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1 Re: Meaning of "Germany" (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Slovak/Magyar relationship and the Language Law (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Meaning of "Germany" (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Magyars Hun-ancestry !? (was Re: Joe & Quebec .... (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Dan Pop & Untrustworthy Romanians (mind)  174 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Recognizing unfairness (mind)  221 sor     (cikkei)
7 Matyas, Dan Por &... (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Meaning of "Germany" (mind)  49 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Slovak/Magyar relationship and the Language Law (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Meaning of "Germany" (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Slovak/Magyar relationship and the Language Law (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Recognizing unfairness (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
13 Wanted: Fellow Toy Collector (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: This should settle it. Was: Re: Dan Pop & Quebec & (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: Where are the Hungarians? (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: how to say "Merry Christmas" in Hungarian (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: how to say "Merry Christmas" in Hungarian (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Meaning of "Germany" (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>As to the name of Austria, my guess is that it is a derivative of
>"Ost Reich" (Estern Empire), just as the Hungarian word for Austrians,
>the word "osztrak".  I would also venture to guess that the Slovak word
>for Austria (Rakousko) has its root in the word "Reich".

 Wrong, "Rakousko" comes from the name of ancient celtik tribe "rak"
once living there. The same is for "Bohemia" - it also has the name of
another celtik tribe as origin.



  Oxana Smirnova ( http://www.quark.lu.se/~oxana )

  Lund University
  Department of Elementary Particle Physics
  Professorsgatan 1, S 223 63 Lund, Sweden
  Tel. +46 (46) 222 76 99  Fax. +46 (46) 10 47 09

+ - Re: Slovak/Magyar relationship and the Language Law (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hey Charlie!

I think someone who is sincerely concerned about the good relations between    
and Hungary ought to know the backround of the Language Law being passed.

Well, in your contribution to this group you mentioned that the Slovak-Hungaria
ntreaty has not yet been ratified by the Slovak parliament. The reason for this
 is not the unwilligness (even on Meciarďs side) but the fact that the governin
coalition has also members from the xenophobic National Party. They have put Me
ciar before a simple choice: either his sheep in parliament ratify a new langua
ge law (which does not deal with usage of minority languages and therefore does
 not exclude it, although frankly it is a puke..) or otherwise the National Par
ty wont vote for the Treaty ratification. I hope therefore that the Traety will
 be ratified very soon. Afterwards we should look after that Parliament passes 
the minority-languages law which coul
d sweep this problem from the table for some time to come.

Best Greetings, Vislat

Martin Magal
+ - Re: Meaning of "Germany" (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Daniel Nikovski) wrote:
>Probably the speech of the German tribes was so incomprehensible to 
>Slavic people that they decided Germans could not speak at all. Given
>the general barking sound of German, this is a very possible hypothesis. 
>Of course, it might be all wrong, and it certainly does not explain why 
>Hungarians would use that word. Maybe it is a name of some other obscure 
>Germanic tribe, after all.  

I still do believe the Russian words for German (`nemets' and like) origin from
`nemoj' (Russian for mute) rather than from any mysterious tribe name. When I
was learning German (not very profoundly, I must confess) I noticed that there 
existed an adjective `teutlich' meaning comprehensible, understandable, and
sounding suspiciously alike the word `Deutsch'. So I am inclined to think that
it is but another issue of the same general case. As for the "barking sound of
German", I believe that the word `nemets' had originally been applied to all
the foreigners (European?) in Russia, who just happened to be mostly German due
to the geographical proximity. 

+ - Re: Magyars Hun-ancestry !? (was Re: Joe & Quebec .... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  (Liviu Iord
ache) says:

>Let's get something straight here: 
>the alleged Hun-Magyar dynastic continuity it's neither a historical
>fact, nor a myth without any basis in facts. It is just a plain
>misconception. There is no connection, whatsoever, between the 5th
>century Attila the Hun and 9th century Arpad. Period.

Correct. It might actually be worth regularly posting a FAQ, explaining to 
all the poor souls who frequently betray their ignorance by believing that 
Huns and Magyars are one and the same thing. 

Huns were Turkic and the Magyars were Ob-Ugrian from the Urals (the word 
Hungarian being an unfortunate corruption of Ugrian, which now leads many
simpletons to equate Hun with Magyar.)


**** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK ***
** Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address:  *
 * NW London Computer Club * Commodore=64 stuff wanted: tell me what you have *
 * Interested in secondhand chess books? Ask for my list * Collections bought *
+ - Re: Dan Pop & Untrustworthy Romanians (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Sun, 26 Nov 1995, Wally Keeler wrote:

> Subject: Re: Quebec and/or Transylvania
> >Dan Pop > wrote:
> >>But Romania doesn't follow the worst examples in this case. Should I
> >>mention France again?  No matter how hard you try, you won't find many
> >>examples in Europe where the minorities have better education in their
> >>language than in Romania.
> (Liviu Iordache) wrote:
> >All this discussion concerning the example Romania should follow for
> >solving the minority issue is pointless. And this is because, in 1989
> >and 1990 the Romanian leaders have made no reference to a France or
> >USA model, but rather very specific promises.
> Dan Pop wrote:
> |What Romanian leader made those promises?  Was he entitled by the Romanian
> |people to make them?  Did that leader make other unkept promises, as well?
> Does it matter that said leader made other unkept promises? How does this
> descredit Liviu's statement? The fact remains that specific promises were
> made and those promises were made to the citizens of Romania and if they
> had any self-respect, they would expect those promises to be kept. If you
> had any self-respect as a Romanian, you wouldn't take such a lackadaisical
> cavalier posture towards such promises.
> Was said leader entitled? There was an election wasn't there. The election
> was attended by international observers as well as media. By and large the
> election was fairly held. The current leadershit was handed a mandate by
> the majority of votes cast.
> Dan Pop wrote:
> |Try to find something more convincing next time than the promises of a
> |completely compromised and self-proclaimed Romanian leadership.
> The leadershit was not self-proclaimed -- it was elected. If you want to
> discredit something, it would be more convincing next time if you used more
> substantial material than your spurious aspersions.
> Dan Pop wrote:
> |Other promise made by the same leadership: "this people will never suffer
> |from hunger and cold".  They surely kept it.
> Conclusion: Promises made by any Romanian leadershit and its people for the
> past century at best, have about as much substance as a slice of white
> bread left out in the summer sun for a month.
> Action-to-be-taken: Never trust a Romanian at his word. 
> -- 
> Wally Keeler					Poetry
> Creative Intelligence Agency			is
> Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
Mr. Keller,

It is extremely unpleasant to notice the fact that the best of your 
"Creative Intelligence Agency" is directed to insult a nation only 
because, by different reasons, you don't accept/agree/like, someone's 
postings. From insulting a leader and his people, you jump to insult the 
whole nation. Why ?  It is sad to see that as long as you are not Romanian, 
you pretend knowing Romanians, their life, history, better than anyone and 
more, detaining the absolute truth about ROMANIA ! Don't you think it's too 
much ? With such a "comprehensive" mind, we Romanians were obliged to 
"deal" for 25 years, and believe me, it was enough. It is at least 
undecent for some other country's citizen, no exception if Canadian, to 
"indicate" us that we had to do this/that, that we are like this/that. More, 
to be insulted. Why Mr Keller ? For your fun ? Very curious approach. 

I may say that if you feel so bored by what's happening presently in Canada,
see one of your previous postings, you'll be able to face some exciting events
in the nearest future. According to your ELECTED leader of the official
opposition, Mr. Bouchard. It appears that you have a small respiro, and in 2
years, the "p'tit gars du Quebec va foutre le Canada en l'air". Well, it 
be interesting then, to see where are you going to find some money to keep
the beautiful Ontario "clean" ! You will have flames from top to bottom. 
And, obviously, Ontario alone, won't be able any longer to support the 
other artificial provinces. What's going to happen then Mr Keller ? 
Instead of asking yourself what's going wrong in Transylvania for 
centuries, I think that it would be more practical to ask yourself what 
are you going to eat in 2 years. And the other Canadians that now, are 
living from the federal support. Some 25% of the working force in several 
provinces. This is a tragedy because it's around the corner, Mr Keller. 
Not Romanian's President and his people. If a non communist regime is in 
place at Bucharest, I'm sure the magyars will have their promises respected.
The guys from Transylvania, believe it or not, they will manage 
to survive. Magyars and Romanians will find a way, this is something to 
be solved soon, I think and hope.But what's the Canada's future ? You,
as a good Canadian, aren't you concerned about that ?
  I'm really curious how you,as Canadian,will accept the superior American
judgement: well, my dear frozen ducks, you had the most socialist health
system, the most socialist wellfair system,the most easy to access and 
afford to pay Master's/Ph.D degrees system, the best public
transportation system, a nonviolent environment etc now it's time to find 
out that it was possible only because you have the biggest national debt 
per capita ! A little bit more that $65,000 per native/naturalized 
citizen. One borns with this debt. Nice huh ? The best place on Earth 
forever, huh ? 

And you'll be told that for 100 years the prosperity, the bright future, 
the unpair wellbeing promises were...LIES ????????? So the "elected 
leaders andtheir people" were liars. Wowwww Mr Keller, what now ?
You'll be told that everything was possible because Japan, Germany, France,
England and US were indebting Canada and Canadians. 

Well, you'll pay,now. How would you feel Mr Keller ? For somebody from 
outside to tell you what and how ? You know that you enjoy presently one 
of the best social systems possible. For how long ? Instead of pointing some
Romanian faults/errors/mistakes, whatever you may call them, why don't you
start speaking to Canadians about YOUR OWN PROBLEMS and leave us 
Romanians and Magyars to solve ours. We know better our own weaknesses and
each other's problems. Nobody forbids you to express your ideas and 
share with us your concerns and democracy experience but don't spread 
insults and don't show us your frustrations. Keep them for your near 
future, you will find your desired Canadian flames if you don't wake up.

If you don't like us, and despise us and insult us, why don't you find a 
more interesting and more honest soc.culture ? Who gives you the right
to consider all Romanians as liars ? Why ? Only because you feel 
extremely protected by you english that you manipulate effortless ? Being 
able to crash any discussion partner at your cenvenience ?
Nobody's perfect. So, as you can see, even if I'm a Romanian, I 
can write several lines without insulting you. And I'm not a writer. I'm 
a regular Romanian. You seem to forget the fact that Romanians are on the 
4-5 place in the first nations colonists in Canada. So, maybe, you, as a 
pure Canadian, you may have Romanian roots ? :):):):):) 

It would be nice, acceptable for a honest Canadian, to apologise. I 
encourage you to do so, as an "Action-To-Be-Taken". It's not painful for a 
real man. 

Waiting for your apologies and if you want to develop on the Canadian 
situation (present/future), I think it's a very promising thread. And 
enough guys able to tell us their feelings about that. BTW, what do you 
think Mr Keller, would it be funny, in 5 years, for you to become 
American citizen, former Canadian auction/flea market bought ? Or, 
because, by definition you hate the American moral, you'll find refuge in 
"le Quebec libre et souverain" ? Sounds interesting...And there, for sure, 
nobody will be a liar....It would be a sad moment for the world but as 
long as the Canadians are concerned only with what happened in Europe 2,000 
years ago instead of observing their today's CRITICAL PROBLEMS, it's by far 

Maybe, like too many Canadians, you think that the Frenchies won't dare 
to separate....Well, you are 100% wrong. They will ! "Vous vous fourrez 
les 10 doigts dans l'oeil mon ami !!!", "Ils sont fins prets a fucker le 
maudit Canada et la gagne d'anglophones de TABARNAC" and you know very well
the translation. It would be, really, a very sad moment. 

Did you bother to check how many major companies left Quebec lately ?
And left Canada ? And did you try to do something ? Instead of enlightening
the Romanians about their weaknesses, it would be better to check your own 
people ones. This was a Romanian saying very approximately translated. 
Couldn't do better. And don't think that in Canada it's the best for ever 
place to live, as you posted few weeks ago as an answer to Mr Taranul. 
You are WRONG. This was true untill 1991. And due to the fact that it 
was realised on someone's else money. No big Canadian leader had the 
guts to tell the truth. It was much easier to ask for money outside and 
give the population the impression that everything is "milk amd honey". 
How do you call that ? And all the banks, leaders, governments, 
politicians, etc that knew that and didn't say a word, how do you call 
them ? Honest people of course. Mr Keller, I admit that it's by far, 
much easier to go on the net and call Romanians simply liars instead of 
writing to a Canadian newspaper, right ? Do you feel better now ?
Now, maybe you are not "au courrant mon cher" but the Ontario's ELECTED
prime minister is received at Ottawa, on the street, by the population,
with thrown eggs ! Because he was NOT a liar ?   

+ - Re: Recognizing unfairness (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I've been owing a reply to Bossy so long that I've been wondering if it's
even worth to bother after such a long time (10 days).  Oh, what the hell,
I might as well, though I am pretty bored by the subject as he hasn't told
anything new beyond his usual sophistry.

He started off, with what else, a lame personal attack, calling my postings
self-servingly a "drivel":

>     Far less ridiculous than you sound when you post your drivel, but
> that hasn't stoped you yet, has it?

Why does he bother to answer in such long tirades to somebody whose
writings he considers a drivel?

But he does, and with the following "wisdom", so characteristic of him:

>   How many ethnic Romanians do you believe lived in Moldavia and Wallachia -
> and Transylvania, for that matter - in 1365 when Moldavia broke free from
> Hungarian suzerainty? How many in 1389 when Wallachia broke free from
> Hungarian suzerainty?

I don't know.  Do you?  Please tell us if you do.

>   Do you beleive that one third to one half of
> Romanians died durring the Black Death, as happened accross the rest of
> Europe?  How many died while the Mongols stormed through both Moldavia
> and Wallachia on the way to Orsova?  How many died when the Mongols
> returned to Central Asia after the attacks on Buda and Pest?  How many
> died in breaking free from Hungary?

You obviously must know, so don't keep us hanging in suspense, pleeze!!!
BTW, my guess is that more city and plain dwelling people died from both
the plague and the various invasions than mountain dwelling shepherd
folks.  No proof, just an educated guess.  Do you have a better guess?

>     In making up your numbers remember that Moldavia and Wallachia
> had to have a sufficiently large population to be able to throw off the
> Hungarian yoke and maintain a comparatively successful campaign against
> the Turks starting at the Battle of Kosovo in 1389 and continuing on and
> off at least until the assassination of Prince Michael the Brave.

I like the kind of "proofs" you like to serv up again:  "... had to have
sufficiently large population to be able ...".  As if that was the only
conceivable reason.  How about just "not worth the trouble?"  BTW, those
relatively successive campaigns against the Turks were quite often
international efforts, sort of crusades, if you will, even if the brunt of
the effort may have been bourn by one or two countries threatened most.
Your Prince Michael just got too cocky and ruthless, eventually alienating
even his former allies.  No wonder he ended up the way he did.

> If you don't think that your migration theory requires "tens of
> thousands" of people migrating in every year over several centuries,
> please tell us how few people you think could have pulled it off.  And
> then, perhaps, you could also tell us why you don't take your argument to
> its logical conclusion: that, since so few Romanains could do so much
> against such odds, Romanians are clearly the Master Race.

Huh!  You are digging yourself even deeper in your hole, Alexander.
Since you are only a lawyer, I can understand that the concept of
compounded interest might be beyond your comprehension.  It's too bad,
because it might give you a hint how even a relatively small percentage
of interest can multiplay the original amount quite handsomely over just
a few decades.  Now consider human reproduction, especially at a time when
women were kept pregnant during most of their fertile years (no
contraception, no abortions then!)  Even with the high mortality rate, it
still produced quite a few offsprings per copuple who reached adulthood.

One should look at modern day examples of how even relatively small rate
of immigration by a highly reproductive ethnic group can make a noticable
presence in the population just in a few decades.  Just look at the
high visibility of Turks in Germany these days.  They sure did not migrate
to Germany by the tens of thousand for hundreds of years to Germany.
Most of them are young and already born in Germany.

>     Hogwash.  Either present-day Romania was empty when the Magyars
> came, or else it wasn't.  If a people lived there, then, according to
> your migration theory, Romanians displaced them.  You have posted
> countless times that Romaninains DID NOT displace anyone in settling
> Wallachia and Moldavia.  So, what happened to these aboriginal,
> non-displaced, non-Romanian people?  How did a few shephard clans replace
> them?  Who were these natives.  Where did they come from?

Another nonsense by Bossy.  Whom are the Turks displacing in Germany?
Or the Chinese wherever they go?   Why should a people of shephard life
style displace plain dwelling populations?  They can simply coexist and
compliment each other.

You don't know what folks dwelled in Wallachia and Moldavia before the
Mongol invasions?  Haven't you heard of the Cumans and Petchenegs?
That's who!  They were also pretty much wiped out by the Mongol invasion,
opening up new areas for the Wlachs to move in from south of the Danube
to join the few who broke the path earlier, no doubt.

> Why could they be replaced so easily that there are no records or folk
> memories of their existance, let alone their replacement exit?

Who said there was no record of Cumans and Petchenegs in that area?
You mean just because YOU didn't know about them then there couldn't be?

> If you want Out-of-Illyria to be more than the fairy-tale that it is,
> you've got to have facts and explanations to support it.

Hey, I really don't care if Romanians came from the planet Pluto. My
original objection was to the Daco-Roman continuity theory, maintaining
that it was unproven.

The Out-of-Illiria theory only came up because of the question "if not from
Transylvania, then where from?"  So I am really more interested in
shooting down the continuity arguments than proving anything about
Out-of-Illiria.  Besides, I humbly admit, that I couldn't do it better
than Liviu has done already.  However, one does not need to have Liviu's
rich set of references to shoot down your arguments;  most often they
can be done by just pointing out the holes or sophistry in them.

Because as Liviu so pointedly wrote to you:
> Your use of statistical data is mostly unsound, failing to provide
> appropriate context or comparative framework and little or no means to
> determine if what is said is the norm or only one irrelevant exception. On
> the whole, even where there is reason to suspect that what you claim may
> be correct, the evidence is just not sufficient. Lastly, your defense of
> the continuity theory is seriously flawed methodologically: you repeatedly
> assume that arguments used to illustrate your points amount to proof of
> those arguments. The frequent use of unsupported and often undocumented
> "evidence" means in the end that the reader has no real way of
> establishing the validity of what is being said.

You keep proving the above truism with almost every article you post.
I tell you what:  why don't we both stop posting about it and let's
instead tune in to guys who really know this stuff:  Liviu, Jeliko, *S*,
and who ever might come up later.  After all we both are only amateurs in
this, aren't we?

>     You told me that you had a book, conveniently in Hungarian, that
> claimed that Romanization could not possibly have happened in 160 years.
> Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, you reopening it.  If you don't
> think so, too bad.

Too bad, because it was you who challenged me first to name a book
published in recent years from ANY author.  I would otherwise not have
mentioned Hungarian author which was the one handy at the moment.

Besides, wasn't it you who wrote the following just a few days ago:

>     No, books writen by anyone.  Unlike you, I don't beleive in
> gentically testing authors before reading their works.

But let's go on ...

>     But, you just denied that Romanization took place.  Or were you
> just quoting your Hungarian-language book in order to take up bandwidth?

You are again misrepresenting what I said which was not whether
Romanization took place or not during the Roman occupation, but whether
any Latin civilisation remained there to provide the basis for the
continuity theory.  As I said earlier, Pannonia was occupied even longer,
yet no Latin culture survived there after Romans withdrew from the Limes.

>     Mountains and forests make good places for locals to hide in.
> Plains do not.  It isn't supprising that Dacia's Latin population
> survived Pannonia's.

But that survival in the forests and mountains is only a supposition,
without any conclusive proof.  How did Liviu express this tendency of

> you ... assume that arguments used to illustrate your points amount to
> proof of those arguments.

That wouldn't fly even in a court room, Alexander.

>   But, your arguments are based on ideology, not on reason, so I shouldn't
> expect you to recognize the self-evident without my much-needed aid.

I think it's obvious that the continuity theory is nothing BUT ideological
in nature, its purpose being to create a historical underpinning for
grabbing Transylvania.  Pure and simple.

As to your name's origin, I find our "debate" on it turning into the
macabre.  Believe me, I don't really care about its origin; all I
wanted to point out after hearing your repeated bragging about your
ancestry a few times, that the "Bos" root is too short to be able to make
definite claims as to its origin.  By just coincidence, several languages
might have words with that root, meaning perhaps entirely different
things. Even the "-ii" ending wasn't that rare, as I indicated with the
Russian example.  But just to close at least this thread with you, I go
along with whatever version of your name's origin you like.  As you see, I
am easy.

> : Like I found the word "bozgor" immediately Slavic sounding, meaning
> : "without mountain".  (A man without mountain could easily come to mean
> : "man without a country" among mountain shepherds, right?)
>     But I thought that it was the Romanian immigrants who were the
> shepherds.

Indeed.  That's why to them the mountain concept might have evolved to
also mean "patria."  So that's why they might call anybody without a
country: "bozgor".

Just like for Hungarians the "house" (haz) concept evolved to also mean
the "larger house", the "country" (haza).  Therefore the Hungarian adjective
for someone without a country is virtually the same as someone without a
house: "hazatlan".  Only the accent is on different vowel.

Anyway, this theory of the origin for the word "bozgor" is my own and if
anybody can come up with a better one, my ears are open.  Until then,
I claim a copyright on the idea. ;-)

>     I see, silence means assent to your views.  No wonder you don't
> realize how isolated you are whenever you keep shouting "Out-of-Illyria!
> Out-of-Illyria!"

Another sophistry, Alexander?  You shouldn't have the lawyer in you run so
amok, you know.  Really!  For it was you who first interpreted their
silence as an indication of NOT supporting me to which I responded that
their silence didn't support your position, either.  Your methods are
getting to be despicable, Alexander.

And that's a good reason to stop now.

Joe Pannon
+ - Matyas, Dan Por &... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Existing live lyrical cultures defy civilization. 
Transhumant Balkan cultures are defying the western civilization.  The
Orthodox creed mystified Christ.  The Byzantine existence was frozen in time.
After a thousand years with no change, the Balkans exist outside of the realm
of the western civilization. The epic struggle of the western world has no
resplendence in their culture. There is a difference between a lyrical and an
epic culture. The Mioritic space is the curse of the Romanian.
+ - Re: Meaning of "Germany" (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  says...
>In article >,  (Ilya Talev) 
>|> The word "nemets" [=German] in most Slavic languages is quite puzzling.
>It's not puzzling at all.
>The earlier version of the modern Polish name for the Germans, Niemcy,
>is 'Niemi'. This means 'mute', unable to speak.
>Contrast this with the the meaning of 'Slovo' - spoken word.
>Hence 'Slavs' mean 'those able to speak' or 'those who use speech'.
>Now the picture is clear: In the old days the Slavs divided people
>into two kinds: those whose speech they could undestand, ie other Slavs
>and those whose speech was incomprehensible to them. Those were presumed
>not to be able to speak at all (!), hence 'Niemcy', or 'Niemi'
>Apparently, it didn't occur to the early Slavs that the sounds their
>German neighbours were making was intelligable speech.
>Wojciech R. Rypniewski          tel: +49-40-89902142
>EMBL c/o DESY                   fax: +49-40-89902149
>Notkestrasse 85                 E-mail: 
>D-22603 Hamburg, Germany        WWW: http://www.embl-hamburg.de/~Wojtek/

It IS puzzling, Dear Wojciech!

It is PUZZLING because, as I demonstrated with the earliest
written Slavic examples, it meant ANY FOREIGNER. What is
puzzling is why the honor of being the utmost foreigner was
bestowed on the German.

Unfortunately, Polish is not the Slavic language where one can find
early linguistic evidence on anything but a few personal names.
Latin was the language of choice and what we know as early Polish
writings dates from the beginning of the 15th century. Ergo: we
DONT'T REALLY KNOW what the early Poles called the Germans.


+ - Re: Slovak/Magyar relationship and the Language Law (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


>Unfortunately, I have to agree with you again.  I too am becoming 
>convinced that it is useless to discuss this issue on this group. 
>Good luck to you.

What I said did not mean I consider it totally useless to discuss things.
After all, I follow this group because of interest in the matters
discussed here. What I wanted to say is that I am not going to say YES
or NO to every opinion presented here. I pick my subjects. If I feel
enough was said about the language law, why add anything ?

Matej Lexa                              At present: 
Irrigation Research Inst.               Dept. of Plant Biology
Bratislava, SLOVAKIA                    University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaig
********************** "There's only one kind of music." **********************
+ - Re: Meaning of "Germany" (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  (Ilya Talev) wr

|> The word "nemets" [=German] in most Slavic languages is quite puzzling.

It's not puzzling at all.
The earlier version of the modern Polish name for the Germans, Niemcy,
is 'Niemi'. This means 'mute', unable to speak.
Contrast this with the the meaning of 'Slovo' - spoken word.
Hence 'Slavs' mean 'those able to speak' or 'those who use speech'.

Now the picture is clear: In the old days the Slavs divided people
into two kinds: those whose speech they could undestand, ie other Slavs
and those whose speech was incomprehensible to them. Those were presumed
not to be able to speak at all (!), hence 'Niemcy', or 'Niemi'
Apparently, it didn't occur to the early Slavs that the sounds their
German neighbours were making was intelligable speech.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wojciech R. Rypniewski		tel: +49-40-89902142
EMBL c/o DESY			fax: +49-40-89902149
Notkestrasse 85			E-mail: 
D-22603 Hamburg, Germany	WWW: http://www.embl-hamburg.de/~Wojtek/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ - Re: Slovak/Magyar relationship and the Language Law (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Matej Lexa) wrote:

>>the only Slovak on this list who thinks the law is not good and is not 
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Have you been following the discussion ? Maybe it is 50%, maybe 30%, I
> didn't bother to count, but 1 ??? 

You should feel flattered, Mato.  The rest of us obviously do not

>I also don't feel like I am going to acheive 
>anything by shouting on this group about how bad the law is.

True, but pubnlic opinion does count for something.  If one sees an
idiotic or unjust law being shoved in, you should still protest.

Karl Pollak               FidoNet 1:153/965
Richmond, B.C.            Canadian Infomaticon BBS
+ - Re: Recognizing unfairness (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  (Liviu Iord
ache) says:

>>A romanian peasant from Transilvania once told me the following joke.
>[bad-Hungarian vs. maverick-Romanian joke deleted]
>You want a recipe for Hungarian "goulash." Here it goes:
>First, one must steal two chickens....:-)
>Liviu Iordache

Dear Liviu,

Why do you feel the need to stoop to quoting anti-Hungarian jibes? You 
post the one about the Hungarian who said *let's kill him and steal...* 
story as though this sums up the Hungarian mentality, and now this 
*steal two chickens...* thing...Are you so insecure that you feel you 
need to try to diminish others before you can feel equal to them??? If 
you must make such jokes there are other ngs for *jokes* and *tasteless*. 
I, too, could easily bore the world with English jokes about the Irish, 
Dutch ones about the Belgians, Serbian ones about Bosnians, etc, etc, 
but it is all pretty low mentality stuff. Is this what you are really 
made of?

Can you imagine Hungarians posting the huge number of magyar anti-Romanian 
jibes on the 'net? No doubt some lame-brain will retaliate to your abuse, 
but why diminish yourself and encourage other half-wits in such bandwidth 
wasting exercises? Come on: keep up standards and show everyone that 
Romanians are better than that.


**** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK ***
** Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address:  *
 * NW London Computer Club * Commodore=64 stuff wanted: tell me what you have *
 * Interested in secondhand chess books? Ask for my list * Collections bought *
+ - Wanted: Fellow Toy Collector (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


I am looking for someone to trade collectable toys with in Hungary.

What I am looking for is only available in Hungary.  If you would like to 
trade for USA issued toys, such as Star Wars, Barbie..., please email me.

I could also trade for non-toy items if there is something you would like
from the USA like: books, records, cassette tapes...'

+ - Re: This should settle it. Was: Re: Dan Pop & Quebec & (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  (VGhita) says:
>My Dear Friends ,
>Transilvania (Erdely, this for other people to read and fully understand)
>belongs to Romania .(period , no exclamation points , not needed...)

Not really, old chap......

It belongs to the people of Transylvania/Erdely. Savvy???


**** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK ***
** Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address:  *
 * NW London Computer Club * Commodore=64 stuff wanted: tell me what you have *
 * Interested in secondhand chess books? Ask for my list * Collections bought *
+ - Re: Where are the Hungarians? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Sun, 26 Nov 1995, Parker Lim wrote:

> Tell me, how can anyone staying in Tatabanya or Komarom have the
> chance to even own a computer or a modem and to read English like many
> others do?

 While one can actually have a modem connection in most every city, it 
may be prohibitevily expensive - even for most folks in the capital; on 
the other hand in my experience we country folks speak at least as good 
English as those with the dubious luck if living in Budapest ;-). The big 
problem is that Usenet connection is very spotty for the whole country.

 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 
 NOTE: spamsters and bulk emailers see 'X-Policy*:' in the 
header for the charges to be imposed for net abuse!
+ - Re: how to say "Merry Christmas" in Hungarian (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

David JORGENSEN ) wrote:
> How do you translate

> "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year love from David" into Hungarian?

> thanks for your help!


If you would like to put "love from"  you should write
    ->  Szeretettel, David
everything else though was ok.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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+ - Re: how to say "Merry Christmas" in Hungarian (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
>How do you translate
>"Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year love from David" into Hungarian?
>thanks for your help!
To translate: Kellemes karacsonyi unnepeket es boldog uj evet kivanunk,