Hi,

anybody interested in exchanging postcards with me? I would love to get
a postcard from your beautiful country. hope i have not transgressed
into your serious/imp discussions. e-mail me or send a card to my
address, I will reciprocate

thanks
srinivas

address:
1530, south 6th street,# C 1307,
Minneapolis, MN-55454, USA.

http://www.menet.umn.edu/~srinivas

It is great to see the surge in interest in Muzsikás and Sebestyén
Márta.
I have most of her albums, first being exposed to the music by a good
friend in Budapest.  I started my collection while working in Hungary in
1989.  I even had the incredible good fortune of spending time in Ócsa,
a small village in which some students renovated a traditional thatched
roof house.  In exchange for their work, the students could host
dancehouse parties on weekends.  The most incredible part of this was
that members of Muzsikás including Csoori Sándor, and members of Téka,
would come to play and drink wine and "mulat." (I don't know if there is
an English translation of this but it sort of means "to celebrate with
sentimentality and retrospect).  They didn't charge or expect anything
as they knew these students had little to offer, they just loved to
play.  This sincerity and love for their music comes through in their
concerts and albums. 

While the albums mentioned in the prevoius postings are excellent,
especially "Prisoner's Song" and "Blues for Transylvania,"  I must
highly recommend "Nem Arról Hajnalik Amerrôl Hajnalott."  This is VERY
well produced album with some very traditional songs with traditional
instruments and arrangements as well as Muzsikás arranged versions of a
few songs using a sort of American country sound with guitar.  Truly
superb, I can't say enough of this album, and includes the song
"Szerelem, Szerelem."  Luckily this album is available at many music
stores.

"HipCat"
-- 
Visit my homepage!  http://mason.gmu.edu/~achassel/

Could you help me in finding lids of my family.

My father's name is POLONYI AUREL BELA borned october 15 1913 in
TISZAPALKONYA.
His father POLONYI ANTAL
His mother GIBAS ANNA

Also the family of POLONYI MIHALY december 26 1923 in NAGYVARAD (Romania).

Is there a more concerned newsgroup?

english/french/ungarn  angol/franciaul/magyar

My adress  

Thanks.

Polonyi Roland

Thirty Spokes Trading Company is a Canadian small business whose mission is to 
establish fair and ethical trade links that promote the social and economic pro
gress 
of groups and individuals with special needs and low income craftsmen and 
women through the direct export of their products.
We are seeking to purchase small quantities ofhandcrafted gift and decorative 
items that have a market in North America.
If you believe that you or a group or individual in your sphere of influence mi
ght 
benefit from a grassroots endeavour like this, we will be happy to receive your
 
reply.  Thank you for considering our offer.
Sincerely
Michael and Joanne Wyatt
Thirty Spokes Trading Company

In soc.culture.nordic Markku Huttu-Hiltunen > 
wrote:
: Jarmo Ryyti wrote:
: > 
: > In soc.culture.nordic Markku Huttu-Hiltunen .
fi> wrote:
: > : Markku Huttu-Hiltunen wrote:
: > 
: > :  The genetics of the Finns is 75% western European and 25% Asian.
: > 
: > Bullshit. 25 % are Saami genes.
: > 
: > : A correction: 25% from the east (, I dunno if that's really Asian).
: > 
: > It is actually from the NORTH! From the Saamis who have lived close
: > and together with the so called Finns THOUSANDS OF YEARS.


: Here is a very short translation of some parts from an article, made by
: Irma Stenbäck according to interview of assistant professor Ulla-Maria
: Kulonen.

: Helsingin Sanomat January 10. 1997:

: The origin of the (Finnish) language clarifed in Science Days: 

: HALF OF THE LANGAGES OF THE HUMAN RACE THREATENED OF EXTINCTION

: ...

: Gene research has proved that the major part of people in the world is
: closer related to each other through genes than previously thought.  ...

: The origin of the Finnish language has according to comparative
: linguistic research noted to diverge from Uralic basic language 8 000
: years ago. 

: Though our langage came from east, genetically we are, according to
: Kulonen, europeans.

: "Researching blood groups gives a result that 75% of the origin of Finns
: is western and 25% eastern. The latest DNA analysis confirm this result
: of the origin of the Finns."  

: Jarmo: I would advise you to think twice before announcing "Bullshit".

Ok, it was a too strong expression. Sorry about it.

: Now, do we take Jarmo's expertice on this matter as superior compaired
: to scientists ( , or should we re-think this Jarmo's announcement;
: perhaps that has some relevance to Jarmo's comments).

I write it here:
Congressus Octavus Internationalis Fenno-Ugristum Jyva"skyla"
10.-15.9.1995 Summaria acroasium in sectionibus et symposiis
factarum:

The issue is very large but some examples:

Milton G. Nunez, Early Spread of Human Groups into Deglaciated
Northern Europe an Their relationship to Present Local Populations.

"The Saami ancestry was composed of mariginal peoples some of whom
at least had rather unique gene frequencies which still are
reflected among the majority of the present Saami populations."

The aforementioned means:They are neither "Asians" or "Indo-Europeans".

Nunez writes too:

"....according to the history and genealogical studie, there has
been a considerably introgession of genes to the Saamis from
the neighbouring majority populations"...

A comment: the exchange has had two way direction, not only
from "the Finns" and Indo-Europeans into the Saamis but from
the Saamis into the Finns and Indo-Europeans. When the Finns
and Saami have allways interacted very closely it is clear
that Finnish (and Karelians) have a lot of Saami genes.

Pekka Sammallahti Univ. of Oulu refers:

"The research into the genetic heritage of of European
populations is now reaching a stage where questions
raised by archeology and historical linguistics may be answered
to a certian extent. On the basis of nuclear DNA studies, Luigi
Cavalli-Sforza (Cavalli-Sforza) 1992b) regards the Saami as
*one of the founding populations of Europe*

(Read the aforementioned carefully, twice)

"Regarding the relative isolation of the Saami areas in the
northern extreme of Europe this comes as no suprise, and
it stands in harmony with the observation that Saami
linguistic evolution presupposes no outside impetus."

and...

"On other hand, it has been estimated that more than half
of the genetics of the Finns come from the south, i.e.
from the Indo-European populations of Central-Europe
and the rest is Fenno-Ugric heritage. When one compares
Finnish gene frequencies with those of the Saami
and the Swedes as presendted Aldur W. Erikson (Eriksson 1984)
the Finnsish frequencies normally fall between these
the two, and it is an obvious conclusion that this is the result
of the same strong influence of Germanic on the Pre-Finnic
which was also posited by historical linguistics."

(Comment:Finns are Indo-Europeanized Saamis)

Valeri Petrusev,Univ. of Yoshkar-Ola, Mari El
also points out:

"Uralic nations are amongst the oldest, most archaic groups
of Russian population"

In brief: Uralic peoples, that is Finno-Ugrians are a very
old "European" population who has inhabited the northern
parts of Europe, what we call now Scandinavia and Russia
long before the Indo-European expansion.

The genes now called "Asian" are in fact original "European
genes" and those people who are now called "Indo-Europeans"
are as much truly "European" as the present Indo-European
population of "America" is "American".

Seppo Lallukka writes about assimilation process of the 
Uralic peoples of Europe for instance.HU.

The genetic relationsships between the Finns and the Saamis.
Savontaus,Turku. Lahermo,Turku. Sistonen Helsinki. Sajantila
Munich also have in their studies made a conclusion
that Saami and Finnish/Karelian gene pool have similarites
compared to Indo-Europeans. I attended on her lecture and
remember it quite well.

Milton-Nunez who attended the same seminar pointed out
that the Saami should be considered as a race itself,
as an old European race. 

One can say in brief: Those people who are called
in ourdays "Finns" are Saamis who adopted agriculture
from the Indo-Europeans. And present day Saamis are
"Finns" who continued old occupations. That had
a strong effect on the language,too. 

: > It is strange when Finns forget deep Saami roots. WHY?
: > There is no Asian genes in the Finns but Saami genes.
: > And Saamis are "a race itself" genetically,
: > very old representing oldest European gene pool.

: Any reference? Or, is this again the same thing connected to your
: attatchment to bulls?

I cannot copy entire seminars but I have material enough not to
believe any folkloristic tales about "Finns" who arrived
from Volga. Or "Finns" who have "Asian" genes. It is folklore
and pleases only later arrived occupants like Russians,Swedes
and Norwegians who liked on the political reasons to cultivate
such beliefs. Comp. Estonia and SU/Russian policy of Estonia.

The fact is that the Finns, Estonians,Karelians have always lived
in Northern-Europe together with other Fenno-Ugric nations
like Nenets,Komis,Saamis and the Indo-European expansion
has extint many of the Pre-Uralic peoples during the process.

Those nations who "won" Finnic nations like Russians and Swedes
have then later written their history from their point of view
the way it pleases them best. Comp. American history from
the Indo-European point of view vs. natives of America.

regards,
jami




-- 
#In 1958,The Swedish School Administration repealed directives banning#
 # the speaking of Finnish language in Sweden's schools.However,some #
       # municipalities maintained restrictions until 1968 #

In article >,
Paul Kekai Manansala > wrote:
>In article >,
>    (Daniel von Brighoff) wrote:
>>In article >,
>>Paul Kekai Manansala > wrote:
>>>
>>>Most languages I have studied do not have "exceptionless" sound changes.
>>>There are always at least a few exceptions to every sound change that have
>>>to be subjectively explained away.
>>
>>There are always exceptions, but the point of having "exceptionless sound
>>changes" as the goal is that these should be very, very few in number.
>>Generally, it can be shown that most of the so-called "exceptions" are
>>actually borrowings from a closely-related dialect where different
>>"exceptionless" changes apply.  
>
>In some language groups that may be true, especially when there are historical
>sources for these languages.  
[rest deleted]

	What do you mean by the term "historical sources"?  If you are
referring to texts, I fail to see how these influence borrowing to any
great degree before the advent of widespread literacy.  What historical
texts *can* do is make it easier to trace the borrowings, by demonstrating
approximately where and when the changes took place and where and when
words affected by these changes were borrowed by other dialects.

	I think this rule is true of all language groups.  Certainly, it
is one of things that has made comparative reconstruction of the
putative Altaic family so difficult: most of the languages involved
(Mongolic, Turkic, Tungusic, Korean, and Japanese) have been in close
contact for millenia and borrowed extensively from each other over time.
The further one tries to go back, the harder it is to distinguish true
common roots from ancient borrowings. 
-- 
	 Daniel "Da" von Brighoff    /\          Dilettanten
	)  /__\         erhebt Euch
				   /____\      gegen die Kunst!

In article >, 
 says...
>
>Could you help me in finding lids of my family.
>
>My father's name is POLONYI AUREL BELA borned october 15 1913 in
>TISZAPALKONYA.
>His father POLONYI ANTAL
>His mother GIBAS ANNA
>
>Also the family of POLONYI MIHALY december 26 1923 in NAGYVARAD 
(Romania).
>
>Is there a more concerned newsgroup?
>
>english/french/ungarn  angol/franciaul/magyar
>
>My adress  
>
>Thanks.
>
>Polonyi Roland
>
>
Roland, I see your posting popping up from time to time on this, as well 
as on the Hungary list.  The only help I can offer is that the Mormons 
have the entire Austro-Hungarian geneology.  They have representation in 
many cities, try to approach them.  Good luck.  Agnes

You say:
   "I love the flowers" 
     but you gather them.
   "I love the trees" 
     but you cut down them.
   "I love birds" 
     but you close them.
   "I love animals" 
     but you eat them.

    I am now afraid.
    You say to me:
    "I love you."

I would be pleased if somebody writes to me. 

I live in Vienna, Austria.

As this thread really came alive and started moving
fast, I'll try to reply to several comments in many
postings in a single article here...

> ---------------------------------------------------
In > Markku Huttu-Hiltunen wrote:

>Murat Kalinyaprak wrote:
>
>> "Are there, or are there not similarities between
>> "the Sumerian and Finnish, Hungarian, Turkish and
>> "Mongolian words in the list that was posted...?"
> 
> I suppose you haven't seen mine or Pertti Hietaranta's
> comments on that list. Those countless errors make that
> list totally worthless when trying to prove connection
> between those languages. 

Yes, I have seen both of your comments about 15-16 words
altogether. Since I don't speak Finnish, I really can't
comment on them. However, a few of your counter arguments
gave me the impression that you were splitting hair. Nobody
is expecting to find correspondances between current and
ancient languages with exact meanings and pronunciations.

I have looked up some of the words you guys questioned in
an on-line dictionary on the Internet. Some words I found
seemed like they could be even better matches than the ones
questioned. But the dictionary gave no information beyond
indicating whether those words were nouns, verbs, etc.
Without knowing Finnish, I wouldn't dare base any arguments
on just the looks of those words. But I have the impression
that, if some Finnish speakers tried as hard as you have in
the opposite direction, they could possibly come up with
even better correspondances.

It's seems as though the original writer didn't know all the
languages he was comparing and used everyday dictionaries
to look up words. The Turkish words given had also some
mismatches and borrow words among them. But a few readers
who knew Turkish (including myself) offered corrections and
improvements to the list. If a Sumerian word's meaning was
given as "mind" and one disregards all correspondances that
may mean "think, remember, momorize, intellect, brain, etc."
one may conclude that there are no correspondances. But this
would be unreasonable because one couldn't even translate from
one current language into another with the same restrictions.

>Case closed, untill someone has something better to present.
>MHH

For some of us, the quest has barely begun. If it's already
closed for you, then you may retire from the discussion and
live happily ever after... :)

> ---------------------------------------------------
In > Lennart Regebro wrote:

 (Murat Kalinyaprak) wrote:
>
>>The initial list, posted by Peter Chong, compared
>>70 Sumerian words to Finnish, Hungarian, Turkish,
>>and Mongolian, showing what many people would see
>>to be similarities between those languages...
>
>1. Many people (including me) did not see many similarities.

Nothing wrong with different people seeing the same
things differently... :)

>Some words were similar to languages outside the compared
>group too, and therefore rather uninteresting.

Your using the word "too" here implies that there were
similarities to begin with... :) And your usage of the
word "some" acknowledges that this is a "relative" view.
When comparing languages "A" and "B" to language "C",
if "some" means 100 similarities between "A" and "C" but
only 10 similarities between "B" and "C", one can state
that language "A" is closer (more similar) to language
"C" than language "B"...

>Many of the 'finnish' words were inaccurate, so the list was
>not very reliable.

There were other mistakes in other languges as well and
some people suggested correction/improvements. Personally,
I never got the impression that the list was claimed to be
reliable. It rather seemd like the writer presented it as
an entry point to a subject that interested him...

>2. It is impossible to just compare languages like this. You
>need to know what kind of changes in the sound and the grammar
>has occurred in the languages. ....

This is true and people interested in the subject probably
do studies in those areas too. As it was, the original article
was several hudred lines long. Perhaps, one wouldn't expect a
newsgroup article to cover all bases and come to an indisputable
conclusion on such a subject...

>In short: A table like this is meaningless. It doesn't prove or
>disprove anything.

I would guess that the intent was to raise interest and start
a discussion on the subject. It sure did attract mine and many
other readers' interest...  

>>As people having an allergy to such a possibility
>>often do, you and a couple others displayed their
>>"pre-wired" reaction and jumped to dismiss it, by
>>picking on a single word out of that list...
>
>The picking out of word were used to show mistakes in the list.
>Some mistakes is of course unavoidable, but if you can find many
>errors in just the finnish words, the other languages may be just
>as erratic, which throws doubts onto the list as a whole.

My comment was about people picking out the "father" word
and going wild with it to discharge whatever they were
holding in their chests ("Sun Languages Theory" and all
that irrelevant garbage...)

>Use a more accurate list next time.

It wasn't my idea to begin with but I will do my best to
contribute to it whatever I can... With other interested
people doing the same, the list may get more accurate in
time. If only you can wait for it... :)

>>But what happened to the rest of the words...?
>
>The rest of the words didn't seem alike.

If you could have pointed them out specificly, it would have
been much more useful to people on either side of the subject...

>>"Are there, or are there not similarities between 
>>"the Sumerian and Finnish, Hungarian, Turkish and
>>"Mongolian words in the list that was posted...?"
>
>No. Which of course is competely irrelevant.

Then, would you mind telling us why did you bother to involve
yourself with an irrelevant subject...? :)

> ---------------------------------------------------
In > Daniel von Brighoff wrote:

>In > Murat Kalinyaprak wrote:
>
>>.................................................
>>"Are there, or are there not similarities between 
>>"the Sumerian and Finnish, Hungarian, Turkish and
>>"Mongolian words in the list that was posted...?"
>
>You're missing a crucial element of language reconstruction: They
>have to be *regular* similarities, the results of *exceptionless*
>sound changes.

Would you mind giving us an example of a *exceptionless*
example to language reconstruction...?

>Anybody can find resemblances between sets of words; finding
>patterns of correspondences is considerably tougher. Why is Mr.
>Chong starting with modern forms anyway? If he really wants to
>prove a relationship, why doesn't he compare Sumerian to
>reconstructed Proto-Finno-Ugric and Proto-Altaic?

I agree with your suggestion completely. I don't want to
speak for Mr. Chong but his posting could have been merely
to share an amateur interest in the subject. I hope that
there would be some tolerance for "amatuers" (like me) to
discuss subjects related to linguistics without actually
being a linguist. Not to offend anybody, but there are a
lot of people out there who don't even see linguistics as
anything more than a "hobby science". (and a very biased
and subjective one at that...)

>[snip]
>>"Are there, or are there not similarities between 
>>"the Sumerian and Finnish, Hungarian, Turkish and
>>"Mongolian words in the list that was posted...?"
>
>Yes.

Thank you, you made my day... :)

>>"If there are some similarities, can you find and
>>"demostrate equal amounts of similarities between
>>"Sumerian and German, Spanish, Zulu, Cherokee,
>>"Andes and Kurdish (as you claimed)...?"
>
>What would this prove?

We should really ask that from the person who brought those
up... Obviously, he brought them up to at least "disprove"
something. As far as the word list that has been the subject
of discussion here, I would say that it could possibly "prove"
(or "disprove":) that Ural-Altaic languages have more of those
similarities than these languages he mentioned...

My point in dwelling on it is this: one can argue in good will
that the similarity list offered was not conclusive enough but
when some cocky smarties make claims like the one above, some
of us like to dare them to put up or shut up... And just the
fact that they can't follow up on their cocky claims does
ideed "prove" something, doesn't it...? :)

> ---------------------------------------------------
In > Patrick Chew wrote:

>Murat Kalinyaprak wrote:
>
>> "Are there, or are there not similarities between
>> "the Sumerian and Finnish, Hungarian, Turkish and
>> "Mongolian words in the list that was posted...?"
>
>	sure.. they're some surface similarities...

This could possibly be a start, couldn't it...?

>	however, surface similarities do *not* prove/solidify genetic
>relatedness. Here's a case in using somethign simple, like numbers
>(other linguists, please bear with...):

Go ahead, knock yourself off... We are used to being patronized
by "linguists"... :)

>	Mand	Cant	Tois	Kor	Jap	Thai
>
>1	?i	yat	yIt	il	it$i	ni"N/-et
>2	@r	yi	Nei	i	ni	sO:N/yi-
>....................
>	hrm... well.. there sems to be more than a surface
>similarity here.. especially when one takes into account
>previous stages of the languages:

I get the point about "surface similarities" based on borrow
words, etc... Now, could you please help us in a constructive
way in weeding out such "surface similarities" in the word-list
that is being discussed here...?

>	so, when people look at your list of 70 words and don't 
>whole-heartedly embrace the notion of those languages being
>related (since previous in-depth studies have shown to a large
>extent that the earlier premise that they were related is not
>the case), they have reason. surface similarity with some possible
>fudging *may* produce some possibilities in relatedness.. it's not
>an end-all sign that those languages are related. 

I hear what you are saying but other "conclusions" based on
in-depth studies were later dropped or corrected. Also, to my
knowledge, no in-depth study has yet linked Sumerian to any
other language conclusively either...

Are we to say that some people came to this planet, spoke
Sumerian for a while and then left...? It's only natural
that people (amateurs or linguists) will continue to be
intrigued by this subject and keep searching for answers
and connections...

As to "fudging", it is true that there is some of that but
how does one avoid "fudging" in liguistics anyway...? Even
when ancient alphabets are decoded, how does one tell with
any certainity which sounds existed in an ancient language
and which signs corresponded to which sounds? (Linguists,
please bear with "amateur" questions like this... :)

> uff.. i just lost my train of thought, but this should suffice....

We appreciate your effort to contribute to the debate...

> ---------------------------------------------------
In > Rodger Whitlock wrote:

>  (Daniel von Brighoff) wrote:
>> Murat Kalinyaprak > wrote:
>>
>>>"If there are some similarities, can you find and
>>>"demostrate equal amounts of similarities between
>>>"Sumerian and German, Spanish, Zulu, Cherokee,
>>>"Andes and Kurdish (as you claimed)...?"
>>
>>What would this prove?
>
>Mr. Kalinyaprak's reasoning strongly reminds me of the problem
>many people have with statistical correlation: they confuse
>correlation with cause and effect, and overlook that some
>correlation arises by pure chance.

I'm aware of the problems with statistics and chance. But I
am sure there is a lot more I can learn about them... :)

Would you mind telling us up to what amount or percentage of
statistical correlation may be dismissed as chance and what
kind of numbers would alert you take a more in-depth look at
them as possibly indicators of something beyond chance...?

What I don't understand is, we have a small but a concrete
list of words but everybody is eager to make rather general
remarks. Why not look at the list and tell us that there is
XX.XX percent statistical correlation. Then take German,
Spanish, Zulu, Cherokee, Andes and Kurdish languages and
show us that those languages has the same percentage of
statistical correlation to Sumerian or for that matter any
other language of your choice which has not been classified
in their own language family...?

The bottom line is, the word list in question may not amount
to all that much, but in my opinion, all the remarks made
about it so far don't even come close to offering a fraction
of the substance that the list offers! At least it is something
that one can look at and try to make something out of...

MK

willy, the canadian pseudo poet and artificial artist wrote:

>Canadians are unable to accept the fact that Canada is a country
>with two nations in it. Two nations. When that fact is accepted
>as fact, then everything else can flow from it. I personally
>oppose seperation.

Two nations? Which are those two? The algonquins and the anglos? I 
thought the country had a few hundred indian nations in it, who consider 
themselves separate. The inuits?

Gabor

Azt nem tepsibe sütik és te is tudsz csinalni! Ha tudsz kenyeret sütni.

SRiholm > skrev i inlägg
>...
> EN IS SZERETEM A LANGOST KULD NEKEM  WEGY TEPSIVEL........
>

PLEASE, PLEASE don't pay anyone to "process" your visa lottery 
application for you. You can send them in directly yourself, it couldn't 
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I work for a non-profit refugee resettlement agency, and every year at 
lottery time scammers spring up like grass to take advantage of green 
card hopefuls. DON'T FALL PREY!!

If you need to know how to submit an application, send me an e-mail and 
I'll gladly explain.

Kara Larson
Assistant Director, Communications
Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society



MACKO wrote:
> 
> Nobody said that it is not free.
> I'm offering services, and it is a legitimate business. Since there are lot
> of people who is unable to fill out a simple application form, (last year
> 1.9 million applications were denied for improper filing), this kind of
> servic have a great public demand.
> On the other hand INS charges $5.10 for the instruction only.
> 
> George Kovacs > wrote in article
> >...
> > In article > "MACKO"
> > writes:
> > >From: "MACKO" >
> > >Subject: Greencard Lottery
> > >Date: 5 Jan 1997 05:14:50 GMT
> >
> > >Application preparation for the Greencard Lottery program
> > >for the lowest price:$20 per person.
> > >Visit our page at http://www.netcom.com/~macko/dv98.html
> > >Zöldkártya jelentkezés 20 dollár New Yorkból.
> >
> > Don't send money to anyone. The Greencard Lottery is free. Paying a
> lawyer or
> > agent DOES NOT increase your chences.
> >

Froilan Vispo <"vispofr"@epo.gov.on.caDELETE THIS (Froilan Vispo)>
wrote:

>At last, the English translation to "Szerelem, Szerelem" from THE
>ENGLISH PATIENT.  This is the record that Almasy plays for Katharine and
>jokingly translates into a song about a Hungarian count who wanders
>without purpose until he meets an English harpie.

>My thanks to Doug for taking the time.

>> Love,
>> why don't you blossom on the top of each tree,
>> so that every boy and girl could pick you?
>> I have already found a blossom
>> and lost it again.
>> What wouldn't I do
>> to have my true love back again.
>> I would drain the sea for her
>> and pick the pearls from the sea-bed
>> for her necklace.
>> 
>> From the CD "Prisoner's Song" (Rabnota)
>> Marta Sebestyen and Muzsikas

>Also on the soundtrack of THE ENGLISH PATIENT.  Marta Sebestyen performs
>on at least two other tracks on it.

>Froilan


I might add that you can listen to a RealAudio sample of Szerelem
Szerelem at http://www.rykodisc.com/3/catalog/artist/158.html

In addition to being on "The Prisoner's Song" (available on
Rykodisc/Hannibal in the US) there is another version on Marta's album
APOCRYPHA.

Self-servingly yours,

Lars Murray
Rykodisc