In article > BROWNE, 
writes:
>What does a Hungarian think of the European Union ?

Overly bureaucratic.
Restricts global free trade.

Tamas

pavol wrote:
> 
> Since when Slovakin Komarno is spelled Komarom? And about

Since I choose to spell it like that. I like to say Mexikovaros instead
of Ciudad de Mexico, or Pozsony instead of Bratislava.

> time and we can see who is/was rasist. Mongolian Magyars
> (now called Hungarians) Did not allow speak Slovak in Slovakia.
> Madar butta, hlava duta .
> 
> Pavol

But you're not biased by any chance, are you? No, of course not; you're
just a 
hypocrite like Wally Keeler.

Gabor

On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:27:20 -0800, Me > wrote:

>Thus, in order to be possible the arrival of Romanians in
>Transylvania after 1300AD, keeping in mind the fact that before1000AD
>the Hungarian language was already a mature language, you have to
>pretend that Hungarians borrowed this fundamental word (and I will quote
>you again on how fundamental it was) from another Romance language,
>which (again coincidentally ) has the same evolutionary pattern as
>Romanian.

I think Liviu was right: this is getting to be embarrassing.  But, since
you played a "let's pretend", let me do the same, using your
assumptions.

Since you admit that by the year 1000AD the Hungarian language was
already a mature language and thus had to have the word "fiu" firmly
fixed, when do you suggest the borrowing of that word took place?
Since Hungarians entered the Carpathian basin only a century before that
from the East, the borrowing had to take place during that one century,
assuming that the predecessors of today's Romanians were already there
(and in sufficient numbers, I'd think.)  I don't know of much contact
between Hungarians and Romanians before that conquest (895-96AD).
So are you saying then that the Hungarian language that was firmly
mature in the year 1000AD was so immature and pliable during the prior
century that they had to borrow from the Romanians (or Vlachs) such a
basic word as "son" ("fiu")?  To think that Hungarians did not have a
firmly established word of their own for such a core concept before
900AD is pretty unbelievable.  And one does not have to be a linguist to
think so.

Joe Pannon

PS: still waiting for your essay on the Ardeal-Erdely connection, BTW.

In article >, 
 says...
>
>Azert mert itt nalunk amerikaban a (keyboard) billentyuzetnek nincs 
magyar
>ekezete.

there are hungarian keyboard drivers...don't rember where.  however, 
i did at one time install windows 3.1 in two versions: hungarian and 
english.  just booted into which ever was required.
-- 
regards,
greg (gergely)
-------------- Greg L. Kimnach -----------------------\
Infinite Impressions   NASA Lewis Research Center     /
216-267-1380           216-433-6251                   /
                  /
I opted for Betamax, the world for VHS;               /
                I for Amiga, the world for IBM clones./
"Do or do not!  There is no 'try' "--Yoda             /
        http://powerweb.lerc.nasa.gov                 /
> ------------------------------------------------------/

In article >,  
says...
>
>Since when Slovakin Komarno is spelled Komarom?   It was always 
spelled Komarom, just as Vienna was always spelled Becs, and Cluj is 
and was always Kolozsvar, wregardless of who owns the territory.

And about 
>poverty: Hungarian Tourists we  (in Slovakia) could recognize
>because they were wearing Gym excecise clothes and after the 
>war there was a starvation in Hungary . My grand ma used to 
>send food to her family to Hungary so they would not starve to 
>death. Madars, wake up. Austrohungary is OVER. There is nothing 
>you can do about it.
>Do not complain about discrimination, because we can go back in 
>time and we can see who is/was rasist. Mongolian Magyars 
>(now called Hungarians) Did not allow speak Slovak in Slovakia.
>
 1) The Hungarians are not a mongol race.  You got this probably from 
Maria Egorov.  2) When the ancient Hungarians occupied the Karpathian 
Basin, I doubt there was a Slovakia where the Slovaks couldn't speak 
their own language.

Agnes 

Madar butta, hlava duta . 
>  
>Pavol        
>

On 4 Feb 1997 23:45:34 GMT, pavol > wrote:

>Since when Slovakin Komarno is spelled Komarom?

Yeah, and since when is Hungarian Esztergom spelled Ostrichom, or
something like that in Slovak? How about the Slovak name of Austria's
capital, Wien (Vienna in English)?

> And about 
>poverty: Hungarian Tourists we  (in Slovakia) could recognize
>because they were wearing Gym excecise clothes and after the 
>war there was a starvation in Hungary . My grand ma used to 
>send food to her family to Hungary so they would not starve to 
>death.

The reason is simple, really.  It was because the Slovaks managed to
pass themselves to the victorious side by placing themselves under the
Czechs again.  That meant more aid from the West.  No such thing for
Hungary. 

> Madars, wake up. Austrohungary is OVER. There is nothing 
>you can do about it.

What made you say these things?  Where did you get the idea that
Hungarians think that Austro-Hungary IS NOT over?  Besides, why would
they want to do something about it, especially since they themselves
were not too fond of that union in the first place?

>Do not complain about discrimination, because we can go back in 
>time and we can see who is/was rasist. Mongolian Magyars 
>(now called Hungarians) Did not allow speak Slovak in Slovakia.

I see you can really go back in time, even if that time only exists
in your sick mind.  I wonder how all those Slovaks kept their language
if they were not allowed to speak while the area now called Slovakia
was a region of Hungary.

>Madar butta, hlava duta . 

The expression used to be "buta tot", and you sure are giving it a lot
of credibility.

And now go back under your rock.

Joe

In article >, 
 says...
>In article >, Wally Keeler wrote:
>>In article >, 
 says...
>>>Angol:
>>>I do not understand your last two messages.  
>> 
>>That's ok.
>
>Of course it's OK, since you'd probably contradict it in your next
>message. Before you fly off raving and ranting about the faults of other
>people, maybe you should take care of your own hypocrisy and prejudices? 
>Come on Wally, give it a try. You seem like a nice guy. Even when you try
>to be rude, your writings show you have little concept of what is
>considered rude, and that's cute. 
>Gabor

This is an encore?

 wrote:
> 
>
> I think Liviu was right: this is getting to be embarrassing. 

Now that you told me what Liviu thinks (I have't received his posting) I
can also tel you that I find embarrassing the fact that no ethymological
maps have ever been  mentionned (by him or by others). He should have
known that while in Southern Transylvania the word cioban is being used,
in other parts of Tranylvania the word pacurar is prevalent. It's
elementary. Sextil Puscariu cannot be blamed for things that are
happening today( I mean that nobody cares about mapping the linguistic
areas).  For the time when he lived, he's done a pretty good job.He was
only an initiator.And Liviu is no God, anyway. I hope he agrees with
that himself. Anyway it is in his own interest to do it. Otherwise...

As for words, what can I say? Words cannot be obsolete. But a historical
approach that doesn't  take into account ethymological factors can.

You know, everybody can try to "make science". But an approach that
doesn't explain everything (I mean all the facts), or at least doen't
try to explain everything , is flawed from the start. In science you
cannot just eliminate whatever bothers you, whatever is "embarrassing". 
You cannot just say that if somebody has raised a problem and you don't
have an accurate answer for it , it's meaningless.
In order for a theory to be considered true, it has to take into account
all the facts, and it needs to explain everything.If it doesn't, it's
not just "embarrassing", it's plainly fake.
There is an excellent book about "good and fake science" written by
Martin Gardner (a mathematician) . I think it's something you should
read.
> assumptions.

> You may think whatever you want to think. Whatever you may think , still the 
word "fiu" comes from the latin word "filius". Eppur si muove.
And you haven't answered my arguments at all. If you don't agree with
them,  and you don't give me a credible  alternative, we cannot talk
anymore about it. There are no "coincidences " here. And this is just
one example.

> assuming that the predecessors of today's Romanians were already there
> (and in sufficient numbers, I'd think.)  

You think that I am assuming things I am not assuming . Whatever you
think, it's your business. The only thing I am assuming is the fact that
the "coincidence "  approach in ethymology is far-fetched.

And again, about your statement that " I promissed you an essay about
the Ardeal-Erdely connection", needless to say that I didn't promissed
you anything.You have a problem with the memory. Please check the mail. 


Regards,

Tony.

PS. I liked very much Mr Palffy's idea, so I'll finish my posting with a
"saying":
An educated person is anyone who agrees with you.

In article > ,  writes:
>Uj vagyok a Neten valaki irna nehany szot arrol, hogy mi ez a levelesi
>lista?!

Legy udvozolve a Usenet-en !

(A lista neve magaert beszel).

Ez a legregibb magyar lista , az a
magyar lista,  amely automatikusan a vilag minden szerveren
megtalalhato, mert a 'soc.culture' mindenhol elerheto.

Tamas

Keresem a bar=E1tn=F6met ?????

Figyelem !!!

Kitudna engemet segiteni,hogy megtal=E1ljam egy 53 =E9vel ezel=F6ttiBudap=
esti
bar=E1tn=F6met .A l=E1nykori neve Gejer Gertrud ( Gerti )k=F6r=FClbel=FCl=
i sz=FClet=E9si
=E9ve 1926.
Lakot az akkori Lipotv=E1rosban a Visegr=E1di utca egyik utca kereszt utc=
=E1-
j=E1ban.=C9desapja Dr.Gejer =FCdjv=E9d volt,kishug=E1t Anninak hivt=E1k.A=
z =E9n l=E1ny-
kori nevem R=F6szler Vera =E9s laktam 1941-ben a Varman utca 6-8 ban.Most=
ani
cimem Stockholm.
U.I. Nagyon k=E9rem azokat akik tudnak valamit rola =E9rtesitsenek a f=E9=
rjem
E-mail cim=E9re.  K=F6sz=F6n=F6m

 wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 07:36:15 -0800, Me > wrote:
> >
> >Sorry to say , but The Song of the Nibelungs hs been written in German,
> >not in Hungarian.
> 
> Who said otherwise?  Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
> I was asking you if the song also mentioned where those Walachians were
> from?  I did that because most of your effort seems to be here to prove
> the Daco-Roman Continuity theory.
> 
>
 >As for the latin - the Romanian word Fiu, (filius) you can indeed
think
> >that the Hungarian population came to Europe from a Latin - speaking
> >Area in Asia. You can, but it is absurd.
> 
> Again ... who said what you are claiming?  Here is what I wrote:
> 
> >I am also quite confident that the Hungarian word for "son"
> >only coincidently 

Coincidentally ? Is it not too much? So, according to you,
coincidentally a non-indo european language has Latin words processed
(again coincidentally) according to specific paterns found by
ethymologists to belong coincidentally to a neighbouring language called
Coincidentally Romanian.
Not too many coincidences?

is similar to the Latin "filius" because I can't
> >imagine how "fiu" could derive from it. 

You cannot, but linguists can. Read "A lingustic introduction: The
Romance languages" by R. Posner Coincidentally it is a book for
beginners. (Anchor Books, Doubleday, 1966).

'
Besides, words such as that tend
> >to be very ancient in every language and belong to its core.  

EXCELLENT !!! NOW YOU GOT IT!
This is exactly what I said! Maybe this time I was much more clear than
before! "Fiu" is a basic word in both Romanian and Hungarian!  A word
like that cannot enter a language but in a very ancient phase, when the
language was still not  in a mature form! Still flexible! Still fuzzy!
Still soft! It's not like Kaposzta or like vinete-vineta, which may be
just occasional occurencies! It's like mother and father!
But we know for sure that even before Szent Istvan (1000AD) the
Hungarian language was a mature language.A rigid, mature language. It
wasn't flexible any more!

The fact that you personally don't know what all the ethymologists know,
that "fiu" derives from Latin (please read my message to Mr Palffy),
after a sequence identicasl like for "ai" , does not mean anything,
except that: that you don't know!
:sO: FILIUS ---(FILIU)  (SPLIT)     ..............FIU
               (ARUMANIAN..HILIU)
lIKE FOR ALIUM .....(ALIU)......AI
As you know, in Romanian the final s goes away.


> 
> >So the Hungarians have taught the local population in Transylvania,
> >whatever their origin, Latin? This is what you are saying?
> 
> I said or implied nothing of the sort.  Read again what I wrote.
> 
> >I will repeat: Hungarians have a non-indo-European language.
> 
> Not that anybody doubted it ...
> 
> >The word FIU comes from Latin,(FILIUS)n and it is specific only for the
> >Romanian language. Not for the medieval Latin, Not for French, Not for
> >Italian.
> 
> The Hungarian word for daughter is "lany".  Does that come from Latin,
> too?  If the "fiu" does, why not the "lany"?  

Now let the " fiu" be fiu, and the lany be lany.
Or maybe let the "fiu" chose if he still wants to be a "fiu", or a
"lany" or a "kisaszonyi" if he please to.
I am not  talking here about life facts, but about the ethymology of the
word "fiu". And I know very well that I am standing on firm soil, while
you are standing on quicksand.

As I said, I don't think
> the Hungarian word fiu's etymology has anything to do with the Latin
> "filius".  The similarity is only superficial.
> 
>Yeah. Right . Only a coincidence.
Again, please read introductory linguistic studies.

> You already make the assumption about the Daco-Roman Continuity as a
> fact instead of just a theory 
> 
I am not assuming anything! I am just asking questions.

But let's be for a moment the Devil's advocate. Let's assume for a
second that whatever everybody knows, that the Romanian word "fiu" comes
from an unknown or asian root, the problem will remain exactly the same:

During the formation time, when Hungarian and Romanian were not fully
matured languages, an important event took place: a crucial word
exchange. Sould I call it an "ethymologic intercourse"? 
I'll let you chose the name for it.

It did not happened between Romanian and Greek, it happened between
Romanian and Hungarian.
I won't make any assumption: I'll let you make it:

!. If Romanians came from Greece after 1300, as some people are saying,
then this exchange should thave occured afterwards.But we happen to know
that the Hungarian Language was at that a fully formed, mature language.

2. On the other hand , if we assume , as known, that the Hungarian
language was already a mature language before the year 1000, then this
exchange should have occured before that date?
Got it?

Stated in other words, it's like  Homer's story:
"Some people are saying that the Iliad and Odysey were written not by
Homer, but by another  blind old poet longtime before Homer, and his
name was also Homer."

Or for us:No ethymologists (coincidentally) have any doubt  that the
word "fiu" comes from Latin(filius), according to a specific pattern,
identified only in periphereal romance languages. In this case,
Romanian.Thus, in order to be possible the arrival of Romanians in
Transylvania after 1300AD, keeping in mind the fact that before1000AD
the Hungarian language was already a mature language, you have to
pretend that Hungarians borrowed this fundamental word (and I will quote
you again on how fundamental it was) from another Romance language,
which (again coincidentally ) has the same evolutionary pattern as
Romanian.


Best regards, Tony

In article > ,
 writes:
>So are you saying then that the Hungarian language that was firmly
>mature in the year 1000AD was so immature and pliable during the prior
>century that they had to borrow from the Romanians (or Vlachs) such a
>basic word as "son" ("fiu")?

The Vlach shepherds by grazing their sheeps probably reached the Urals.
That's how this word, which belongs to the most ancient layer of *all*
Finno-ugric languages, made its way through.

More plausible : the Valch are an ancient Samoyed tribe who left the
Arktic long ago, because it was so fricking cold above there,.
The sheeps always got flu and bronchitis, and the coughing and snee-
zing was just unbearable to our humble Vlach shepherds. 

Tamas