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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 18:32:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Hetzron >
To: HIX HUNGARY >
Subject: Re: Karinthy
In-Reply-To: >
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New Yorkban jelent meg egy konyv ezzel a cimmel: Humor Is No Laughing
Matter. Ez jol hangzik angolul, csak sajnos nem adja vissza Karinthy
mondasanak ertelmet (meg vagyok gyozodve, hogy a szerzo K-tol szerezte ezt
a mondast). A magyar kifejezes szinte fenyegeto.
	F.Gy. baratom szellemesen forditotta ezt le franciara: On Ne
Badine Pas Avec L'Humour (francia vigjatek cime: On ne Badine Pas Avec
L'Amour.		Udv,			Robert

Boy, do I hate those people who hate!!!!

How about, "I don't see anything funny about humor" ?


I'm just curious whether there is any etymological connection between the
words,
TREFA and TRIFLE.

"E'letem egy ke'prege'ny, festette ma's, e's e'lem e'n"

My life is a comics book that someone else drew and I live it.

Gabor D. Farkas

On 19 Mar 1996 14:21:52 -0800,  wrote:
>Reply-To: Hungarian Discussion List >
>
>Only a few days ago BLA electronic news service reported the findings of=
 the
>Hungarian Gallup Institute concerning antisemitism in Hungary on the bas=
is
>of voting patterns. The results are as follows. The question inquired ab=
out
>"dislike of Jews," "nem kedveli a zsidokat." The list is as follows. KFG=
P
>voters =3D 12%; KDNP voters =3D 11%, MSZD voters =3D 7%; MDF voters =3D =
6%;
>FIDESZ voters =3D 6%;l SZDSZ voters =3D 4%. One's first reaction is: tha=
t's not
>too bad. But then add up these percentages to get the reaction of all vo=
ters:
>it is 46%.

On 10 Apr 1996 19:02:17 -0000, 
wrote:
>English-speaking readers of this list may need to be advised of the
>well-documented fact that "Eva S. Balogh" is a pathological liar whose
>false accusations and anti-Hungarian hate-mongering deserves
>zero credibility... =


In the Thirties KARINTHY Frigyes wrote the following humoresque:

                              AZ ELFOGULATLAN KRITIKA

AZ EMBER TRAGEDIAJA. Szinhazi kritika a *Faji Targyilagos* egykoru
szamabol. Irta: Faj Lehel, ket valtozatban.

                                    ELSO VALTOZAT
(A szerkesztot tevesen ugy informaltak, hogy Madach... ize,
hogyismondjam csak)

     Az o Nemzeti (Neumann) Szinhazukban (Schwarcz), amit szegeny
magyar (Majer) k=F6z=F6nsegunkre ugy tukmaltak ra, mint soletet a rakott
kaposztara (Kohn), megint satoros unnepeket ultek a fajkobik. Valami
Madach-Mohnblum Imre (Izsak) teregeti ki elottunk bankjingli
kepzeletenek aporodott fajviragait, egy *Ember Tragediaja* cimu koser
pesti *vilagcikk*-ben, ami lehet nagyon hasznos az o specialis faji
szempontjukbol, de amihez keves koze van a magyarsagnak.
     Ebben a darabban minden szo burkoltan a pesti kozonseg faji
moralitasanak hizeleg, es ontudatlanul szolgalja a zsido uralomvagy
hegemonumentalis hekatombajat.  Ez a tipikusan pesti iro ugy halmozza
egymasra a jeleneteket, mint ahogy a tippeket halmozza a loversenyen,
ha a tataja tortenetesen nem pesti dramaironak, hanem - a fajparipa
erdekenek megfeleloen - totalizatornek neveli.
     A Mozes konyvebol kivagott Adam es Eva, akinek emelygoen
szentimentalis es keletien buja figurajaban Weiszne es Schwarcz a
korzorol okvetlenul magara ismer, mindenfele alakban es sokfele
korulmenyek kozott a _tortenelem fajpszichologiai alapon valo
meghamisitasaval_ vegigvonul Roman, Athenen, Bizancon, Pragan,
Parizson, Londonon, meg Gronlandba is eljutnak, _hja, tehetik, tellett
utazasra a chevra-hadisa alaptokejebol_, ugy utaznak idoben es terben,
mint a nemzetkozi zsido vigecek, akik expresszvonat a bolcsojuk es a
hazajuk.
     Valami *eszme*-rol is van szo a darabban, ami hol fellangol, hol
lehanyatlik a tortenelmi szinek folyaman - es a pesti kozonseg tombolo
lelkesedessel jutalmazta ezt a tipikusan zsido gondolatot, megertve a
bizomanyos-lelku szerzot, aki ezzel a tozsdei hausse-okra es
baisse-ekre akarta felhivni fajsorsainak figyelmet. Arrol nem is
beszelve, hogy a francia forradalom tipikusan zsido beallitasa mintegy
csendes utalaskeppen a zsido erem masik voros (Roth) oldalara milyen
szovetsegladai edes muzsika volt az erre berendezett kajla fuleknek.
     Mit mondjuk a darab mesejerol? Pesti mese ez, a Lipotvarosbol,
kulonfele korokba *atszerelve*: Adam (Adler) es Eva (Epstein)
tortenelemszallito ceg moricka-elkepzelese a faraorol *most divatban
van Tutankhamen!*, Miltiadeszrol, Tankredrol, Keplerrol, Dantonrol:
elokepek, amiket komptoarista jinglik es rifkek adnak elo a zsuron.
Kozonseg es szerzo megertettek egymast a szineszeken keresztul,
akiknek nagyresze szinten zsido szarmazas. =

     Mindebbe mi mar belenyugodtunk - de azt mar megsem lehet szo
nelkul hagyni, amit a ruhatarban hallottam, kilesve ket hitsorsos
beszelgeteset, akik nem vettek eszre, hogy jelen vagyok. Ez a zsido
azt kozolte a masikkal, hogy ket libat vett, es a szavaibol
hatarozottan kivettem - ezt tanukkal is igazolom -, hogy az egyik liba
feher volt, a masik pedig barna!!
     Nem tudom, szabad-e meg ebben az orszagban kifejezest adni a
magyarsag sorsat felto. zsidokezen elnyomott nemzeti gondolatnak - de
mint ennek az elnyomott magyarsagnak utolso vegvara es lelkiismerete,
kotelessegemnek tartom ezuton felhivni az igazsagugyi es kereskedelmi
minisztereket, hajlandok-e vegre rendet teremteni, es energikusan,
minden kerteles es *jogrendi* erzekenykedes nelkul felszolitani a
zsidot, hogy susd meg zsido a libat, mert nem vettel egyformat?!! Mert
ha nem - mi majd jogrend es miniszter nelkul fogjuk megkerdezni tole
-, de abban nem lesz koszonet!!

                       MASODIK VALTOZAT
            (Kiderult, hogy dehogy! a nagyapja se!)

Tegnapi cikkunkbe nehany ertelemzavaro sajtohiba csuszott. Igy a
*magyarsag legnagyobb erteke* helyett *zsido zagyvalek*-ot, *hatalmas
mualkotas* helyett *koser pesti buzbombat*, *valodi dramai remekmu*
helyett *zsido jingliknek valo zsargonirodalom* szavakat szedett a
szorakozott szedo. Mint utolag ertesulunk, Madach Imre elsorangu
esemenye irodalmunknak, es igy kerjuk az egesz cikket, mint
ertelemzavaro sajtohibat, targytalannak tekinteni. Egyebken a zsido
szedot, aki az egesz bajt csinalta, mar elbocsatottuk.

---------

At 02:09 13/04/96 -0400,  JFerengi > wrote:

>I'm just curious whether there is any etymological connection between the
>words,
>TREFA and TRIFLE.

An etymological connection exists indeed:

According to the *Magyar Nyelv Torteneti-Etimologiai Szotara, III:986* the
Hung. word *trefa* originates from Italian *truffa, truffare* 'to cheat, to
swindle' (ppr. 'olasz eredetu szocsalad, esetleg latin kozvetitessel')

The Italian word _truffa_ is related to Ancient Provencal *trufo (from Late
Latin *tufra, *tufera) in the meaning of 'raillery, mockery, little jest',
dimin. of _truffe_ 'a gibe, jest'.

The English word  _trifle_ has a French origin too: cp. Middle English:
trufle, trefle, rarely trifle.

At 16:01 10/04/96 GMT, you wrote:

> I would like to know if anyone on this group can
>suggest resources, web pages or books with information about native,
>"pagan", pre-Christian religions of Hungary.
>

At the time of the conquest of Hungary (9th century of our era) the Magyars
were a group made up by people of different nationalities: Turks, Xazars,
Alans, Huns etc.

According to Arab writers the nomadizing Magyars were "fire worshippers".
This possibly means that many of them had some sort of Iranic creed.

Some scholars posit that the creed of the Magyars "had to be" shamanism,
owing to the fact that some of the "far relatives" of the Hungarians are
shamanists. Unfortunately, there's no evidence so far to support such a
theory which is sometimes given for granted and acquitted.

Even the phenomenon of the so-called "taltos"-ok or "regoes"-oek  (the
Hungarian name of the could-be shamans) might be related to borrowings which
took place from other European cultures (e.g. the so-called Fahrende
Schueler in Germany and Austria, as well as the so-called Benandanti in
Northern Italy, etc.)

Archeological findings going back to the time of original settlement (i.e.
the last years of the 9th century and the beginning of the 10th century)
show that there were some Christians among  the Magyars:  out of the approx.
12,000 graves excavated till now, the dead had a cross hung on the neck in
12 or 14 cases.

 A minority among the first Magyar settlers of Hungary  was of Mosaic creed
(see: Kiss, A.: 11th Century Khazar Rings from Hungary with Hebrew Letters
and Signs, in: Acta Archaeologica Acad. Scient. Hungarica 22,1970 pp. 341-348).

To date - since Islamic graves have no particular shibbolet - no finding
support MHO that there might have been Muslim among them - although several
words of Arabic origin can be found in Hungarian (e.g. dij  (ancient) 'blood
money' from Arabic dija of same meaning; hasab 'billet of firewood, log'
from Arabic hashab 'wood';  (anc. Hung.) habr(-osag), today haboru 'war'
from Arabic harb 'war'; tavol 'far, distant' from Arabic tawil 'long,
distant', idoe 'time' from Arabic iddae 'period of time, time length' and so on
)

IMHO we ought not talk of pre-Christian religions, since the  Christian
faith was one out of the many creeds professed by the Magyar settlers.

In article >, Aniko Dunford
> says:
>
>At 08:28 PM 4/12/96 GMT, you wrote:
>>In article >, Dunfords >
>>says:
>>>
>>>>That time frame alone?
>>>Yes George, for the third time.
>>
>>Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

>Hi George!
>Cute!..By George...you've got it!  Working on finding those jokes:)
>Aniko

For your edification, it is *not* a joke...simple immaturity is
*not* humorous, except to juveniles. Working with children means
that I have to deal with this sort of stuff on a daily basis: I
don't need it on the 'net as well, thanks anyway. Over and out.

George