I have the opportunity of stopping in Budapest on the way back from a 
business trip to Moscow August 11 through 14.  This is apparently during 
the Grand Prix.  What is the city like then?  IS it crowded enough to be 
exciting or so crowded it is not fun at all?  Is trafic disrupted so you 
cannot get around?
If I go, I would like to shop for English language books on Hungarian 
history, culture, ethnography; musical scores for Hungarian/Gypsy folk 
music; and recorded Hungarian/Gypsy folk and Tanchas music- - prefer 
CDs.  Any specific suggestions for where to look?  
Thanks for your input.
Chuck Bender

Szia !
	My name is Christos. I am 23 years old, male, and I come from
Cyprus ( you know that small island in Mediteranean !)
I've been in Hungary once and I really had good time there.  I even
started learning the language ( that was really tough !)
Anyway, I'm looking for penpals from Hungary (snail or e-mail).
My interests include drawing and painting, photography, swimming
and diving, fishing, travelling (when I have the money and time !) and
meeting people.
I'm waiting for your letter !

Christos

Bob Hammarberg ) wrote:
: My guidebook to Hungary says that you need a passport-size photo for the 
: Budapest travelcards - but this is  Brit publication, and I have no idea how 
: big a Brittish passport photo is.

: So what are the required dimensions for such a photo, and how much are the 
: hetibe'rlet and the ke'theti be'rlet nowadays?

There is a three-day tourist travelcard, for which a photo is not needed. 
It was 560 forints I think last time I was in BP.

Much better value (although all season tickets are criminally cheap by 
Western standards) are the one-week, two-week and monthly travelcards. 
For these, you need to get a holder made for you which includes a 
perfectly ordinary passport photo. You can get these at larger stations 
like Moszkva Ter. Then you buy the little season ticket to put in it. A 
monthly season ticket for the whole network is less than 10 dollars.

Dave
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
David Evans                                         Worcester College, Oxford
_____________________________________________________________________________
Orange mobile: 0973-418678                             Messages: 01865-278300
International: +44-973-418678                  International: +44-1865-278300

Keywords:

Szervusztok Magyarok !!
Kiva'ncsi volne'k, hogy ha'nyan vagyunk magyarul besze'lo'' egyetemista'k, 
akik ne'ha bene'ynek ide! E'n Muenchenben tanulok a tu-n mateket gazdasa'g
melle'kszakkal elsoe e'ven.
Muenchenben vannakmagyarok, de az egyetemen me'g nem tala'lkoztam egyel sem.
Ha netala'n valaki bete'vedne ebbe a csoportba, irjon be egy pa'r sort, vagy
irjon egyenessen nekem!!

              

                          Eloed

In article > Janos Szamosfalvi,
 writes:
>Whether Sumer belonged to this group -- it's a very tough question
>and no one knows the answer.    This Sumer Magyar relationships is 
>like the Hun Hungarian relationship.

What I've heard that the Sumer once possibly functioned as an inter-
ethnic language in middle east between different nations the way
Suaheli functions in Africa. The traders might've used it and thats
how the Hungarian tribes could contact with the language *if* that
time they lived  around there which many scientists strongly 
dispute.

Tamás

In article >  (J
anos Szamosfalvi) writes:
>CLARY Olivier ) wrote:
>:In article >  
(Janos Szamosfalvi) writes:
>:>such as the words for water.   Most of them start with the sound [v]
>:[...] So let us rather say: most European languages.
>No.   I saw this in a movie (shown in Ling 200) and they showed a map 
>vith the various words of water on the  map.   They were also in Africa, 
>SE. Asia, and Australia.

If it is only about a [v]-like sound, then anyway we are not talking of
language superfamilies but rather of the way how many roots have originally
some descriptive strength through their sound, in a universal way. Let us
wait for comments coming from sci.lang, to which I crosspost.

-- Olivier

1995 ESVA Denmark 

               1995 European Symposium on 
                 Voluntary Associations


Voluntary Associations and 
Communication Management










Odense
10-15 October, 1995

                    1995 ESVA Denmark
                            
               Voluntary Associations and 
                Communication Management 
                            


The International ESVA Foundation organizes in cooperation with the County of F
unen, Department
of Culture and Adult Education, Denmark, a symposium on the management of commu
nication
by voluntary associations.  


VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATIONS

Voluntary associations are nonprofit organizations established by people who jo
in voluntarily. Such
associations constitute the civil society that links the private and personal w
orld of the individual
to the public arena. They are essential for the quality of both individual and 
collective life.  

Voluntary associations perform a variety of functions. They are often to the fo
re with innovations
which are later adopted by governments; they follow central and local governmen
ts critically and
exert pressure upon these with regard to the performance, expansion or improvem
ent of their
services; they can support particular values; they can encourage the participat
ion of citizens and
support the interests of social, ethnic and other minority groups. Voluntary or
ganizations themselves
can perform certain services for which governments will not or cannot assume re
sponsibility.
Voluntary associations are, furthermore, simultaneously schools and bastions of
 democracy. They
offer people the possibility to participate in self-management, as well as a fr
amework to exchange
information, to educate each other and to form autonomously opinions on politic
al issues. 

Voluntary associations play, furthermore, an important role in public discourse
s on norms, values,
policy options and policies. Generally speaking, they contribute to our ideas a
bout and political
decisions with regard to social problems by creating and diffusing knowledge as
 well as information,
and by stimulating the development of consensus.  

ESVA

The European Symposium on Voluntary Associations (ESVA) is an international net
work of scholars
and others interested in voluntary associations that furthers the exchange of k
nowledge and
information with regard to the voluntary or third sector. It came into being as
 a result of Dutch-
Hungarian cooperation that started years before the collapse of communism. A ma
nifestation of
this cooperation was a Hungarian-Dutch symposium that took place in 1984 in Hun
gary. Since
then bilateral symposia have been held in Hungary and in the Netherlands. The f
irst European
symposium took place in 1989 in Hungary and was followed by symposia in the Net
herlands (1990)
the Soviet Union (1991), Poland (1992), Estonia (1993) and Romania (1994). Prec
eding the
conference in Romania, the tenth anniversary of the ESVA network has been celeb
rated in
Budapest, Hungary. 
ESVA conferences have been attended by participants from Europe, Australia, Can
ada and the
United States. The ESVA was, furthermore, involved in the organization of confe
rences concerning
youth information in the new Europe (the Netherlands, 1991) and ethnic conflict
s and cooperation
(1991 United States, 1992 Russia). 

INTERNATIONAL ESVA FOUNDATION

The International ESVA Foundation (IESVA) is a nonprofit organization under Net
herlands law,
having its secretariat in Hungary and a board consisting of persons from differ
ent countries. It has
been established to sustain the activities of the ESVA, notably by the furtheri
ng of 
*    research and education concerning nonprofit, voluntary and philanthropic a
ssociations, the
     so-called third sector; 
*    the transfer and/or dissemination of knowledge and information concerning 
the third sector;
*    communication and/or cooperation among researchers, scholars, practitioner
s, policymakers
     and others concerning third sector matters.

EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE

During the 1994 ESVA in Romania an Executive Committee has been charged of the 
preparation
of the 1995 ESVA Denmark. It consists of
Dr. J. Katus (Chair, University of Leiden, the Netherlands)
Dr. A. Cancescu (President of AOS, Brasov, Romania)
Dr. J. Dewey (Manchester Metropolitan University, United Kingdom)
Dr. Ch. Groenholm (President of the Society for Culture and Education, Finland)
Mr. K. Habekost (Cultural and Educational Committee, County of Funen, Denmark)
Mr. G. Rogala (Association of Polish Adult Educators)
Mr. B. Stephensen (President of the VOF Romania Foundation, Denmark)
Dr. A. Thomas (Ontario Institute for Studies in Education, Canada)
Mr. J. Toth (Hungarian Folk High School Society, Budapest, Hungary)

CALL FOR PAPERS

The role of voluntary associations in public discourses greatly depends on the 
effectiveness of
their communication with their publics and with the mass media. Compared with g
overnments and
enterprises they are in this respect, however, at a disadvantage as they lack t
he necessary financial
means to buy expertise. This applies especially to smaller voluntary associatio
ns because big ones,
like trade unions, have relatively great material resources to buy expertise an
d to develop effective
communication strategies. Therefore, during the plenary session of the 1994 ESV
A Hungary
Romania one agreed on communication management as central theme of the next con
ference.
So participants of the 1995 ESVA Denmark are invited to present papers (maximum
 10 printed
pages) dealing with communication between voluntary associations and their soci
al environment.
Attention should be paid to, among others, influencing public opinion; lobbying
; ethics; press
relations; methods of consensus mobilization; cases illustrating the creation a
nd diffusion of
knowledge and information with regard to social problems; cooperation with gove
rnment or other
agencies; networking; application of modern communication technology; etc. 

PUBLICATION

A selection of the 1995 ESVA papers will be published. Editors: J. Katus (Leide
n University, The
Netherlands), K. Habekost (Cultural and Educational Committee, County of Funen,
 Denmark) and
J. T˘th (Hungarian Folk High School Society, Budapest, Hungary)

PARTICIPATION

The 1995 ESVA Denmark aims at the exchange of knowledge, information and experi
ence between
scholars and other interested persons from different countries. In the lectures
 the emphasis lies
on communication management but information on the functioning of voluntary ass
ociations in
general is also relevant. Moreover, exchange of experiences, knowledge and info
rmation takes
place in different ways. Therefore, presentation of a paper is not a preconditi
on to participation. 
About sixty participants are expected from different countries in and outside E
urope. Companions
ate welcome, too. However, there will be no separate cultural program for them.
 

PROGRAM

Keynote lectures will be discussed in plenary sessions. Papers of participants 
will be presented
and discussed in workshops. The final program is to be fixed after the receipt 
of the abstracts. 
The provisional program is as follows: 


TUESDAY, 10 OCTOBER
                   Arrival
16.00 - 18.00      Registration
                   Dalum Landbrugskole
                   Odensevej 45
                   5260 Odense S
                   Phone: +45 66 13 21 30
                   Fax: +45 66 13 23 31

20.00              RECEPTION BY FUNEN COUNTY 
                   Opening
                   Mrs. Karen Nohr
                   Mayor of Funen County
              

WEDNESDAY, 11 OCTOBER
08.00 - 09.00      Breakfast
09.00 - 13.00      Visit to Odense
13.00 - 14.00      Lunch
16.00              Tea

16.30              Welcome 
                   
                   VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATIONS AND COMMUNICATION
                   MANAGEMENT
                   Discussion

19.00              Dinner

20.30 - 22.30      Workshops
                   

THURSDAY, 12 OCTOBER
08.00 - 09.00      Breakfast
09.15 - 10.45      VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATIONS AND PUBLIC DISCOURSE
                   1. Voluntary associations in post-communist countries
                   2. Voluntary associations in West-European countries
10.45 - 11.15      Coffee break
11.15 - 12.15      Discussion

12.30 - 13.30      Lunch

15.00 - 17.00      Workshops

17.00 - 19.00      Meeting representants of local voluntary organizations and m
edia: 
                   LOCAL EXPERIENCES WITH COMMUNICATION MANAGEMENT

19.00              Dinner

20.30 - 22.30      Workshops


FRIDAY, 13 OCTOBER
08.00 - 09.00      Breakfast

10.00 - 10.45      VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATIONS AND COMMUNICATION NETWORKS
                   Discussion

10.45 - 11.15      Coffee break

11.15 - 12.00      VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATIONS AND THE LOCAL MEDIA
                   Discussion

12.30 - 13.30      Lunch

14.00              Excursion to Fyns Hoved

19.00              Dinner

20.30 - 22.00      Workshops


SATURDAY, 14 OCTOBER
08.00 - 09.00      Breakfast

09.15 - 10.00      VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATIONS AND THE NEW MEDIA
                   Discussion

10.00 - 10.30      Coffee break

10.30 - 12.30      Workshops

12.30 - 13.30      Lunch

14.00 - 18.00      Workshops

19.00 - 20.00      CLOSING PLENARY SESSION
                   Panel Discussion: Lessons and Prospects
                   Closing 

20.00              Farewell party


SUNDAY, 15 OCTOBER
07.00 - 10.00      Breakfast
08.00              Departure 


LANGUAGE

The conference language is English.

ABSTRACTS

The deadline for the abstract is on 1 July, 1995. 
It should be addressed to the Symposium Secretariat. Abstracts of the papers to
 be submitted
to the 1995 ESVA Denmark must be typed on 1 A4 page, lay out as follows:
TITLE
NAME(S) OF THE AUTHOR(S)
REQUIRED PRESENTATION DEVICE
ABSTRACT

SECRETARIAT

The IESVA Secretariat in Budapest functions as the Secretariat of the 1995 ESVA
 Denmark.
All correspondence concerning registration as well as the abstract should be ad
dressed to:

Mrs. Marta Mihalyfi
IESVA Secretariat
P.O. Box 111
1922 Budapest
Hungary
Tel/fax: +361 201 4928
E-mail: 


REGISTRATION

The registration deadline is on 1 September, 1995.
All registration requests must be made on the enclosed registration form (one f
orm per person).
Please feel free to make photocopies if needed.

CONGRESS VENUE 

The 1995 ESVA Denmark takes place in Dalum Landbrugsskole in Odense. It is situ
ated in a park
a few kilometres from the town's centre, and offers modern conference facilitie
s in a historical
setting. The participants will be accommodated in comfortable single rooms and 
have among others
sauna at their disposal. 

PARTICIPATION FEE

The Board of the International ESVA Foundations strives for the furthering of p
articipation from
post-communist and developing countries. Therefore, the participation fee for a
 number of
participants from these countries is reduced. 
The participation fees, including accommodation, meals and cultural program are
 as follows:
*    Participants from post-communist and third world countries: US $ 75.
*    Companions from post-communist and third world countries: US $ 150.
*    Participants from other countries: US $ 500.
*    Companions from other countries: US $ 500.

PAYMENT

Participation fee is to be paid in US dollars by check or international money o
rder sent to the
IESVA secretariat enclosed with the registration form. Only in case of annulati
on before 1
September, 1995, can the check of international money order be returned.      
                      1995 ESVA Denmark
                           REGISTRATION FORM

              Mail or e-mail before 1 September, 1995 to
Mrs. Marta Mihalyfi
International ESVA Foundation
P.O. Box 111  1922 Budapest   Hungary
E-mail: 

                                   
                      (Use block capital or type)


Family name 

Given name 
 
Sex 

Institute/organization 


Address 



Tel 
Fax 
E-mail

Title of eventual paper to be presented  





Name of eventual companion 

Date of arrival                                                       

Date of departure 




Signature                                                         Date

02 ) wrote:

:  (Clive) writes:

: >i was wondering if someone could translate this song for me, it's from
: >east's album ja'te'kok (games)... my knowledge of hungarian is
: >limited and i'm having some difficulty... it's entitled
: >messze a felho"kkel (far away with the clouds).  thanks in advance.

[translation deleted]

: >i have a sketchy idea of what it's about, but would appreciate
: >a good translation.. :)

:  I won't guarantee this one is good. :-) 

sounds good to me, much better than i could ever have managed... more
poetic flair i think... :)      thanks.

:  Cheers,
:  Miklos Prisznyak   (KFKI RMKI Theor. Dep. Budapest, Hungary H-1525 P.O.B 49)

regards,

Clive

In article > Teodor A. Lungu,
 writes:
> The greatest number of victims ascribed to a murderess was 610,

error 1: app. 300 murder were discussed in the trial.

>She had been walled up in her room for 3 1/2 years after being
>found guilty.

error 2: She simply was not allowed to leave her castle, thats
all. 

error 3: She died not long after the sentence. The trial was
4 year long (1610-1614) as a matter of fact and during she
was in custody the above descripted way in her castle.

error 4: Blood-bathing

Tamás

Aquatine ) wrote:
: "What can we do against such a brainwashed hateful organization? Our land
: needs peace, their kids need education. But PKK kills teachers..."

: The Turks can get out of Cyprus.

: The Turks can apologise to the Armenians.

: The Turks can appologise for their complicency in the attempted genocide
: of Jews.

 Hang on here, read the history books before you throw serious acusations
every where. It was only turkey and the Muslim world who took in the Jews
fleeing the Spanish enquisition.


: Let's face it...it is real hard to feel any sympathy for the Turks.

In article > "JELIKO" > writes
:
> [...] the Sumerian symbol for "to hear" 
> which is a fish, in Hungarian (for those who do not know it) the words are 
> *hal* for "fish" and *hall* for to "hear". [...]

Hungarian _hal_ "fish" is from (reconstructed, this is what the * means)
Finno-Ugric _*kala_, Hungarian _hall_ "to hear" is from Finno-Ugric _*kule_
with influence of old Hungarian _hadl_ from (Finno-?)Ugric _*kunta_ + -l suffix
"to notice". Finnish cognates are resp. _kala_ and _kuulla_ + _kuunnella_.
A similar sounding is not guaranteed in Finno-Ugric languages (and even in
those close to Hungarian). And anyway this looks more like a legend: what
writing? can we decipher it and really know some character means both a fish
and to hear? or is it just a character that vaguely resembles a fish but
might be a deformation of something else?

-- Olivier

In article >  (J
anos Szamosfalvi) writes:
>They did, however, came up with words that similar in most languages, 
>such as the words for water.   Most of them start with the sound [v]
>and they somehow deduced that the original word was `wede'.

This is not "most languages" but only Indo-European and Uralic families,
resp. _*wed-_ (hence Slavic _voda_, Latin _unda_ then French _onde_,
_abonder_, _inonder_ etc, Greek _hydr-_, Germanic then English _water_,
_wet_ and _otter_) and _*Bete__ in the reconstructed mother languages, so
that it is one of the reasons why a very early contact or even a common
origin might be suspected between the two (a bigger family encompassing
Hungarian and English!) on a scientific basis, together with other things
like the persons *m,*t,*s (in Hungarian men -> e'n, te, something reduced
to o", and also -m, -d, -i and -a/e; in English and French forms like
my,thy,he->his and mon,ton,son, etc)

So let us rather say: most European languages.

-- Olivier

This guy is just accepting bids for lowest price. 
"Please calculate everything and present me on the silver plate..."

In >  (Alexei
Pavlov) writes: 
>
>
>This guy is just accepting bids for lowest price. 
>"Please calculate everything and present me on the silver plate..."
>
> 
>

there is no archiological evidence of Hungarians or proto-Hungarians
ever lived near each other. There is evidence of contact between the
Huns and the Hungarians in the Ural area following the destruction of
the Hun empire in East Central Europe. Not even that fact proves that
the two peoples were related, intermixed etc. We do not have such
evidence re Sumerians. 
Let us leave this historical dreams to the dreamers.

Ann Arbor-ban lakom, de csok a nyarban. Szeretnek magyarul jobban
beszelni. Ha magyar tudja tanitoni, kuldje egy kis levelet nekem, legyen
szives:  

Minden jot...

I'm living in Ann Arbor for the summer. I would like to improve my
Hungarian. If you can teach Hungarian, please send a short note to me:


Regards...

 (Clive) writes:

>i was wondering if someone could translate this song for me, it's from
>east's album ja'te'kok (games)... my knowledge of hungarian is
>limited and i'm having some difficulty... it's entitled
>messze a felho"kkel (far away with the clouds).  thanks in advance.

>Messze a felho"kkel
>-------------------

>Az e'n felh"oim ba'ra'nyfelho"k
>Fehe'r lepke tu:ndo:klo"
>Vigye'l engem a felho"k ko:ze'
>Ott me'ly a csend e's madarak sza'llnak

>A'lmok vigyetek, fogja'tok meg ke't kezem
>Adjatok nekem sza'rnyakat, had repu:ljek
>Messze a felho"kkel

>Felho"k ko:zt fent, e'g s fo:ld ko:zo:tt
>Lepke ha'ta'n sze'du:lten sza'llok
>Megige'z a fe'ny, mely arcomhoz e'r
>Vibra'lo ke'k a va'llamon ta'ncol

>A'lmok vigyetek, fogyja'tok meg ke't kezem
>Adjatok nekem sza'rnyakat, had repu:ljek
>Messze a felho"kkel

 
 Far away with the clouds
-------------------------

 My clouds are fleecy clouds,
 White butterfly, resplendent,
 Take me amongst the clouds,
 There silence is deep and birds fly 
 
 Dreams, carry me, hold both my hands,
 Give me wings, let me fly
 Far away with the clouds

 Among clouds, high up, between heaven and earth
 I'm flying on a butterfly's back, feeling giddy
 Spells me the light that reaches out to my face
 Flashing blue dances on my shoulders

 Dreams, carry me, hold both my hands,
 Give me wings, let me fly
 Far away with the clouds
 
>i have a sketchy idea of what it's about, but would appreciate
>a good translation.. :)

 I won't guarantee this one is good. :-) 

>clive mccaig

 Cheers,

-- 
 Pm
>----
 Miklos Prisznyak   (KFKI RMKI Theor. Dep. Budapest, Hungary H-1525 P.O.B 49)
                     WWW page:    http://sgi30.rmki.kfki.hu/~prisz/prisz.html

Ken Bacso ) wrote:
: Hello All--

: My father is finally going to have some limited net access.  He will have a 
: freenet account that will allow him to have some limited email.  He is 
: native Hungarian and is interested in poetry and politics as well as 
: anything else about Hungary.  Is there a good email list for him that would 
: only have a few good messages (news reports or whatever).  He probably won't 
: have time to check his mail all the time but it would be nice for him to get 
: around 5 messages a week on Hungary.
Yess! he must send an email to , there will find a good help 
about fine mailing lists!

 : Thanks for your help!

: Kenneth Bacso

Bye
Home'r