Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
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Megrendelés Lemondás
1 *** FREE GAMES *** (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: and how was hungary?....... (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Vlasi (was: Re: Re:Nestor & Vlachs I) (mind)  90 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Hunyadis ethnicity (mind)  125 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Luggage safety at Ferihegy Airport (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
6 Magyar Radio Shortwave Broadcast (Szulofoldunk) 07/24-0 (mind)  83 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: semantics and semantics... (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
8 NEED BOOK FOR HUNGARY (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)

+ - *** FREE GAMES *** (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Visit my Home - Page and download, using my gamelink, more than 100 games!!!
YES more than 100 games from various FTP sites with just a click of
your mouse!!! Did I mentioned that the games are zipped and are only good
for the PC?
Also you can view some good picts of Hungary.
The URL of my page is : http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~hristos/
Let me know of what you think!

+ - Re: and how was hungary?....... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

wojek testver,
egyetertek veled a legvegsokik . mi magyarok buszkek kell hogy legyunk 
hazankra. Iam Ivan Evetovic and am in Malaysia studying philosophy.  But 
no matter where Iam my heart and soul are always in Hungary.  
Ivan Evetovic,
+ - Re: Vlasi (was: Re: Re:Nestor & Vlachs I) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > Liviu Iordache,

>>Remember, Jelko's mentioned one: Olaszi - Francavilla. Here
>>the Frank - Olasz connection is clear.

>First, Jeliko has mentioned virtually no bibliographical
>references that support his interpretation of the
>Russian Primary Chronicle. I provided the above example
>to suggest that his unsuported claim is derived from
>a similarly suspect interpretation of Gesta Hungarorum
>(see Gyorffy, 1970).

I am sorry for the mistake. It is difficult to keep track of
such a long-running discussion.

>Francavilla, on the Adriatic coast, is in northern Italy.

It is called "Mandjelos" now, populated by serbs, its exact
Latin name is "Franca Villa". Mandjelos is neither in Italy
nor Dalmatia but in Serbia, in the Mitrovica district, south
to Danube.There is another 'Frankish' town in the neighbour-
hood, "Francovilla" which is called Baja nowdays. It is lo-
cated in south Hungary, beside the Danube. Both 'villa',
Francovilla and Franca Villa, were populated, at least part-
ly, by Italian or Romance settlers.

[Ortsnamenverzeichnis der Staaten der Ungarischen Heiligen
Krone, 1913]

>The locality was probably founded by the German Longobards
>late in the 6th century. The Longobards were gradually
>romanized so that in 774 Charlemagne conquered practically
>an "Italian" people. Therefore, it is no surprise if the
>Magyars called "Olasz" (Italians) either the 9th century or
>present-day people of Francavilla.

So we found  nevertheless Romance speaking Frankish citizens
in the East Frank Empire, didn't we ?  You doubted and tried
to refute their existence [see below]. Do you still think that
the Hungarians had no ground to call Vlach/Olasz these sub-
jects of the Franks ?
These romance speaking settlements, presumably strongholds
on the frontier with its continuously present military for-
ces and administration meant the Frank Empire for the Slavs,
and later for the Hungarians.

>By 800 the Germanic-speaking people east of the Rhine
>had been incorporated into the Frankish  empire: in 843
>they formed together a separate kingdom under the
>Carolingian ruler Louis the German. The famous Oaths of
>Strasbourg are pertinent here because one can prove what
>was language was spoken by the East Franks. 

Does it mean that the Rhine runs in the Carpatian basin and
Strasbourg is on the side of the Danube there ? :) :) :)

It only proves that the German language was in usage there,
in that part of West-Europe.It proves nothing on whether
which languages were used by the mixed population of the
Empire living on the east frontier.

>>If there had been Aromanic/Vlach people around, there
>>wouldn't have been this confusion with the usage of the
>>word. As Vlakhs appeared in the region, their name made
>>its way - directly and unambigously- to Hungarian.

>Come on Tamas, you can do better than that!I am sorry to say
>but your reasoning is again based on fallacy. The Romanians
>never called themselves "Vlachs"

Yes, I believed that Romanians once called themselves Valch. 
That's why i've thought somewhat reasonable your claim, that
in the Gesta Hungarorum the Blachs might be Romanians.

Now you are in trouble, as we Hungarians are in trouble when
we want to trace our roots back to the steppe. There, every
tribe was called Turk, regardless of their ethnicity.It seems
that exactly the same happened with the Romanians who were
called 'Vlach' - foreigners, together with numerous other
volks dwelling in the region.

Just a question: is it possible that there were people who
nevertheless called themselves Vlachs ? (parexample, in
the Middle age, the Hungarians called the half-nomad sheper-
dizing Serbs Vlakh as well..)

+ - Re: Hunyadis ethnicity (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Liviu Iordache 
.edu> writes:
|>Recently, the origin of the Hunyadis was subject of
|>debate among the Hungarian and Romanian contributors to
|>this forum. The following  text is adapted after
|>     Held, J., 1985, Hunyadi: Legend and Reality. East
|>          European  Monographs, Colombia University
|>          Press, New York, 264 p.
|>     In an age when family trees and long lines of
|>ancestry were important ingredients of a successful
|>political career, Hunyadi's origins were obscure indeed.
|>Beyond the names of  his parental grandfather, Serba or
|>Sorba [Serbu or Sirbu!?], and his father, Voyk or Woyk
|>[Voicu !?], we know next to nothing of his ancestry. His
|>ancestry was disputed for century by Hungarian, Romanian,
|>and South Slavic historians, each claiming him for their
|>The first document mentioning the Hunyadis  is a patent
|>issued in 1409 by king Sigismund granting the castle of
|>Vajdahunyad, in Hunyad county, Transylvania. The patent
|>mentions Voyk, his brothers Radul and Magos, Voyk's son
|>Janos, and his nephew, also called Radul. The
|>contemporary chronicler Thurcozi explained that the
|>family had come to Transylvania from Wallachia, and the
|>chronicle of counts Cilli remarked, "it is know that this
|>Janos Hunyadi was born in Wallachia"
|>It is likely that Voyk came to Hungary -perhaps a
|>refugee from the fratricidal Wallachian wars- during the
|>late 1390s and that he was of the Orthodox religion.
|>Once in Hungary, he probably married a Hungarian lesser
|>noblewoman whose name it is not known. She might have
|>been a Szapolyai, as indicated by the impressions of a
|>coat of arms found  in the cathedral of Gyulafehervar
|>[Alba Iulia] More than this, it seems probable that Voyk
|>converted to Roman Catholicism before his marriage; his
|>children were reared as Roman Catholics.
|>Voyk sired three sons Janos, Janos Jr. (!)  and Voyk Jr.
|>and perhaps one or two daughters of whom only one is
|>known to us by name. He appears to have died while his
|>sons were still young and questions about a possible
|>second marriage for Hunyadi's mother have been raised.
|>The elder Janos (Iancu) was probably born at court around
|>1407 although both the birth place and the date are
|>highly debatable. We know next to nothing about the fate
|>of the youngest, Voyk Jr. He probably died at an early
|>age, since no trace of him can be found in documents
|>after 1419. Janos Jr., on the other hand, accompanied his
|>elder brother on his early campaigns and died of wounds
|>received in 1441 or 1442.
|>Hunyadi knew Wallachian and learned Italian as a young
|>men when he spent some time in Milan in 1430s. Probably
|>he understood Serbian and perhaps even Turkish.  However,
|>Hunyadi did not know Latin,  as is indicated by the fact
|>that his oath as regent had to be translated into
|>Hungarian for him.
|>Hunyadi married Erzesbet Szilagy. The Szilagyis had a
|>wide network of family-relations in Transylvania,
|>including the respected lesser noble families of Vingarts
|>and Garazdas.
|>Laszlo, Hunyadi's elder son , was born around 1430 or
|>1431 and the younger Matyas, the future Corvinus, about
|>8 years later.
|>Legend has Hunyadi the offspring of an illicit affair
|>between king Sigismund and a Transylvanian woman of the
|>Morzsinai family, and of one between Stepan Lazarevic
|>the despot of Serbia and a Hungarian woman from Nagyszeben
|>Hungarian historians have sometimes attempted to deny
|>Hunyadi's Wallachian origin. The fact that king Sigismund
|>mentioned the young Janos in the original patent and that
|>his successors, Albert I and Wladislaw I granted large
|>landed estates to the Hunyadis has been considered
|>evidence for their Hungarian and royal ancestry.
|>None of  Hunyadi's actions indicate that, from an ethnical
|>viewpoint, he felt either Romanian or Magyar. His brutal
|>revenge on Vlad Dracul of Wallachia was rather an act
|>motivated by envy and/or political considerations.
|>Actually, politics in the 15th century Hungary was not
|>ethnic-oriented. In the entire 15 century, only one
|>"ethnically Hungarian" king ruled the realm, and this
|>was Matyas Hunyadi (Corvinus) who was of Wallachian
|>descent on his father's side. Many of the leading
|>aristocratic families, such as the counts of Cilli,
|>the Frankopans, the Olahs, the Dragfis, and others,
|>were of non-Magyar origin. Phillippo Scolari was
|>a Florentine, and Janos Vitez was part-Croatian or
|>Slovene. All these lords, together with ethnically
|>Hungarian aristocrats and noblemen, served the king of
|>Hungary -or fought against him, as occasion demanded -
|>and considered themselves members of the natio Hungarica.
|>The individual was first attached to the person of the
|>king; then, more abstractly, to the kingdom and its
|>symbol, the crown, then to his feudal lord (or his
|>vassal, or his vassal's vassal) or to his landlord.
|>Secondly, his loyalty belong to the universal Christian
|>Church. One's loyalty to the kingdom and Church was of a
|>different quality than the customs attaching him to the
|>ethnic community. Feudal dependence embraced a narrower,
|>Christianity a wider circle than the circle of ethnicity.
|>One could be gentle Hungarus while at the same time was
|>also natione Latinus, that is, of Romanian origin and
|>Liviu Iordache

I agree, and that was I learned during my primary and secondary school
lessons and later reading several historical books of Hungarian historicians
in Hungary. I missed the other opinions.

+ - Re: Luggage safety at Ferihegy Airport (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Lee > 
 Also, I have heard that foreigners (westerners especially) are charged very 
high prices for taxis. You don't really need a taxi in Budapest because public 
transport there is so good and cheap.

Is it still true that the "Allami" taxis (with the black license plates) are
the most trustworthy? It's been a few years since I've been to BP, but I seem
to recall that being the case as of '92. 

- Tomek Jankowski
+ - Magyar Radio Shortwave Broadcast (Szulofoldunk) 07/24-0 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The following information is a contribution from Andrew Vadasz :

( http://mineral.umd.edu/hir/Entertainment/Radio/Shortwave/ )

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Specific Programs :
Jul 24 Hetfo 
	Tallozo - Szollos Istvan folyoiratszemleje.

Jul 25 Kedd 
	Zold sarok- Koszegi Abel osszeallitasa kornyezetvedoknek

Jul 26 Szerda 
	Meselo tortenelem: az elso furedi Anna-bal. Cservenka Judit musora.

Jul 27 Csutortok 
	Postabontas: valaszol Patonai Adrienne es Katona Erzsebet

Jul 28 Pentek 
	Film, szinhaz, kiallitas. Jogi tanacsok Dr.Szego 
	Kulturalis oroksegunk: Cserepfalvi Imre. Varkonyi Benedek osszeallitasa.

Jul 29 Szombat 
	Sport  Mult es jelen: Szent Laszlo, a lovagkiraly. Fikar Laszlo musora.

Jul 30 Vasarnap 
	Magyar sorsok, eletpalyak a XX szazadban. 
	Hallgatoink kivansagara - Patonai Adrienne musora.

Jul 31 Hetfo 
	Tallozo- Szollos Istvan folyoiratszemleje. 
	Arcok a tegnapbol: 
	Szell Gyorgy karmester- Varkonyi Benedek osszeallitasa. 

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

One hour program daily, starting at 0:00 UTC for N.America East
(8 pm EDT) and at 01:30 UTC for N.America West. (Much overlap, as West 
broadcasts can be heard in the East and vice versa, albeit w. reduced 
signal strength). 

6000, 9835 and 11910 kHz. Of these in the East 9835 is usually 
the best (it changes). See end of program listing for receiving advice.

Mondays through Saturdays, the broadcasts start with:
"A nap kronikaja- Hirek, tudositasok". 
"Joestet, itt Magyarorszag ! kozelet, gazdasag, kultura."
 Sundays again "a nap kronikaja" 
"egyhazi hirado".

Reception hints. 
Summer is usually the best. Frequencies, times, change 
with the Fall equinox (when Europe changes clocks). Fall/ winter 
reception has varied from the difficult to the impossible. (More about 
that subject later). Because of the crowded spectrum, a digitally tuned 
receiver is best.
Outside horizontal wire antenna (about 15-20 ft) generally recommended. 
Since the time is not generally convenient for me, I usually  record the
program on tape (one side of a "120 min" cassette) and play it back the
next day in the car, walking, gardening, etc. Uninteresting portions 
can thus be scanned through, sometimes names don't come clearly: thus 
can be repeated.
Would be interested in your questions, experiences. Andy Vadasz, 

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
This message has been generated automatically. In case of errors, please,
          contact the administrator of the Hungarian-American List 

         Thank you for reading the Hungarian-American List !        
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
+ - Re: semantics and semantics... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
itachi.com writes:
>     >>>
>      (Wojciech Chrostek) wrote:
>     what you should care about is 
>     the content and not the form.
>     so loosen up.
>     goodbye,
>     -cristian

Actually, form occasionally implies content - what passes for loose grammatical
structure in English (especially American English) is generally the result of
the average English speaker's ignorance of the grammatical rules of their own
language, and is unacceptable in other languages. This is why non-native
English speakers can be sticky about such "nuances" as proper capitalizations,
For a non-native English speaker, therefore, not capitalizing the "h" in
"Hungary" appears to be an insult - as indeed it is, even if it was simply a 
product of the writer's laziness. 

It's called discipline.

So shape up.

Tomek Jankowski
+ - NEED BOOK FOR HUNGARY (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear fellow Hungarians,

A school in Hungary needs some books in the English language. An American
friend of mine teaches English to Hungarian hugh school students in
Hungary. He has been there for about three years and he has really gotten
close to the kids.

He recently wrote me a letter and he needs our help. He wrote: "We need
any textbook in the English language in the areas of English Language,
History of the U.S. or World History, Literature, Geography or Art. In
short, any books that middle or high schools can't use any longer and want
to get rid of.

As far as numbers of books, anything around 15 copies of anything is good,
as most of our language classes are 15 or 16 now, and students can always
share a book.

I don;t know if you have any good contacts with school districts in any
parts of the U.S., but if you know or hear of any that have some still
usable and interesting texts, we would be very happy to get them here."

If you can help, please contact me. 

It would be wonderful if the books would arrive in Hungary for the
beginning of the new school year in September.

Thank you for your support.

Steve Mihaly
Hungarian American Heritage Network