Gotthard,

With all respect, have you ever read the charter of the HUNGARY mailing list ?

What is the Hungarian-issue content of a second-hand Chrysler being available
somewhere in the USA ?  Could you, please, respect the charter of the list and
restrict such ads to your local bulletin board.

George Antony

Could someone enlighten me as to the state of property
restitution in Hungary?  I recall that there was a round a few years
back, but I don't know any of the details.  I'm specifically interested
in the cut-off date, eligibility requirements, limits on restitution, and
whether any more restitutions are planned for the future.

        Norb

Norbert Ja'nos Udvardy Walter      | "If a nation does not want a monarchy,
Fort Worth, Texas, USA             |  change the nation's mind.  If a nation
Internet:          |  does not need a monarchy, change the
FidoNet:   1:130/911.6212          |  nation's needs."       -- Jan C. Smuts

I couldn't set nomail as before - please, whoever
the list - boss, help, I have no time to look into it.

Twenty-six essays on the transformation of the political system and its
aftermath has just been translated into English and published in
paperback by the noted Hungarian writer George Konrad under the title
"Melancholy of Rebirth" (Harcourt Brace and Co. 1995). The book is a
good reflection of the intellectual landscape of Hungary.

C.K. ZOLTANI

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

The New York Hungarian House
213 East 82nd Street
(between 2nd and 3rd Avenues)
New York, N.Y.  10028
Office: 212 249-9360 Lobby: 212 650-1974

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

A New York es kornyeke magyar egyhazai es szervezetei szeretettel
meghivjak Ont es csaladjat

L a s z l o   B a l a z s
New York-i Magyar Fokonzul
tiszteletere a Magyar Hazban 1995 Junius 2.-an, penteken este 6 orai
kezdettel rendezett fogadasara.
Koltseg hozzajarulaskent adomanyokat ($10) koszonettel fogadunk.

*********************

The New York area Hungarian religious and civic organizations cordially
invite you and your family to a reception at the Hungarian House honoring

B a l a z s   L a s z l o
Consul General of Hungary in New York

starting at 6 PM, on June 2., 1995.

Contributions ($10) to defray expenses are gratefully accepted.

*******************************************************************

IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY LAW

I am currently researching immigration and
nationality law in Hungary
number of my clients.  I have been advised
(perhaps incorrectly) that  it is possible to gain
citizenship very quickly indeed.

I would therefore be very grateful indeed if
you might be able to help in any way or may
be able to give me details on someone else
who can help.

If you can help this could be mutually
profitable.  I await your reply.

By the way, if you would would like we can
communicate using pgp data encryption for
added confidentiality.

Yours sincerely



Sanwar Ali
Sanwar Ali
Managing Partner
BCL Immigration Services
Acorn House
74-94 Cherry Orchard Road
Croydon
Surrey CR0 6BA
UK

Telephone: +44 181 680 9621
Fax:+44 181 667 0378
e-mail: 

George Antony > wrote:

>We are being increasingly targeted by various commercial advertisements.
>The recent ad on health record keeping is a typical "spammer" effort.  If we
>are not careful, we will be inundated by ads for special deals on catfood in
>Upper Volta.
>
>To fight against such loutish behaviour, please take a moment and send a
>complaint to the originator of the message AND the postmaster of the
>site (cut off the user's name in the Internet address before the @ sign
>and substitute "postmaster"), enclosing the offending post. (Save the message
>from your mailer, and the message header, written in the file, will mostly
>contain the originator's username in the line beginning with something like
>"Original message from:".  That file can then be attached to a message.)
>
>The problem starts when, as in this health-record case, there is no From:
>line in the message header.  Here we need the help of more experienced net
>users: how could we ensure that the originator is always shown ?  Would this
>require a change in the listserv program or is it a matter of setting the
>existing one ?  (Of course, we cannot trace determined fraudsters.)



Regarding the commercial advertisment "The Key To Organizing Your
Health Records":

On the phone number listed in the body of the Lifetime Health
Planner spam, an another company's clerk is answering, which is only
an order-filling place taking calls on behalf of the original poster.
After the clerk's declarations, the company in question is Cybersell,
1-602-661-5202.

As for the company's username, their account has been deleted and
disusered, according to a check of their system. First, the finger
answered with a "no such user" message, later it was completed as
follows:

~   % finger 
~   [seagull.rtd.com]
~   This user has been dis-usered and deleted due to innappropriate
~   behavior. We apologize for any inconvience this might have caused.
~
~   Dave Siegel (No relation at ALL to Canter & Segel)
~   President RTD Systems & Networking


Some more informations about the host:

~ RTD, Systems & Networking, Inc. (SEAGULL-HST)
~
~   Hostname: SEAGULL.RTD.COM
~   Address: 198.102.68.2
~   System: INTEL running UNIX
~
~   Host Administrator:
~      Siegel, David  (DS4)   
~      (602) 318-0696

I guess that in this case, a complaint to the host administrator won't
do any good... Indeed, it seems that the name of the President of the
RTD, Dave Siegel, is a mere coincidence with the C&S Canter & Segel,
Cybersale. He seems to be a victim of a hit-and-run spammers, as he now
gets tons of hatemail. I would suggest to not add to his embarrassement.

The spammers did the job in a professional manner, very quickly and
systematically, with the help of a utility (Cyberspam) and by forgery
in the From: field and in the access path. Covered were ALL the newsgroups
grouped in 2 - 5 randomly and the sender's address seems also changing.

Seems as if not all the net abuses were originating from THE motor
making company...

Roman Kanala

Dear fellow listmembers,

My ability to follow the activity on Hungary several times a day is for
the moment severely restricted, by the press of other work as my sabbatical
grinds to a close (all too rapidly), and by the less-than-state-of-the-art
Prague telephone system.  So I have had to sort out quite a backlog of
things recently, and I have a couple of comments that I hope you'll all
take in the spirit in which they are intended.

Hungary list has, since I first became a reader of it, and then its host
and "owner" at GWU, been an unmoderated list.  That is, as listowner I have
the dubious pleasure of answering to my university and its computer center
about the list, dealing with its activity on the mainframe, (most of this
usually means just coping with error messages, people who have trouble
unsubscribing and so on), but I do not have any control over the _content_ of
this list.  Since we went onto the usenet, leaving our quiet little bitnet
backwater, this has perhaps opened us up to some negative as well as positive
consequences.

I think overall the positive aspects of greater accessibility through
hix and bit.listserv.hungary mean more than the odd commercial junkmail
posting that is easier for some clown to do than it would have been if
we stayed bitnet-only (though of course they do get in there, too).  I
deplore this abuse of our list as much as any of you who have recently
expressed your opposition to the practice.  But I don't know how to stop it
in advance, except through preventive censorship, i.e. a moderated list that,
quite frankly, I cannot take on at this time (or the predictable future!).
The next best thing is to take the actions George Antony suggested when it
happens, or use your most expressive Hungarian curses, press the delete
key, and carry on.

There are admittedly areas of grey in this:  is the posting of an "employ-
ment wanted" notice a commercial abuse of the list?  Or a "flat for rent" in
Budapest?  I'm willing, personally, to consider these cases as acceptable.

A couple of other things.  It seems to me to be a very dicey business to
forward, unchanged, personal mail to the list.  With or without the writer's
permission, personal mail is by definition, personal.  Hungary-list relevant
content could be summarized, and that would save on volume, too.  And,
of course, when our inborn or infectious Magyar argumentativeness reaches
a certain point, the ongoing exchanges should also be carried on via private
e-mail!

And, I would also like to encourage the listmembers to continue to ignore what
look to me like pretty obvious "trolling" expeditions...

Szervusz, etc.  BTW I vote for the latin origin on this one, too,

Hugh Agnew


PS anyone wondering if there is a listowner out there, or who he is,
can simply send an e-mail to  with the message
"review hungary".  They'll also receive, free of charge, the unconcealed
names and e-mail addresses of the listmembers.

PPS Pick salami now Kc 435/kg = roughly $16 --Ah, the Czech economic miracle!

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

The New York Hungarian House
213 East 82nd Street
(between 2nd and 3rd Avenues)
New York, N.Y.  10028
Office: 212 249-9360 Lobby: 212 650-1974

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

The Hungarian House and the Hungarian Human Rights Foundation
announce the continuation of the English language lecture series on

Saturday, June 10, 1995 at 6 PM,

entitled

HUNGARY 2000 -- the view from Washington

by

Congressman Benjamin A. Gilman
Chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives
International Relations Committee

Our guest lecturer is uniquely equipped to speak of the U.S. relationship
with Hungary, the Hungarian minorities and Central Europe.  He is a 22 -
year veteran of the United States Congress from the 20th Congressional
District of New York; he has visited Hungary and the region several times
and he takes a deep interest in its peoples, its problems and aspiration.

Contributions to the Hungarian House:  $15 ($10 seniors/students)

*******************************************************************

Since I have a copy of the three-volume etymological dictionary I thought I
ought to copy the the possible etymology of "szia, szevasz, szervusz,
szerbusz, cerbusz," and other variants. First of all, the dictionary claims
that the greeting "szervusz" comes from Latin, which is obvious enough, via
German. It was first recorded in 1823, becoming quite common by the 1850s.
There is a reference to the etymology of "szevasz" in *Nyelvor* 75:363, and
specifically of "szia, szi" in *Nyelvor 76:305. I am sure that some of the
list members could find these references for us. Further and here I quote
directly: "`Szia' is most likely an abbreviated form of `sziasz,' which most
likely came from an undocumented variant `szeasz' of `szevasz.'"

I hope this helps,

Eva Balogh

Eva S. Balogh wrote:

: ...the dictionary claims
: that the greeting "szervusz" comes from Latin, which is obvious enough, via
: German. It was first recorded in 1823, becoming quite common by the 1850s.

OK, here's what I wish to know:  what if anything did `szervusz' replace?
Was there an equivalent (in terms of use, not literal meaning) Magyar salute
in use, say pre-1800?

--Greg

George to Gotthard:
>
>What is the Hungarian-issue content of a second-hand Chrysler being available
>somewhere in the USA ?  Could you, please, respect the charter of the list and
>restrict such ads to your local bulletin board.

Not to mention the likelyhood of George down under being interested in
testdriving it in the US East Coast. ;-)

Joe

Z. P. wrote:

>Why would the government need the inheritance tax paid in
>dollars from a Hungarian citizen?

Well, you missed my comment about the "valuta-kulfoldi" designation.
It used to be that as long as you lived in the West they wanted that
currency from you, not the forints you obtained by converting your
inheritence into cash.  They did it by designating you a
"valuta-kulfoldi".

I wasn't sure if this practice still existed.

Joe

Please Discontinue my subscription!!!!  It is clogging up my mail box!!!
Thank you, Kimberly Orr.