In article >, Joe Szalai
> declaring victory while getting the hell
out of a Vietnam of his own making sez:

>I won't.  But really, Sam, I thought this debate was going to end with a
>bang, not a whimper.  Better luck next time you try to pin me down.
>
>Joe Szalai
>
As a theorist, you can't win. You're an even worse propagandist. But you
do execute the old cut-and-run pretty well. I won't wish you better luck
next time because you'd simply squander it.
Sam Stowe

I've always heard that one way to get some insight into another culture is
to examine what people in that culture find funny. So how about posting
some Hungarian jokes on here, gang? Only do it in English, if you don't
mind. And you might want to accompany your humorous posting with some
thoughts of your own about the differences between what Hungarians find
funny and what Americans, Canadians, Brits, etc. find funny.
Sam Stowe

In article >,  (Stowewrite)
wrote:

> I've always heard that one way to get some insight into another culture is
> to examine what people in that culture find funny. So how about posting
> some Hungarian jokes on here, gang? Only do it in English, if you don't
> mind. And you might want to accompany your humorous posting with some
> thoughts of your own about the differences between what Hungarians find
> funny and what Americans, Canadians, Brits, etc. find funny.
> Sam Stowe

Social and economic synergism is one truly radical new idea that came
along in the 2000 years since the philosophy of the Greek atomists, in
which the reductionistic essence of western civilization is rooted.

The global social, economic and environmental complexities of life are
overwhelming conventional human wisdom and organizing skills. Chaos and
collapse is imminent without systemic renewal.

A revolution is outlined, away from the conventional, reductionistic
mind-set that yields a diminishing return, toward a holistic-synergistic
consciousness that can create the more-than-the-sum-of-the-parts
qualitative gain and surplus.

For more about synergistic renewal please visit:
http://www.cinenet.net/biofit  or the

nonprofit SYNCOR Institute9s  Synergy Exhibit at:
http://www.cinenet.net/biofit/syncor

Just to toss in a bit of Hungarian content I thought I'd share a couple of
news items my search profile picked up:

TOKYO, April 2 (Kyodo) -- Sony Corp. said Tuesday it will build an audio
visual equipment manufacturing plant in Hungary, becoming the first Japanese
electronics maker to set up a production base in the country. (...) The
facility, with an initial workforce of about 200, will produce compact disk
players at a monthly rate of 40,000 units.

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) -- The Dutch consumer electronics giant Philips NV
said Tuesday it has bought a car radio and tape deck plant in Hungary. (...)
The privately-owned Euroton factory about 46 miles southwest of Budapest
employs 1,100 people and has annual production capacities of 800,000 car
radios and three million tape decks.  Philips said Euroton will be Philips Car
Systems' third production site in Europe, with the other two in Rambouillet,
France, and Wetzlar, Germany.

Being a cosmopolitan sort I never believed that Japanese or Dutch workers are
intrinsically superior to Hungarian workers, and I see no reason not to
applaud the fact that Hungary is slowly but steadily becoming a more integral
part of the global economy. Even Noam Chomsky, who sees multinational
corporations as fundamentally evil, would have a hard time to put a negative
spin on the preceding news items, but no doubt someone on HUNGARY will
succeed...

Andra1s Kornai

Does anyone know if there is anyone in Northern Virginia that would be
willing to do some Hungarian tutoring and light translation?  If so,
please E-Mail.

Thanks - 

At 04:41 AM 4/6/96 -0800, Andra1s Kornai wrote:

>Even Noam Chomsky, who sees multinational
>corporations as fundamentally evil, would have a hard time to put a
>negative spin on the preceding news items, but no doubt someone on HUNGARY
>will succeed...

I'm no Noam Chomsky but let me have a chomp at it.

One of the best known slogans of the 'Quiet Revolution' in Quebec was/is
"Maitre chez nous".  It means "masters of our own house", or something like
that.  "Maitre chez nous" was always on the masthead of the independentist
(the Anglos usually say, seperatist) daily, La Jour (which in English means
'The Day').  For the Quebecois it meant that they wanted to control social,
economic, political, cultural, etc., developments in Quebec.  Up until the
1960s there was almost no significant entrepreneur class in Quebec.  What
power there was, was clerical.  Things have changed since then.

I'm very happy that Sony and Philips are going to set up shop in Hungary.
Other multinationals have already done so.  This is good.  Yes?  I have one
question though.  How many Hungarian companies have opened shop in other
countries?  Are there any Hungarian multinationals?  Will Hungarians be
"maitre chez nous", or is that an archaic concept when multinationals rule
the world?

Perhaps some anarchists in Quebec who published a rag called La Nuit, which
means 'The Night', had a better slogan on their masthead.  After La Nuit
they had the line "quand il n'y a pas de Maitre de tous".  In English it
means, "when there will be no masters at all".

Will Hungarians have as many choices?

Joe Szalai

P.S.  Please excuse any mistakes I might have made in French.

At 13:38 04/04/96 -0500, Joe Szalai wrote:

<snipped my stuff>

>Johanne and Sam, please feel free to sing along.  It's not as rousing as
>"The International" but that's OK with me.
>
>               IMAGINE
>
>       Imagine there's no heaven
>       It's easy if you try
>       No hell below us
>       Above us only sky
>       Imagine all the people
>       Living for today...

<*Imagine* the rest of the lyrics>

>       You may say I'm a dreamer
>       But I'm not the only one
>       I hope someday you'll join us
>       And the world will live as one
>
>                         John Lennon
>
>OK, OK.  I'm a Lennonist!  Are you happy now?

Oh, no! Don't tell me he was *your* mentor?! That Lennon was more confused
than the original one! (Lenin, that is).
>
>Perhaps I should have quoted Madonna's "Material Girl", but you already know
>the words for that!
>
>Joe Szalai

Hey, Sam, what do you say?! I say Joe is singing a *Szalai solo* on that one!

I would have thought from his earlier comments that Joe's anthem would have
been *Dust in the Wind,* by Kansas - you know, "All we are is dust in the
wind . . ."

And, sorry, Madonna is most definitely *N*O*T* one of my mentors, material
or otherwise!

Take Care,

Johanne

Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 


>
>

Andras Kornai reports:

>TOKYO, April 2 (Kyodo) -- Sony Corp. said Tuesday it will build an audio
>visual equipment manufacturing plant in Hungary, becoming the first Japanese
>electronics maker to set up a production base in the country. (...) The
>facility, with an initial workforce of about 200, will produce compact disk
>players at a monthly rate of 40,000 units.
>
>AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) -- The Dutch consumer electronics giant Philips NV
>said Tuesday it has bought a car radio and tape deck plant in Hungary. (...)
>The privately-owned Euroton factory about 46 miles southwest of Budapest
>employs 1,100 people and has annual production capacities of 800,000 car
>radios and three million tape decks.  Philips said Euroton will be Philips Car
>Systems' third production site in Europe, with the other two in Rambouillet,
>France, and Wetzlar, Germany.
>
>Being a cosmopolitan sort I never believed that Japanese or Dutch workers are
>intrinsically superior to Hungarian workers, and I see no reason not to
>applaud the fact that Hungary is slowly but steadily becoming a more integral
>part of the global economy. Even Noam Chomsky, who sees multinational
>corporations as fundamentally evil, would have a hard time to put a negative
>spin on the preceding news items, but no doubt someone on HUNGARY will
>succeed...

        As for the last sentence, someone on HUNGARY will and somone *in
Hungary* will do. The presence of multinational corporations is highly
criticized by the right.

        Eva Balogh

Here is a joke in hungarian, just recently from hungary.

        _____________

        Nyuszi fut az erdoben...
        Ki a baja, "ORGAZMUS!!  ORGAZMUS!!"

        Ismered??

        ...


        Pedig jo!!

Hi George:

You wrote:
>I'm sorry you didn't understand the context. I'll elucidate:
>John Lennon's *Imagine* was posted (to make whatever point the poster
>intended.)

Precisely.  As was the reply.

>A reply stated that well-off Lennon was not a good example.

Not quite.  The reply stated that I personally found the choice of the
lyrics utilized by Joe to be worthless if not utopic in general.  But
especially so,  when given consideration to the creator's circumstances
(stature if you prefer) at the time of creation.   Given that my reply had
only referred to Lennon's stature at the time of the writing of  *Imagine*;
and relating to that timeframe alone, I still find your posting to have been
out of context and erroneous.

>I interjected (more as an aside than any direct involvement in the main
>thread)

Thank you, that clears up my confusion as well as answers my original
question to you.

Regards,
Aniko


>

Happy Eastereggs Eva !
>From all the people in Amsterdam

In article >,  (Stowewrite)
says:
>
>I've always heard that one way to get some insight into another culture is
>to examine what people in that culture find funny. So how about posting
>some Hungarian jokes on here, gang? Only do it in English, if you don't
>mind. And you might want to accompany your humorous posting with some
>thoughts of your own about the differences between what Hungarians find
>funny and what Americans, Canadians, Brits, etc. find funny.

Yeah, good idea...

Have you heard this one? A guy is strolling through the park and comes
across another guy playing chess with....a dog! When it's the dog's
turn to move it cleverly ;-) pushes the appropriate piece with it's
paw or snout and typically removes taken pieces with it's mouth. The
stroller is somewhat taken aback by all this and watches for some time
in disbelief. Of course, other strollers passing by also stop to look
until a huge crowd builds up. Eventually the original stroller asks the
guy playing chess, *Is that your dog?*. The chessplayer replies, *Yes,
I taught Fido [the dog] how to play last week*. Someone else remarks:
*That's one helluva clever dog you've got there!*, and the chessplayer/
dog-owner shrugs, adding: *It's not that clever; I've just beaten it in
the last two games!!* :-))))

Regards,

George

 ********************************************************************
/ *** George Szaszvari ** Cybernautic address:  *** /
/ Independent Commodore Products Users' Group *** C=64 stuff wanted /
/          Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list!          /
********************************************************************

At 15:26 05/04/96 -0800, Eva Balogh brought some of my comments into a
Hungarian context:
>Johanne writes about Goldwater, Buckley, and Rand:
>
>>What I took from these people was the importance of the individual, and the
>>fact that the individual *can* make a difference in society.
>
>        As we all know Marxism puts very little emphasis on the importance
>of the individual in society. That is, Marx's notion of history was built on
>his belief that only economic changes affected the superstructure.
<snip snip>
> Now, they are serious attempts to break out
>of the straitjacket of Marxist historiography.
>
>        While I was in Hungary I discovered a four-volume history of Hungary
>designed mostly for teachers of Hungarian history. The series's title:
>Magyarok Europaban, and accordingly, the authors (each volume has a
>different author) instead of following the former Hungarocentric way of
>describing Hungarian history, they make a conscious effort to place events
>in the political, cultural, and economic history of Europe as whole. This is
>very important because, as I found out about a year ago on this list, most
>Hungarians seem to be completely unaware of Hungary's historical
>backwardness because they never learned Hungarian history in comparison to
>the history of the rest of Europe.

<snip again>

>        This may all be very far from the topic being discussed, but I
>thought it was interesting that even in small ways, like the role of the
>individual in history, Marxist way of thinking is becoming completely
>abandoned. Otherwise, I highly recommend these four, inexpensive volumes
>(about 700 Ft per volume--less then $5.00) for anyone who would like to have
>a good reference book on Hungarian history.
>
>        Eva Balogh

Enjoyed your comments very much - you provided the Hungarian content, which
I could not. You should never apologize for bringing the topic back to
something more pertinent to the mandate of the Discussion Group!

Yours,

Johanne

Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 
>
>

At 10:14 PM 4/5/96 -0500, Sam Stowe wrote:

>I've always heard that one way to get some insight into another culture is
>to examine what people in that culture find funny.

Other than crude sexist jokes and jokes with sexual innuendoes, Hungarians
find few things funny.  In this century Hungary has endured World War One,
Bela Kun and the Hungarian Soviets, the treaty of Trianon, World War Two,
totalitarian governments, the revolution of 1956, and one of the highest
suicide rates in the world.  All of these have taken a heavy toll on the
people.  Is it any wonder that Hungarians are a pessimistic bunch?  It's
taken me some time but I now know that the stretch marks around my mouth are
not from laughing.  But life's like that.

Joe Szalai

In article >,  (Joe11611)
wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is anyone in Northern Virginia that would be
> willing to do some Hungarian tutoring and light translation?  If so,
> please E-Mail.
>
> Thanks - 

Js napot, Joe. You may be able to accomplish part of your goal with Aaron
Rubin's free Hungarian lessons: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~arubin/hungarian.html

Szia.
MKColling

>I've always heard that one way to get some insight into another culture is
>to examine what people in that culture find funny. So how about posting
>some Hungarian jokes on here, gang? Only do it in English, if you don't
>mind. And you might want to accompany your humorous posting with some
>thoughts of your own about the differences between what Hungarians find
>funny and what Americans, Canadians, Brits, etc. find funny.

Some political jokes from the old days:

Caucescu (romanian dictator), Gorbachov and Bush has a meeting. In a fifteen
minutes break they begin to talk about bodyguards and their disciplines. Finall
y
they make a competion for their bodyguards. First Gorbachov ask his chief
guard to jump out from the third floor. After some short hesitation the
guard begin to beg and say: "You have to understand I have family". Then
Bush tells his chief body guard to jump, but the guard refuses it with saying
he has family,too. When Cauceuscu's chief body guard sees this he jump out
without any order. Later everybody asks him why he did so and the
answer was "You have to understand I have family and 10 children".

The americans and the russians make competition for submarines, i.e whose
sub can stay longer down in the ocean. First the american goes, after 3
years it come up. Then the russian goes down, it can survive 10 years down.
Everybody congratulates to the russians, a big celebration begins but suddenly
a demaged old submarine appears with some german soldiers, asking:'Heil Hitler!
Has the war ended?'

Janos Zsargo

Does anyone out there have a recipe for PASKA.  It is the Easter Bread.  I
have one, but it always turns out dry.  I also do not believe it to be
authentic.  I would like to make it for Easter for my future in-laws.  I
tried it again, but I am not satisfied with it.  Hopefully, someone has a
good one out there!!!!!!

Thank you in advance!

                                        Desperately Seeking Recipe,
                                                        Tracy

"Imagine" is good music but silly lyrics that have not been thought out
carefully.

At 04:19 PM 4/6/96 -0500, Joe Szalai wrote:

>Other than crude sexist jokes and jokes with sexual innuendoes, Hungarians
>find few things funny.

It always bothers me when someone makes this kind of generalization about
any nation. Joe, how many Hungarians do you know? Maybe you should say,
those that you know find few things funny. My experience is very different.

Gabor D. Farkas

On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, Joe Szalai wrote:

> Other than crude sexist jokes and jokes with sexual innuendoes, Hungarians
> find few things funny.

Joe,

The exact opposite is true!  In spite of all the hardships that they had
to endure, Hungarians were always able to poke fun at themselves and
their situations.  It was one of the reasons why that tiny nation
remained resilient through foreign dominance, occupation and political
oppression.

Political humor in Hungary is always alive and well.  Why is it that one
of the first daily publications by HIX (the Hungarian-language Internet
connection) was MOKA, (=JOKE) the humor column?  It was not by accident!

Hungarian humor is ranked up there with the very best, with a special
brand that belongs to Budapest.  I wish I had the time to search for
representative examples, but I am sure someone will be forthcoming with
those.  Please folks, help me with these!

Martha

"Humorban nem ismerek tre'fa't."  Frigyes Karinthy - Hungary's greatest
humorist.
(Will someone please try to translate this to English????)