and the
> Marxist workers paradise of the ex-Soviet Union.
>
>

But immense wealth is produced and only a fraction is spent on
useful public services.

I am not the one lost in time, it's people, who think that
capitalism still able to renew itself, and are not looking for
new solutions.

Eva Durant

I pondered over the weekend - isn't it interesting,
that when Szucs aka etc has no answer when proven
to be absurd, calls Eva Balogh a liar.
When Stowe qoutes a story from a book, and proves to be
an ill-researched malicious piece, he resorts to calling
me a liar and all sorts of other things.
I can't help making the conclusion, that both of them
suffer from the same condition of unconditional hate
of everyone who argues agains some of their emotionally
overcharged beliefs.
I resolved not to respond anymore for this reason, however,
it bugs me if he goes on calling me all sorts without being
challenged. What shall I do? I don't want to contribute
to the personal irrelevant petty feuds. I like to argue
about ideas. I do my best not to hate anybody, even if I
detest their ideas.  I'm on this list to learn and to question,
and as such I found it useful over the years.

Eva Durant

My guess is, that the people who run the events and organise
the clubs are very old and conservative, not particularily
happy about anyone wanting to change/revive the organisations.
That's seem to be the problem here.

Eva Durant (The HUngarian Club here is great - if you want to prey
a lot, listen to gitch music or play snooker... we go down for
the latest...)

Eva Durant


>        My problem with all this is that  he seems to blame everybody
>     else for all this.  Why do you  want to make  others responsible
>     for catering to your needs? Others supposed to save your culture
>     and just give it to you? No my friend,you should make the effort
>     to do all this for yourself.It is true that it is very difficult
>     to preserve a minority culture,  but it is your duty to do it if
>     it is really important to you. Don't blame others if you are not
>     willing to do your part.  If you need the company of others then
>     find people with  the same need,  but don't expect  everybody to
>     have the same need.
>        I feel the same way Jeloko does. I am an American first,  but
>     I am very proud of my heritage. And I am preserving that culture
>     and everything that goes with it in my own way. I am not waiting
>     for others to do it for me. Yes,  I go for my  langos and leave,
>     but I go.
>        I hope you take this message in the spirit it was written, in
>     friendship.
>        Regards,
>                 Amos

At 03:31 PM 5/18/96 -0600, Csipkay Karoly, wrote:

>First of all let me apologize to those on whose toes I may have stepped. My
>hobby is writing, and I use a lot of metaphores, which are usually harsher
>than intended, especially whern I am angry, and, in tune with my age, I am
>usually angry.

I'm in tune with my age and I'm not angry.  Why should I be?  I embrace all
the challenges that life gives.  I give full and unconditional support to
all peoples who are trying to rid the world of prejudice and hate.  You seem
to wallow in it.  I suggest you spend some quality time with yourself and
learn, or else your metaphores will eat you alive.

>        1./ I did not mean that the history contributions are the only ones
>I read, or deem worth reading. But I did mean, that the eternal clashes on
>gayness don't really belong here, and are utterly boring.

Perhaps this newsgroup could be declared a 'fag free zone'.  Would that make
you happy?  By the way, you're boring.

>Like religion, gayness is not debatable.

Said who?  Don't be so cocksure of your ideas.

>The gays despise the straights, the straights despise the gays, and never
>the twain will meet.

So gay children despise their straight parents who in turn despise their gay
children.  Do you despise your lesbian great grandmother?  Do you despise
your gay uncle?  Would you despise your son or daughter if they were gay?

>It's not a Hungarian problem, it's global.

Well, at least you got this part right.  Homophobia is a global problem.
There are people like you everywhere.

>As far as I know, the net has some gay and lesbian lists, argue there, if
>you must.

No thanks!  I'll argue right here.  In your face!  Get used to it.  You will
never take comfort from our silence again.  Sexual apartheid will soon be
passe.  If you can't handle it, get professional help.  Homophobia can be cured
!

>        2./ Anti-semitism is another tiresome subject.

You seem to tire too easily.  Get a bottle of Geritol.  It will give your
sagging spirits a boost.  Besides, it's the only boost you'll get around here.

>        3./My metaphore "I wish that those who are not proud of their
>heritage would crawl into a hole and come out only for their payckecks" was
>not appropriately chosen, according to my wife.

Hey, man.  This is the HUNGARY list.  We talk about things Hungarian.  Why
do you feel that you have to bring your wife into it?  Why do you have to
tell us that you're a heterosexual?   Do you think your ideas are more
important because you're straight?

>It was one of my more angry utterances.

Your anger is consuming you.

>Any embarassed Hungarians who is financed by their government or nation's
>economy could forget that he or she had ever anything to do with Hungary
>and/or Hungariandom, should keep silent about his past and the only thing
>we, loyal Hungarians can expect them to do is not to heap disgrace upon our
>heads, but look at the rest of humanity with open eyes.

You've got a lot of nerve talking about looking at humanity with "open eyes".

>        Magyar vagyok, magyarnak szulettem, meg a sziv is magyarul ver >bennem
.

Oh, puleeease!!!

Joe Szalai

At 11:37 PM 5/16/96 -0400, Martha Bihari, wrote:

>Here is the newest twist: the French railway company has just agreed to
>give a family discount - 25 % off for both - to gay couples who travel on
>the same itinerary.  (They will be issued a pass with photos of both
>travellers.)
>
>Please don't ask me how the railways verify if they belong to each other;
>according to the news, they need to prove concubinage with a certificate.

Concubinal certificates are not necessary and they don't really prove
anything.  If I were a conductor on a train, I'd check the couple out
myself, and look for things like matching feather boas, toy French poodles,
and clothes that were not bought at Wal-mart.

By the way, Martha, if you discover any other "twists" to this story, I hope
that you'll share it with this newsgroup.

Joe Szalai

I am pleased to see Mr. Fencsik's true colour when he tries to glue
such a title as "Nazi scumbags".

It seems that I have touched a nerve. Instead of dealing with any
argumentative issue, he devotes his  time  of explaining  who or
rather what  I am to the members of Hungary.

The explanation is brief and groundless. Mr. Fencsik writes;

"Until now Mr. Nemenyi has confined his Goebbelsian gibberish to the
Hungarian discussion groups, and mercifully stayed  away  from  the
English language lists".

It is a stretch to credit me of any "Goebbelsian gibberish" if I was
the very one, who put the blame on Goebbels of using blood accusations
against the MASSES of innocent Jewish people.

Furthermore I never stated that the masses of people should suffer
for the guilt of the few. And I Do Not beleive in collective sin
and collective punishment.

If Mr. Fencsik can dig up any data proving otherwise, I will be
happy to conduct a debate on it.

And as far as my redeeming virtues go, before I settle any arguments
with name calling, I try to reason before.

I can not recall that Mr. Fencsik ever tried to push his views through
on the " Nazi scumbag infested freak show, the Forum", as Mr. Fencsik
calls it.  But you know...if you can not put up, then.....

If Mr. Fencsik thinks that the Forum needs a sober voice, I promise
that as long as he abstains from name calling, he would have the
luxury to explain his views without any hinderance.

He could explain to all the Nazi scumbags, why he tinks they are
Nazis and of course scumbags!
That would need the proof that of "those" affiliated to the old or
new Nazi parties.
Without the proof, of course Mr. Fencsik's accusation worth nothing
but fodder.

And as far as the translation of Mr. Farkas goes, I can only
thank him for it.

NPA.

In article >,
 says...
>
>much like to make two short excursions to Naples, Italy and Sofia,
>Bulgaria to visit friends.  Volan offers round trip bus service to both
>from Budapest for about $70.  I think $140 sounds like a nice price.
>However, I don't want to spend more than a week total out of Hungary.
>Using Volan, that would roughly give me four days to spend in both places
>with three devoted to traveling.
>    Does anyone know how I could shorten the travel time while keeping the
>cost within my budget (below $200, preferably way below 8-).  How do rail
>prices compare with the Volan quote?  Would it be possible to get to
>Bulgaria from Italy directly (or vice virsa) so that I wouldn't have to go
>back to Budapest?

Norb,

I envy you! Back in '82 I made the rail trip Budapest-Kolozsvar-Brasov-
Czikszereda-Bucharest-Sofia and onto Greece. It was fantastic and you'll
love the stunning natural beauty of the Bulgarian countryside! But this
return trip...are you sure, as an American passport holder, you want to
return through Serbian territory in Rump Yugoslavia/Srpska? It might be
wiser to go back via Romania and Hungary.

Regards,
--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 *** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list! Global service ***

I was wondering if any one knew any thing about art that is being produced
througout hungary today and in the recent past 10 years.  Any info would
be greatly appeciated due to the lack of articles and books in English
about the subject

Can someone please help me , I'm looking for the home-address
of the classical CDs label called  Hungaroton .(I'm looking after
the label address not a distributer)
Thanks in advance for any help , and please reply by email only .
--

While I would reccomend what has been suggested by others (go through
Romania and Bulgaria if at all possible), I did not have much problem in
Serbia. I had heard reports of problems like gassing of compartments,
train heists, but those have happened in Russia, Eastern Europe in
general. thus, they are not specific to Serbia. American passport should
not cause trouble because Serbian embassies give Americans visas for
FREE, but they should be gotten in advance. You couldn't get them at the
border. They will turn you away packing.

Darren Purcell

On May 20, 11:53am, DARREN E PURCELL wrote:
> American passport should
> not cause trouble because Serbian embassies give Americans visas for
> FREE, but they should be gotten in advance. You couldn't get them at the
> border. They will turn you away packing.
>
> Darren Purcell
>-- End of excerpt from DARREN E PURCELL

   Darren,

      When did all this happen? I was there in '92 and no visa was
   necessary with an American passport.

                                          Amos

Several respondents of this discussion group have questioned the
appropriateness of calling that 'bright and shining moment' in recent
Hungarian history, the events of October and November 1956, a fight for
freedom, a szabadsagharc. They got it wrong.

The immediate events which led up to October 1956 was a revolt within
Hungarian society against the party in power. The revulsion against the
party, whose legitimacy to rule has been questioned from the start since
it gained, and subsequently remained in power only because of the
presence of and on the insistence of an occupying military power, soon
enveloped the whole society. What began as a desire for reform,
developed into a revolution, a desire to throw off a usurping power
structure. With the Russian intervention, the revolution became a fight
for freedom, the classical szabadsagharc.

Parallels to 1848-49 are evident. Then too, desire for internal reforms
soon came up against a de facto colonial power which wanted to maintain the
status quo. When the attempt to throw out the foreign oppressor was met
with military force, the 'lawful revolution' became a szabadsagharc.

Sandor Taraszovics, an active participant in the szabadsagharc of 1956,
recalls that Bela Kiraly, commander of the National Guard, already in
1956 called the events "nemzeti demokratikus forradalom es
szabadsagharc" (a national democratic revolution and fight for freedom).

Kadar and his minions left no stone unturned to deny the legitimacy of
Hungary's fight for freedom or to suppress any expression of national
consciousness. At first they labeled '56 a CIA inspired
counter-revolution, a fascist plot, a criminal undertaking. Yet, time
marches on. In the waning days of the Kadar dictatorship, reality could
no longer be denied: '56 became a 'nemzeti felkeles' (national
uprising). Today, few can marshall cogent arguments against calling it
what it really was : a szabadsagharc.

CSABA K ZOLTANI

The visa requirement is something I only knew abut, after call to the
Yugoslavian embassy in Budapest. They said if I wanted to go there, I
needed a visa, but that they were free. Sorry, but I don't know when this
requirement came into force. So, to make a long story short, as well as
my advice, make sure you get the visa before you leave the US, or
Hungary.

Darren Purcell

I am pleased to see Mr. Fencsik's true color when he tries to glue
such a title as "Nazi scumbags".

It seems that I have touched a nerve. Instead of dealing with any
argumentative issue, he devotes his  time  of explaining  who or
rather what  I am to the members of Hungary.

The explanation is brief and groundless. Mr. Fencsik writes;

"Until now Mr. Nemenyi has confined his Goebbelsian gibberish to the
Hungarian discussion groups, and mercifully stayed  away  from  the
English language lists".

It is a stretch to credit me of any "Goebbelsian gibberish" if I was
the very one, who put the blame on Goebbels of using blood accusations
against the MASSES of innocent Jewish people.

Furthermore I never stated that the masses of people should suffer
for the guilt of the few. And I Do Not beleive in collective sin
and collective punishment.

If Mr. Fencsik can dig up any data proving otherwise, I will be
happy to conduct a debate on it.

And as far as my redeeming virtues go, before I settle any arguments
with name calling, I try to reason before.

I can not recall that Mr. Fencsik ever tried to push his views through
on the " Nazi scumbag infested freak show, the Forum", as Mr. Fencsik
calls it.  But you know...if you can not put up, then.....

If Mr. Fencsik thinks that the Forum needs a sober voice, I promise
that as long as he abstains from name calling, he would have the
luxury to explain his views without any hinderance.

He could explain to all the Nazi scumbags, why he tinks they are
Nazis and of course scumbags!
That would need the proof that of "those" affiliated to the old or
new Nazi parties.
Without the proof, of course Mr. Fencsik's accusation worth nothing
but fodder.

And as far as the translation of Mr. Farkas goes, I can only
thank him for it.

NPA.

Hi norb,
        While I very much doubt the link between Dubrovnik and Belgrade to exis
t
 , I
 might suggest perhaps that from Naples you take the train to Brindisi, cross b
y
 ferry to Igumenitsa on the coast of western Greece, and take a bus connection
 (there are plenty of
them) to Thessalonica, from where you will find an easy link by either bus or
 train to Sofia.
        If you are not looking for something very adventurous, this solution sh
o
 uld be
 satisfactory enough.
                                Best Wishes,
                                Panagiotis Antonopoulos

I have to thank,the most attaced person Eva Balogh  for her
understanding,what i realy ment about my heritage.
Karoly csipkai has his own priviledge to feel as he wishes to.So do I.At
least I live in a free country where I can say how I feel.I even cab
critsize our politicians and anybody else I wish.So it is also my priviledge
tp feel about my heritage as I wish.
I wrote this to this thread,without being ashamed,or to critisise
anyone,wxcept those people who still try to blame the jews for evrithing
wich is bad,at least in there opinion,but never did they do anything good in
Hungary.
I said what I felt.That's it,whoever feel different that is good for them.
Andy Kozma.
Ps.My paycheck has stopped comming for about 5 years now.I live like a King
on my pension.

>Joe:not that it mean anything to you,but I whole heartedly applaud you.To
see beetwen the lines,well that is something.Csipkay is better off to watch
out,that he started your anger at his writing.
I try to be quiet,but go Joe go.
Andy KozmaAt 03:31 PM 5/18/96 -0600, Csipkay Karoly, wrote:
>
>>First of all let me apologize to those on whose toes I may have stepped. My
>>hobby is writing, and I use a lot of metaphores, which are usually harsher
>>than intended, especially whern I am angry, and, in tune with my age, I am
>>usually angry.
>
>I'm in tune with my age and I'm not angry.  Why should I be?  I embrace all
>the challenges that life gives.  I give full and unconditional support to
>all peoples who are trying to rid the world of prejudice and hate.  You seem
>to wallow in it.  I suggest you spend some quality time with yourself and
>learn, or else your metaphores will eat you alive.
>
>>        1./ I did not mean that the history contributions are the only ones
>>I read, or deem worth reading. But I did mean, that the eternal clashes on
>>gayness don't really belong here, and are utterly boring.
>
>Perhaps this newsgroup could be declared a 'fag free zone'.  Would that make
>you happy?  By the way, you're boring.
>
>>Like religion, gayness is not debatable.
>
>Said who?  Don't be so cocksure of your ideas.
>
>>The gays despise the straights, the straights despise the gays, and never
>>the twain will meet.
>
>So gay children despise their straight parents who in turn despise their gay
>children.  Do you despise your lesbian great grandmother?  Do you despise
>your gay uncle?  Would you despise your son or daughter if they were gay?
>
>>It's not a Hungarian problem, it's global.
>
>Well, at least you got this part right.  Homophobia is a global problem.
>There are people like you everywhere.
>
>>As far as I know, the net has some gay and lesbian lists, argue there, if
>>you must.
>
>No thanks!  I'll argue right here.  In your face!  Get used to it.  You will
>never take comfort from our silence again.  Sexual apartheid will soon be
>passe.  If you can't handle it, get professional help.  Homophobia can be
cured!
>
>>        2./ Anti-semitism is another tiresome subject.
>
>You seem to tire too easily.  Get a bottle of Geritol.  It will give your
>sagging spirits a boost.  Besides, it's the only boost you'll get around here.
>
>>        3./My metaphore "I wish that those who are not proud of their
>>heritage would crawl into a hole and come out only for their payckecks" was
>>not appropriately chosen, according to my wife.
>
>Hey, man.  This is the HUNGARY list.  We talk about things Hungarian.  Why
>do you feel that you have to bring your wife into it?  Why do you have to
>tell us that you're a heterosexual?   Do you think your ideas are more
>important because you're straight?
>
>>It was one of my more angry utterances.
>
>Your anger is consuming you.
>
>>Any embarassed Hungarians who is financed by their government or nation's
>>economy could forget that he or she had ever anything to do with Hungary
>>and/or Hungariandom, should keep silent about his past and the only thing
>>we, loyal Hungarians can expect them to do is not to heap disgrace upon our
>>heads, but look at the rest of humanity with open eyes.
>
>You've got a lot of nerve talking about looking at humanity with "open eyes".
>
>>        Magyar vagyok, magyarnak szulettem, meg a sziv is magyarul ver
>bennem.
>
>Oh, puleeease!!!
>
>Joe Szalai
>
>

Dear fellow-listmembers,

some time ago there was a discussion on the list about a film called
"The Outpost."  This contribution to that discussion had difficulties
reaching us because the sender's address had been changed.  I forward
it to the list now, hoping that it will still be of interest.

Sincerely,

Hugh Agnew


> To: 
> Subject: RE: Hungarian film "The Outpost"
>
>
>> Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 23:18:20 -0800
>>   From:         Richard Alexander >
>>   Subject:      Hungarian film "The Outpost"
>>   In-Reply-To:  >
>>
>>    The Portland Film Festival is this week showing a Hungarian film
>> titled  "The Outpost."
>>
>>   Has anyone seen it?  Does anyone know anything about it?
>>
>>    The synopsis in the Festival program sounds dreary in the extreme.
>> Is it  worth standing in long lines to see?
>>
>>   Thanks.
>>
>>   Richard Alexander   )
>>
>>
>
> It's quite a good film actually. I saw it at the Rotterdam Film Festival
> in January, and liked it. It's storytelling and direction is quite
> straightforward, nothing much avant-garde about the movie, but the story
> of Gizella Weiss, the strong-willed but/and not yet disillusioned
> Hungarian Romanian woman in Ceausescu's Rumania, is recounted craftily,
> and captivatingly. There is something distinctly Kafkaesque in the short
> story as it was written by that well-known Transylvanian Hungarian (what
> was his name? Adam Bodor?) writer, and director Peter Gothar (also
> well-known: he made a very popular movie about a school and it's
> teenagers in the dark days of post-56 repression) succesfully translated
> it's atmosphere into images. The film's visual language reminded me of the
> old-style Eastern European art movies: moody and serious, but not
> inaccessible: it's main aim recreating the feel of daily life in communist
> Eastern Europe. Though the story came across as absurdist and
> incomprehensible to the Dutch viewers behind me it's not to anyone who
> knows about communism, I think. Though nothing much is said in the movie
> we can gather this: Gizelle Weiss, the life- and work-loving woman we
> meet as the movie begins, has a fairly good job, though nothing very
> special, lives alone but good-humouredly in the decrepit surroundings of
> poverty created by neglect, such as characterized Ceausescu's Romania.
> She works hard and conscientiously, and is pleasantly surprised when she
> hears she will be promoted: so they are finally going to realize the
> plans to make x and y work better, which she proposed. To the viewer at
> this time her fate can already be guessed at: a woman aspiring to change
> the set realities, who has big plans, and who naively thinks that her job
> as a state employee is to make life easier for the people, is in such
> political systems usually seen as a threat. The way these opening scenes
> are shot, the hasty way in which everybody congratulates her and sees her
> off, the mysterious car waiting to take her away, also set the atmosphere
> of what is to come.    Her fate is of course sad, as the post she is
> "promoted" to is both in real and in metaphorical sense, the end of the
> world, the very fringe of what can be called life. But though this
> metaphor, this idea of recounting the well-known story of Stalinist
> repression (though in the entire film not one political, explicit word is
> said! It's truth is all in metaphor and parable: in that sense to, it
> reminds one of the art movies of pre-89 times), is well-chosen, that's
> not the main pro of the film: after all - that's Bodor's work. It's all
> the details, all the little ways in which Gothar completes the picture.
> The behavior of busdrivers and local chiefs, the words and looks attached
> to them, this is the way Gothar created a visual language which so
> tightly fits the feel of the story that the viewer thinks he's added
> nothing new to what's in the story: and perhaps, to an old-fashioned
> cinematographic craftsman that's the biggest praise of all.
> I'd say, if you have any chance of seeing this film, go and do so: it's
> not a masterwork of Hungarian cinematography, I think Sopsits' The
> Shooting Parlor (if that's the correct translation), or, even far more
> so, Feher's Szurkulet (dots on the u's) are of greater artistic
> importance, but.. it's a craftily made, interesting and insightful film.
>
> Joost van Beek
> 
>

I certainly used the wrong word when I wrote "despise". I was thinking of
it in third person: them, the gays; them, the straights. In my mind,I was
not included, yet, obviously, since I am straight, I included myself in the
"them, the straights". Nothing is further from the truth; I have several
gay and lesbian friewnds, I definitely don't despise them,on the contrary.
I should have said, perhaps,  that they don't really understand each other.
I still don't think the theme is appropriate for the Hungary list.
As far as anti-semitism goes, my point is that people ought to be put on an
equal footing. Everybody suffered, and the more recent hurts are more
acute. It doesn't really matter who was where, when, why. Our own loss is
always the hardest to bear. I generally forgive everybody, but I can't
honestly say that by doing it I don't think of myself as being very, very
good.

Dear A.Kozma,

You can dislike Hungarians or even hate them, you do not have to be proud
to your heritage. That is your business. You can write a post about it
every day on this NG, because this a free group, nobody force anyone to
be in this NG or read anyone's post. However if you publicly announce your
opinion then you should not be surprised if somebody has an opposing one
or dislike yours.

J.Zsargo

On Mon, 20 May 1996, DARREN E PURCELL wrote:

> general. thus, they are not specific to Serbia. American passport should
> not cause trouble because Serbian embassies give Americans visas for
> FREE, but they should be gotten in advance. You couldn't get them at the
> border. They will turn you away packing.

I had the same experience at the Hungarian border in the mid-80's.  There
was no problem to get a visa on highways, but when I arrived by train on
the Hungarian border, I was summarily taken off and *rerouted back* to
Yugoslavia.

Carrying all my luggage, I had to walk a long time to get from the Yugo
train station to the nearest highway.  Definitely not the best scenario.  I
lost a full day this way.

BTW, the embassy employee in Lisbon reassured me that I didn't need to
get the visa ahead.  (!)

Better be safe than sorry.  Plan ahead.

Martha

I apologize for the duplicate posting in HUNGARY #673.  When my first
submission bounced, I sent it again, with the same result.  Obviously, it got
to its destination both times by some circuitious route.

Ferenc

The writer of the following asked me to pass this on, as he cannot post
on this list.  Should you care to reply, his address in at the bottom.

Martha
--------------------------------
Forwarded message:


The Book of Esther has no basis in history.  It is an utterly distorted
version of the Babylonian Creation epic with Marduk and Ishtar
Hebraicized. At best, it contains the imaginations of an oppressed author
about how to take revenge.                      Robert Hetzron



From: Robert Hetzron >

Reported by me earlier, quoting (in English) a French language journal
from France:

(... to get train travel discount AS a couple)
> >according to the news, they need to prove concubinage with a certificate.

Please take note: my reportage was FACTUAL.  It tied in with a subject
matter that was being discussed on this very list.

Joe Szalai comments:

> Concubinal certificates are not necessary and they don't really prove
> anything.  If I were a conductor on a train, I'd check the couple out
> myself, and look for things like matching feather boas, toy French poodles,
> and clothes that were not bought at Wal-mart.
>
> By the way, Martha, if you discover any other "twists" to this story, I hope
> that you'll share it with this newsgroup.

F.Y.I.  These are the types of provocations that are and will always be
ignored by yours truly.

Martha

Domokos Kosary is a very well known historian and the departing
president of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences. He is the son of Kosaryne
[Mrs. Kosary] Lola Re'z, known for her somewhat sentimental novels, mostly
written for teenage girls. Kosary began his career as a historian very
young, as a student of Gyula Szekfu. His first job was to prepare an index
for the seven-volume history of Balint Homan and Gyula Szekfu. Then, in
either 1942 or 1943 he wrote a short history of Hungary in English which was
published in the United States. His interpretation was very conservative and
it was considered almost a semi-official, government publication. For the
authorship of this book he paid dearly. Before the 1960s he was forbidden to
publish and spent his time at compiling an excellent three-volume historical
bibliography. (Very useful.) Eventually, he was forgiven for his sins and
became a member of the Academy's Historical Institute. His main field is the
Enlightenment.

        In 1990 he was elected to be the president of the Academy, in which
capacity he served two terms. He was interviewed the other day by Antal Izing.

AI: In 1820 Istvan Horvath proudly wrote: "I discovered that the Bible is
absolutely teaming with Hungarian words." Do we still need this kind of
historical justifications?

DK: Those who need to escape from today's reality into some kind of dream
world will sooner or later discover similar "teaming." . . . A segment of
the public is inclined to look upon history not as a multitude of
professional facts, but as a confession of faith. But our past is not a
thing of religious faith; it is a professional question. . . . A declaration
of faith, which replaces facts are inclined toward politicization with all
its extremes. The further away we stray from rationalism, the more
arbitrarily we distort the past. The harder is our every daily life, the
greater is this tendency. I remember rather vividly that during my
university years I heard a lecture by Gyorgy Szanto, who said that in 1241
we should have made an alliance with the Tartars . . . This was an
understandable statement from a embittered Transylvanian Hungarian without
any hope. But history refuses to listen to postery.

        I thought that these few sentences were apropos to some of out
discussions on this list. I am sure you have all noticed that there is a
correlation between political views and historical interpretations. Domokos
Kosary remembers that someone suggested inthe 1930s that the Hungarians
should have thrown their lots in with the Tartars. Well, not a long time ago
someone suggested on the Internet that we shouldn't have joined Europe by
accepting Christianity! Very similar thinking.

        Eva Balogh

In article >,  says...
>
>Hi norb,
>        While I very much doubt the link between Dubrovnik and Belgrade
>to exist, I might suggest perhaps that from Naples you take the train to
>Brindisi, cross by ferry to Igumenitsa on the coast of western Greece, and
>take a bus connection (there are plenty of them) to Thessalonica, from
>where you will find an easy link by either bus or train to Sofia.
>        If you are not looking for something very adventurous, this
>solution should be satisfactory enough.

Yes! Should you decide to travel south of the Rump Yugoslavia/Srpska
zone then take time out to visit Greece, but be careful!!! You might
end up staying for a long time, like I did ;-)    I know Patras
(Peliponnesos) has (used to have) a ferry connection with Italy.
Albania, too, I understand.

Regards,
--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
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