Andras Kornai writes:

> I'm not at all sure about this, even as a taxpayer. I lack the
background in
> civil  engineering to decide whether a new waste-treatment plant or a
new
> bridge is more needed, and I'm quite willing to delegate the
responsibility
> for such decisions to enlightened civil servants (such people exist, I
actually
> met some).

I am not questioning that there are some capable people working for
various stratas of government. But I disagree with you that you could
not make the decision which one is needed more any worse than the
politicians who authorize the actual project priorities.

> > It just makes it worse, that now in addition to the needy, the
taxpayers have
> > to maintain the typically better than average lifestyle of the
bureaucratic
> > middle class also.
> In general it's not easy to lower their salaries, and actually I don't
think
> policemen etc. should be underpaid. How to cut government fat and
> overspending is not any less a republican problem than a democratic
problem.

Agree, it is the problem of the whole nation, not any particular party.

> > I am for as much local comtrol over the spending as possible.
Otherwise use
> > taxes for most services by the users whenever possible.
> How would you deal with a large city like Budapest? Should it be
district by
> district control or more centralized? In particular, should tax money
from
> people living in Buda be spent on stopping urban blight in Pest?

Yes, tax money should come from all of Budapest for most projects, some
probably could be localized but that would be a special case. However,
welfare receepient selection and priotization should be on a much
smaller area, probably district by district. For general use items by
all citizens, the decision making power should rest with all of the
people or their representatives if they are democratically elected. BTW,
I think Hungary should deemphasize concentration of too many things in
Budapest. With the tremendous improvement in communication and
transportation that is occuring even there, not everything is needed to
be in Budapest.

> > Unfortunately, many people do not want to and many do not know how
to work.
> > Many of them are well acclimatized to the amount of money they get
from the
> > public, without any effort on their own part to improve their own
standard of
> > living. Many of them are more content then those who work for a
living.
> So what? Beggars were with us from the beginning of time, and now that
the
> world is richer we can tolerate a larger number of them. I can't see a
>  reasonably
> well-to-do person like me to complain about this, and to hear someone
like
> you who's even better off to whine about the welfare-reecipients
laziness is
> just mindboggling.

Disagree, we are loosing a part of society that is being maintained in a
non-productive level and therefore deprived of being full participants
of our society. I am convinced that growing up in a welfare home is
discrimination toward the next generation. Regardless of how well we
intend to take care of children it will be still like zoo, rather than
free. IMHO  the current welfare methodology is wrong except in very
special cases.

> > Ok, for an equation to be valid it has to be valid at the integrated
limits
> > also. Finally, we will have one fellow working and everybody else
living off
> > this fellow.
> Actually, zero person working, all production being done by machines.
We
> already see a great deal of this, and we are going to see more. In
fact,
> jobs have become a prize to fight for, and I think reducing the
workweek is
> an imperative.

Well you sound like a believer inthe theory that automation will
eliminate jobs, I think it creates jobs. But this is for some other
time.

> > Why is it that it is accepted that those who lived on taxpayer funds
> > should have a more comfortable retirement than those who paid the
taxes?
> You mean, should government jobs be a means of increasing your status,
> especially if you come from the lower strata of society? I think they
should.

No, I do not think that upward mobility should be restricted to the
government jobs. The problem I have, for example, is that government
retirement programs are better now than those available to the people
who are paying for them in their taxes and in many cases they exempted
themselves from the Social Security inclusion.

> > I disagree. People in East Palo Alto would have more knowledge on
who
> > deserves assistance, than folks in D.C. or Sacramento.
> Oh yes, they would have more knowledge, sure. But they don't have the
money.
> Can we play this out on the Buda and Pest example, just to steer
closer to
> HUNGARY?

You seem to be implying that tax contribution is what I am restricting,
it is not, it is the control of the distribution that I want to
localize.

> to have any gold or oil worth discussing) the problem is no longer the
cushy
> problem of distribution, it's the rougher problem of REdistribution.

I do not know what would be the case in Hungary if the earnings of the
top 5% would be confiscated, but IMHO it would not cover more than a few
weeks of government expenditures. The same here and many other places.
The government in fact is collecting from everybody and could not
survive otherwise. They need ideas in Hungary. As an example I had seen
huge deer farms in New Zealand for the middle east and India markets. It
is not pig and not cattle so it is OK for most folks. Growing wheat and
corn in Hungary will never compete with the major supplier areas, they
have to specialize. Befor the communist takeover, in southern Hungary
there were large rose farms and tree nurseries, lot of work but also
very profitable. Whatever they do has to be profitable and very
innovative and regain a "quality" status.

> > So you consider it fair that the groups who have better grant
writers get the
> > money, rather than those who need it more?
> It's the usual question about packaging. Do you think it's fair that
companies
> with inferior products but better marketing can sell more?

Disagree, in your example the customer has a free choice to be fooled.
That is not the case with the grant writers.

> Why don't you list some other baddies? I think the DEA is an army of
> dangerous thugs, and Waco serves as proof. How about the defense
> intelligence establishment and Beltway Bandits in general? Big Science
is
> another intolerable waste of money (the SSC shows there are limits,
but
> the thing is still a giant pork barrel).

You can add to the list many others. I am involved with one project that
is budgeting about a billion/year for the next fifty years. It is done
on a lobby basis and not on a need basis.

> I'm sorry, consumption based doesn't get you that and neither does
income
> based. It's a completely different issue. Consumption based is
essentially
> regresssive -- could that be why you are supporting it?:-). While I
don't
> like too much progressivity (the Swedish example shows what's wrong
with it)
> I definitely don't think regressive is a good idea.

It is not difficult to balance it. Certain items should be exempted from
VAT and some progressivity in taxes is neccessary. Although I am still
convinced that all people should clearly understand what taxes they are
paying and should have a much stronger say in how they are spending it.

> more aspects of life. Certanly de-etatization is the biggest task
facing
> Hungary today, and it is surprising how little progress a right-wing
> government made in four years.

Amen.

> > [FDR] was a slick politician like most of the others.
> Sure he was. But I do think his political philosophy was one of
liberalism.

We will stay disagreed on this one.

> > My favorite president in this century was Teddy. He was liberal
internally,
> > broke up the trusts, created the park system etc.,
> ^^^^^REGULATION^^^^^^  ^^^^^NATIONALIZATION^^^^^^^
> Quite seriously, antitrust regulation was the biggest break with
classical
> capitalism the world has seen at that point, and I bet that lots of
> editorial ink was spilled on how this intervenes with the businesses'
right
> to free association, their right to maximize profits, etc. As for the
park
> system, if that's not nationalization I don't know what is.

We can argue trusts until we are blue in the face. I do not think price
fixing is a tenet of the free market. Competition is free market because
it gets and needs feedback. When the feedback is eliminated it is
neither free or competitive very long.
Initially, the national parks were set aside from the federal lands and
it was not nationalization, per se but an unprivatization that took
place. (Of course in those days they did not ask the Indians for their
opinion).Currently, IMHO purchase at a fair price is the way to increase
them if needed not regulatory expropiation.

Regards,Jeliko.

On Thu, 14 Jul 1994, Hugh Agnew wrote:

> me!) that "Red Csepel" was an Arrow-Cross stronghold before the end of the
> war; i.e. that the distance from right-radical to left-radical wasn't all
> that far for at least some of the workers...

It sounds rather logical as the population, where heavy industry is
located, traditionally favors political platforms that are in
favor of military-industry.

Unfortunately, due to the communist take over after World War II most of
the truth about the complex situation of the late 1930's and first half
of 1940's was rewritten in to good guys (Rakosi, Gero, Stalin.... later
Kadar, Sagvari etc) and bad guys (Szalasi, Horthy, Bajcsi-Zsilinszky -
he was later taken of the list -...) story.

Due to the new openness the History is being restored in to a more balanced
account. It will take a generation or two until we will be able to look
at it more objectively.



                                                        Attila

There is a "China-town" in Manchester, I suspect a larger % chinese
people here, than in Bp., arrived not that long ago I think -
nobody seems to be worried. Eva Durant.

>
> Zoli, you mis the point:
> *****************************************************************************
> > Recently in the English-language weekly Budapest Week, there was a story
 about
> >  the recent influx of Chinese small businessmen, looking to invest in
> > businesses and looking to gain Hungarian citrizenship and raise their
> > families - there are estimated to be 10,000-20,000
> > their now, mostly in Budapest.  Does anyone deny thcontinued presence is a
> >  threat to what is left of a Hungarian identity (Yes, I now that
> > "Magyars" are hard to  find, and that most Hungarians are a mix of
> > several ethnic groups - my mix is 1/2 German, somce >  Magyar,
> > and who knows).
>  Yeah, I certainly question that assertion. If there exists such a nation
> whose identity is threatened by a tenth of a percent 'alien element' then
> they would have much graver problems than that presence. But I doubt that
> there is any such, and ours is certainly not one.
> *****************************************************************************
>
> You're right strickly speaking. 1/10th of 1% is not significant. 1% is!
> If current trends continue, there will be more Chinese and others.  That is
> NOT to say they are bad people, or lesser people.  I'd just like to keep
> what I have, and my heritage is threatened by their presence.
>
> Paul Gelencser

It wasn't clear you were talking about Hungarians outside
Hungary.  I had the impression, that ethnic minorities maintain
usually their culture/history - if allowed ofcourse - through
their own organisations, such as the Hungarian Club here.E.D.
>
> On Thu, 14 Jul 1994, Eva Durant wrote:
>
> > Get real! If you really think 1848 was not taught you better pay a
> > visit to Hungary. There again, if you are into racial hatred and new
> > wars, then stay put. E.D.
>
>
> First of all, I wroted that Hungarians living outside of Hungary did not
> learn about their own history such as March 15, 1848. Although I was born
> in Budapest and attended high school in Budapest and studied
> International Economy. However, I attend elementary school in Prague
> (since my father was a diplomat). Furthermore my father's
> family lives in Slovakia.
>
> Well my experience is that in Slovakia, Hungarians were not though about
> March 15, 1948 only in major cities. May be my cousins were CIA agents at
> the age of 10 and lied about it.
>
> Second, I just put together a documentary on how March 15, 1948 is
> celebrated by Hungarians living in the countries surrounding Hungary
> based on footages I received from the Duna T.V. and conversations I had
> with mayor of various cities such as Munkacs. Well guess what "real
> real person"? In Carpathian Ukraines, places like Munkacs Hungarian kids
> age of 12 - 15 did not even know about March 15, 1848. And the kids
> grandmother said "Oh yes I think March 5, (not a mistake she did say
> March 5,) is a holiday".
> Repoter; -" Why do you think it is a holiday".
> Grandma; - "I got a calendar from Hungary, and March 5, is printed with
>         red ink."
>
>
> Of course there are people who know about March 15 and majority of the
> people do.
>
>                                                         With love
>
>                                                         Attila
>
> P.S. My major was International Relation with focus on Marxist theory and
> Soviet-Eastern European relations. Just for your info "Real person". The
> rest of your note is just as big rubbish so I will not even reply.

I hope you do read stuff, even when  known to be of a
different point of view. Eva Durant


>
> According to Eva Durant Lomax's book (1976) on the Hungarian revolution of
> 1956 is a third point of view between two others:
>
> "Misty eyes of Gyula Horn opposed to misty eyes of Eva Balogh. (Each rep-
> resenting a /misty/ point of view?)"
>
> Well, I haven't ever considered writing a book on the Hungarian revolution,
> and, as far as I know, neither did Gyula Horn. So, comparing Bill Lomax to
> us, two rather lowly participants in the Hungarian revolution, is really
> beside the point. There have been some very good books appearing shortly
> after the events on the subject based on personal recollections, transcripts
> of radio programs, oral history, and so on and so forth. Today there is a
> separate historical institute in Hungary whose task is the collection of
> documents and oral histories of the period. Historians employed by the
> institute publish valuable monographs quite frequently. Lomax's book is
> almost twenty years old: he had as many documents at his disposal as Vali and
> Meray almost twenty years earlier except without their personal involvement
> in the events. (One could certainly argue about the pluses and minuses of
> such an involvement but I considered those early monographs quite good.)
> American political scientists and historians wrote a articles here and there,
> especially at the time of anniversaries, but most of the collections were
> simple rehashing of earlier books, because no new documentation was
> available. Now, there is, and plenty of it, with the opening of until-now
> closed archives in Russia as well as in Hungary.
>
> As for Lomax, his worldview is a very specific one: he describes himself in
> interviews as an "anarchist-socialist" (see an interview with him in *168
> ora* (April 12, 1994, p. 22). Eva Balogh

Good news! they still pay 50Ft for big plastic cola bottles, visi-
tors recently filled it with water driving back (in 16 hours) to
Budapest. Eva Durant
>
> Eva D.--
>
> You're darn right, and not only that, they've practically phased out despoit
> bottles, and they won't give cash for plastic ones.
>
> Here's an anecdote about toilet paper. On the Hungarian version of "Wheel of
> Fortune" they're giving away stuff like Tomi detergent and, you got it, toile
t
> paper, as prizes. Don't ask me why, and no I swear to god I never watch the
> show in Hungary -- no Vanna, no wheel! :-)
>
> -Marc

OK I give my definition.

Multiculturalism is permitting each nationality to cultivate its own
culture in addition to the nations culture.

Or do I have to start "bashing" again. :-)

Regards,Jeliko.

In reply to your message of "Thu, 14 Jul 94 22: 28:16 GMT."
             >
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 07:43:24 -0700
From: 

Jeliko writes:

> Multiculturalism is permitting each nationality to cultivate its own
> culture in addition to the nations culture.

And I guess the real difference is between this definition and one that
would substitute "instead of" for "in addition to".

> Or do I have to start "bashing" again. :-)
Don't be bashful.  :-)


--Greg

Andra1s,

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for the day.
Teach him to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

If the side affect is no more beggers to subsidize, so much
the better - call it enlightened self interest if you want, but
it is the best for all involved.

Paul Gelencser

multiculturalism (def.: Paul) - the state of well meaning people allowing
 foreign
cultures to exist in their country on an equal or significant level of
 acceptance
with the native culture, resulting in the creation of a new culture, and the
loss of the original native culture.  The antithesis of assimilation by
foreign people into the native culture of a land.

Both threaten the existnace of a nation, by applying outside pressure to it's
way of life, and heritage.

(Noah Webster would be proud)

Paul

Greg,
>And I guess the real difference is between this definition and one that
>would substitute "instead of" for "in addition to".

Either way, the native culture dies, and something else is born.

Paul

This isn't my fight, but it looks like someone's got to jump in here.

If the presence of Chinese is such a great threat to the Hungarian
way of life, should we in America welcome so many Hungarians?  By the
same logic, wouldn't they be a threat to the American way of life?

Personally, I enjoy having so many internationals in this country,
and don't see a problem.  Just wanted to comment on what seems to
be a problem in logic.

In reply to your message of "Fri, 15 Jul 94 11: 44:42 EDT."
             >
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 10:08:07 -0700
From: 

Paul writes:

> Either way, the native culture dies, and something else is born.

Why so grim?  My guess would be that a nation with a 1100 year history
has died and been reborn several times already.

Don't paint the devil on the wall; rather plan to laugh at him if he
tries to show up.  :-)

--Greg

It seems that one group on the list sees "multiculturalism" as a threat
or *extinction* and the other sees it as progress or *evolution*. My
academic advisor at CU often said he thought Hungary's rather ample
contributions to science, literature, etc. were due to it's large gene
pool. Let's not forget all those Avars, Slavs, Goths, Cumans, Pechenegs,
Mongols, Ottoman Turks, Greeks, Romans, French, Germans, Poles, Wends,
and Roumanians who were drawn to the Carpathian basin over the last
several hundred years. Maybe the Magyars were the "glue" that kept all
these genes together. ;-).

        Bob...manapsag csak babot es paszujt essem.

>It seems that one group on the list sees "multiculturalism" as a threat
>or *extinction* and the other sees it as progress or *evolution*. My

If it is an evolutionary process, what is a Hungarian?  If we get too far from
the Magyar foundation, will we still call them Hungarians?

Paul

On Fri, 15 Jul 1994, Charles wrote:

> If the presence of Chinese is such a great threat to the Hungarian
> way of life, should we in America welcome so many Hungarians?  By the
> same logic, wouldn't they be a threat to the American way of life?


I have problems with your statement.

1. Hungarians have the tendency to assimilate in to the surrounding
culture while the Chinese do not. If you wish more on that topic (Chinese
studies) I am more than glad to give you some sample from my friend's
study on that topic (He's name is Burbank Jung -ABC).

2. Americans (I do presume you are referring to U.S. and not Columbians,
Brazilians and other americans) are not an ethnic group while Hungarians
are. If I have a child who is born in the U.S. he/she will became a
native american (The U.S. Censure Bureau using Native American Indian for
Navajos etc while native american for U.S. citizens born in the U.S.),
while if I have a child who is born in Japan will not became a Japanese.
Bbbiiggg difference.


> Personally, I enjoy having so many internationals in this country,
> and don't see a problem.  Just wanted to comment on what seems to
> be a problem in logic.

Me too. One of the charm of the U.S.

                                                        Attila

P.S. By the way I would say ....so many nationals... not "internationals".

Paul writes:
>if it is an evolutionary process, what is a Hungarian? If we get too
far from the Magyar foundation, will we still call them Hungarians?

Cultures, like languages, evolve. Hungarian or for that matter American
culture in 2025 will surely be different than Hungarian or American
culture today. As long as the culture retains certain characteristics
that identify it as "Hungarian" or "American" we will still call them
Hungarians or Americans.

        Bob...a gombasz.

>
>I have problems with your statement.
>
>1. Hungarians have the tendency to assimilate in to the surrounding
>culture while the Chinese do not.

The existence of this list and the list of Hungarian organizations
in this country suggests that Hungarians still retain a strong
cultural identity.  That's good, as far as I'm concerned, but
it suggests that Hungarians do not assimilate to the point of
extinction.

>2. Americans (I do presume you are referring to U.S. and not Columbians,
>Brazilians and other americans) are not an ethnic group while Hungarians
>are. If I have a child who is born in the U.S. he/she will became a
>native american (The U.S. Censure Bureau using Native American Indian for
>Navajos etc while native american for U.S. citizens born in the U.S.),
>while if I have a child who is born in Japan will not became a Japanese.
>Bbbiiggg difference.
>
Sure, your child would have American citizenship.  But I suspect that
you would see to it that he or she knows about Hungarian culture and
I suspect that you would do the same if he or she were born in Japan.

>> Personally, I enjoy having so many internationals in this country,
>> and don't see a problem.  Just wanted to comment on what seems to
>> be a problem in logic.
>
>Me too. One of the charm of the U.S.
>
>                                                        Attila
>
>P.S. By the way I would say ....so many nationals... not "internationals".

You are technically correct.  I should have said people whose background is
more recently international.  Of course, all of us except the Navahos, etc.
come from somewhere else.  When it comes to that, the so-called Native
Americans displaced an older group of inhabitants, the Mound Builders
for example, who are not related to what we now call American Indians or
Native Americans.  But you still can't beat Budapest in June.

Please unsubscribe me as well.
>Please unsubscribe me

>
> Andra1s,
>
> Give a man a fish, and you feed him for the day.
> Teach him to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

This is a Chinese saying isn't it?
So, you will take their wisdom, you just don't want THEM around.

> Paul Gelencser


--
Mr. Eran Williams

                        

Alfred Gal's question is still floating out there, as far as I know, so
I, though neither Hungarian nor a specialist in Hungarian history, will
attempt a brief answer:

15 March 1848 was the date of the manifestations in Buda and Pest during
the springtime of upheaval across Europe that is generally referred to as
the "Revolution of 1848".  It's traditionally taken as the starting point
for the attempt to create a united, liberal, self-governing Kingdom of
Hungary (perhaps loosely linked to the Habsburgs' other possessions) that
ended in the proclamation of a republic, the deposition of the Habsburgs,
the election of Lajos Kossuth as Governor, a combined Austrian and Russian
military intervention, and the crushing of the Hungarian bid for independence.
It's kind of like the rough equivalent of US July 4, only overladen with more
tragedy (this is Hungary, after all!).

Istvan Deak's _The Lawful Revolution_ is probably now the standard historical
study in English; Jozsef Nyerges published an English translation of Petofi
that includes his diary entries for 15 March as well as later, and a lot of
the poetry (surprisingly [to me, at least] only two stanzas of the National
Song), and there are other works.  A good reference librarian could point
you off in all kinds of directions.

There's much more to say, but in the interests of brevity I'll quit here.

Sincerely,

Hugh Agnew

Dear Attila, this is getting really absurd:
>  Hungarians have the tendency to assimilate in to the surrounding
> culture while the Chinese do not. If you wish more on that topic (Chinese
> studies) [...]

 Myself I wish we could stick to Hungarian not Chinese topics ;-(. Just
how a few percent aliens is going to "surround" and thus threaten our
culture? The only significant "assimilation", aside from the
here irrelevant case of emigrants to foreign countries, was where
Hungarians 1) lived in scattered minority 2) among a majority whose
policy was aggressive de-Magyarization 3) and were officially persecuted
or at least hard-pressed for their nationality. And even then the result
was a relatively small drop in their numbers (the real ones that is, not
the coerced CK census) over a few generations, nothing of the magnitude
suggesting they would disappear for centuries even. I fail to see how any
number of immigrants, be them non-assimilating Chinese or whatnot, would
attain the power to create conditions 1 thru 3 (the lattest requiring alien
takeover of the HU government).

-- Zoli, increasingly bewildered ;-<

JELIKO ) wrote:
: Marc Nasdor writes:

: > With all the talk of Hungarian anti-Semitism, I personally believe most
: of it
: > is a lot of baloney, particularly in the last decade. Unfortunately, the
: > charge gets employed by those who seem to feel that fear-mongering will
: some-
: > how advance their desire of dividing the Hungarian people. It's 1994, and
: the
: > citizens of Hungary have had enough of it. Evidently, those who disagree
: > didn't bother to vote in the last election.
: >                                              Regards, Marc
: I believe that anti-Semitism was always a territory of a small minority in
: Hungary.

: Regards,Jeliko.

these observations are not shared by the jews i know in budapest. most changed
their names to hide their jewish identity. blum became banyasz, schwartz
became sasadi, schwartz became somlai, breuer became barta, blassz became
dozsa, augstein became agas, blumenstein became budai, blum became baranyai,
etc. this was not because of the tolerance and acceptance experienced from
the vast majority of the population.

i know of a number of families where the children did not know they were jewish
until coming home one day from school either complaining about "a piszkos
zsidok" or about being called one.

it is not a sign of tolerance when the benficiaries of it feel the need to
hide. in a yolerant society, there is no need for jews, or gypsies, or
homosexuals, or ...... to stay in the closet.

when i went to hungary in 1975, my first trip there since leaving in 1956,
i fenced in one of the clubs in budapest. i was warned by members of other
clubs that it was full of jews. the warning was misplaced since the persons
accused of being jewish were not. the first one accused was a religious
protestant whose brother had been my father's classmate in high school. i
found the experiences -- for these were not isolated -- salutory, and i
became aware of the extent of anti-semitism in hungary. in my subsequent
visits, this impression was confirmed. perhaps the situation has changed
since my last visit one-and-a-half years ago.

d.a.

Eva Durant Writes:
> No, you cannot buy them anymore; my mother prefers Hungarian made
> Tomi washing powder products (cheaper and better she says) but
> "hianycikk", also "kismamacipo" comfortable, cheap working shoes -
> difficult to get, cheap unbleached toilet papers - ditto. E.D.

There could be several reasons. Tomi may have been made with compounds that
albeit work very well but environmentally are unacceptable. There were a
number of Hungarian products made that way in the past, while now they are
trying to conform to CEU norms. It was also possible that the reason they
were inexpensive because the manufacturer was loosing money making it.
However, if it can legally and profitably be made all is needed is
identification of the need and some innovative individual.
I remember when they were dumping milk and near the Yugo border everyone
was complaining that the dairy products were bought up by the Yugos and
none were available in the stores. And everyone was waiting for Godot.

Regards,Jeliko.

Eva Durant writes:
> >
> Get real! If you really think 1848 was not taught you better pay a
> visit to Hungary. There again, if you are into racial hatred and new
> wars, then stay put. E.D.

I think Attila was writing about the folks OUTSIDE the borders of Hungary.
So your advise to visit Hungary is irrelevant.
However, you may be get some information if you pick up a Slovakian or
Romanian or Serb history book. Isn't there an east European bookshop in
London?

Jeliko.

Eva Durant writes:
> Its crisis, chaos, more crisis, war. The system only works if you
> can make more profit, but with the size of investment necessary, profits
> cannot grow any longer, or something like that. I know better the
> symptoms, bad at quotes. (You have time + library and hopefully
> not tied by the feudal themes of everyone should know
> their place and we have here the best possible world) Eva Durant

Gee, I always slept through these lectures, somebody apparently was
fervently listening.

Jeliko.

Eva Durant writes:
> I have the feeling, you won't go very far in your academic career in
> the US or UK aspecially in humanities if you are "out" as a communist
> or socialist (US) and I connect this environment to the total absence
> of this option there. (In the UK there are  socialists so called and
> they could win if they were not pretending to be conservatives)E.D.

1) At least for the US you are wrong.

2) I don't think the chance for the UK to go socialist is rather remote,
however just in case, I am sure as hell glad for 76, 17 that is.

Jeliko.

> Good news! they still pay 50Ft for big plastic cola bottles, visi-
> tors recently filled it with water driving back (in 16 hours) to
> Budapest. Eva Durant

Only for the special 1,5 liter plastic bottles, and 30Ft, not 50.
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Imre Va'go', Debrecen