Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Demographical Catastrophy i (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Demographical Catastrophy i (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Admiral on Horseback (mind)  188 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: info on expo (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Looking for a friend (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Looking for a friend (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
7 The Fate of a Hero (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Demographical Catastrophy i (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear ..Kornyesz!
I suggest you look into the effect of the Chernobil disaster!
Respiratory and cancerous ailments are most likely related to that
+ - Re: Demographical Catastrophy i (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Diana1 Sorry for the previous addressing Please read the reply I
meant it for you
+ - Re: Admiral on Horseback (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

My dear friend Joe writes:

>>        Hungary's Admiral on Horseback
>>        Miklos Horthy, 1918-1944
>>Columbia University Press, 1994.
>>The book is well documented and gives a balanced picture of this
>>historical figure.
>I hope Tony Pace will also get a hold of it so he may tone down his
>rabid characterization of Horthy as demonstrated in the following
>recent exchange on the Slovak-L list.  He responded to a moderate Slovak's
>comments, denoted with the ">" prefixes:
>>Both Munich and Jalta meant something else, that the region became
>>an easy food for some big, dangerous neighbour, against the will of
>>the people, under pressure of a strong political influence that ended
>>up in both cases in an open military occupation of the country.
>Its interesting that the occupation of southern Slovakia by Horthy's
>stormtroopers in 1939 and the subsequent deportations of 40,000 Jews
>by them are never mentioned in your reference to the period 1939-1945.

Joe, since you brought-up the topic to this list, may I ask why neither
you (nor anyone else) had previously commented on Joost van Beek's
posting of July 7, 1994 on the Subject: deportations
in which Joost van Beek wrote:

>In the Hungarian Quarterly Tamas Stark has written an article called
>"Hungarian Jewry at the time of the Holocaust and after the war (1941-1955).
>I promised to send you the statistics given in the article.
>Jewish population before the German occupation of Hungary x1000
>           Buda-  Prov-  Total Present  Sub-Carpath.+N-Transylv.  TOTAL
>           pest   inces  territ.        +North.+South.territories HUNGARY
>..in 1941  240    240    480            110+150+45+15             800
Therefore, according to Tamas Stark's article in the Hungarian Quarterly
the Jewish population of occupied Northern-territories numbered 45,000.

>Victims of the 1941 deportation and Killed in Action/POW casualties of
>forced labour service:
>            13     13     26            6+7+4+1                    44
>Population before occupation:
>           227    227    454            104+143+41+14             756
Tamas Stark identified the number of victims from Northern territories
as 41,000.

>Deported in the summer of 1944:
>            10    170    180            85+130+30+10              435
>After the deportation:
>           217     57    274            19+13+11+4                321
>The hypothetical number of Hungarian Jews at liberation/in 1945-6 x 1000
>Jewish population after the deportation:
>             "      "      "                      "                 "
>Labour service men lost as POW/Killed in Action, together with those
>murdered or deported under Szalasi and with all emigrants:
>            67     22     89                2+2+3+1                97
>Population at liberation:
>           150     35    185               17+17+8+3              224
>Number of Jews returned in 1945/46:
>                          85               18+30+7+1.5            141
>Jewish population of wartime Hungary in 1946:
>                         270               35+41+15+4.5           365
>(Northern Territories: now in Slovakia; Southern Territories: Vojvodina)

Tamas Stark identified the occupied Northern Terrritories with Slovakia.

>Where did Tamas Stark get her figures from?
>The figure of 800.000 Jews in the Hungary of 1941 ("including baptized
>Jews") is "based on the 1941 census returns, and taking into consideration
>the most recent analyses of the Central Bureau of Statistics"
> (Note nr.2: "A magyarorszagi zsidosag statisztikaja telepulesenkent" -
>settlement statistics of the Hungarian Jewry/ Central Bureau of Statistics,
>Budapest, 1993; "A kereszteny vallasu, de zsido szarmazasu nepesseg a
>nepszamlalas szerint" - Census Figures of Jewish Converts to Christianity/
>Magyar Statisztikai Szemle, 1944, No.4-5, pp.95-103.)
>The number of 44.000 victims of the 1941 deportations/the forced labour
>batallions was compiled from different sources.
>"Decree no. 192/1941, issued by the Ministry of the Interior on 12th July,
>suspended [the] liberal treatment. The police were directed to take foreign
>Jews to the Subcarpathian village of Korosmezo and hand them over to the
>military authorities. Approximately 18.000 were deported to Eastern
>Galicia...; this is the figure recorded by the Central Authority for the
>Control of Foreigners, the institution "supervising the organization of
>deportations". German sources ... estimate the number of deportees at
>11.000. (...) Ukrainian policemen rounded up the deportees in the second
>half of August. The mass murder that followed was presumably carried out by
>Einsatzgruppe C. (...)at least 2.000 deportees later fled back to Hungary"
>   (Note no.3: "Az elso magyarorszagi deportalas" - The First Hungarian
>Deportation/ Uj Elet Naptar - New Life Calendar, 1960-61, Budapest, 1960)
>With "foreign Jews" probably those Jews that fled to Hungary from Poland,
>Rumania and Slovakia are meant.
>According to the article, the massacre at Novi Sad cost the life of 4.000,
>of whom 1.000 Jews.
>"...undisguised brutality on the part of the Hungarian Army" also killed
>many Jews. "As a result of ill treatment, casualty rates among Jews in
>forced labour service units exceeded combat casualties". "By the end of 1943,
>the losses suffered by forced labour service units in the campaign against
>the Soviet Union totalled 24.000 (13.000 recorded as Killed in Action,
>11.000 as POWs). Of the forced labourers taken to Bor, in Serbia, 4.000 lost
>their lives."  (Note no.4: Archives for Military History: HM Vkf. 1946 eln
>299 cs.)
>The number of 435.000 Jews deported between May 15th and July 8th of 1944
>"appears in three unrelated contemporary sources": Laszlo Ferenczy, a
>Lieutenant-Colonel of the Gendarmerie involved in implementing the
>deportations, gave the figure 434.351; "the figure of 401.439 people,
>registered by the Kassa railway station command, is also precise, as
>approximately 20.000 to 30.000 persons were taken via routes that did not go
>through Kassa. The National Jewish Executive Committee recorded 412.000
>deportees. Reich Kommissar Edmund Veesenmayer estimated 430.000 Jews to have
>been "transported to the territory of the Reich".
>Two categories escaped deportation: the Budapest Jews and those in forced
>labour service. How many Jews were in forced labour batallions?
>"Tables compiled by the Registrars Department of the Ministry of Defence
>enable us to follow the number of Jews in forced labour service from the very
>beginning right up to March 1944".
>As for the numbers given as "labour service men lost as POWs/Killed in
>Action" after this time, "The records kept by the Casualties Department of the
>Ministry of Defence provide reliable data on the losses up to October 31st
>The number of victims of the Arrowcross regime is based on "records kept by
>neutral embassies and relevant authoritative sources" who mention 50.000
>Jews as being handed over to the Germans. (Note no.15:"The Final Solution",
>Gerald Reitlinger, London, 1953; "The Atlas of the Holocaust", Martin
>Gilbert, New York, 1982; "October Fifteenth. History of Modern Hungary,
>1927-1945", C.A.Macartney, Edinburgh, 1961)
>"A further 15.000 fell victim to the terrorism perpetrated by Arrowcross
>organizations and to increased wartime mortality" (Note no.16: Budapest
>Statistical Yearbook, 1948).
>"... almost 10.000 Jews managed to emigrate or escape in 1944" (Note no.17:
>"A magyarorszagi zsidosag megsemmisitese" - The Destruction of Hungarian
>Jewry. "1944-1945 MIOK Evkonyv" - 1944-45 MIOK Yearbook, 1984)
>The estimate on the number of deported Jews who returned after the war is
>based on several sources. The DEGOB (National Relief Committee for
>Deportees), financed by the American Joint Distribution Committee, kept a
>record of returning deportees,  (in May and June '45, 47.500 persons
>returned, in July, August and September a further 29.157), but records break
>off after September 1945. The Department for Social Security of Returning
>Deportees in the Ministry of Public Welfare notes 5.000 deportees returning
>in 1946. Before the setting up of the DEGOB also 4.000 to 5.000 deportees
>had already returned, this number recorded by the Ministry of Welfare.
>"There is only an aggregate figure available for those who returned to the
>Sub-Carpathian territories, to Northern Transylvania, to the Northern... and
>to the Southern Territories. The total for these regions, as recorded by the
>Hungarian Section of the World Jewish Congress from an American Joint
>Distribution Committee source, is 56.600." The division among these various
>territories Tamas Stark has determined comparing census data.
>A particular tragical case mentioned in the article is that of the 10.000
>labour servicemen who fell into Russian captivity, together with their
>former guard members, in 1943- no liberation: hardly any of them survived in
>the POW camps of Marshansky and Davidovka.
>All in all 365.000 Jews who lived in the wartime territory of Hungary:
>may have survived the Holocaust, but many emigrated soon afterwards.
>"Approximately 80.000 - 100.000 Jews had left the territory within the 1944
>borders by the mid-fifties" of whom about 60.000 went to Israel.
>Tamas Stark concludes her article noting:
>"The emigrants found new homes; but the peoples living in the region
>suffered an irreplaceable loss by losing a large percentage of their Jewish
+ - Re: info on expo (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> The EXPO was cancelled !!!

As I am recently new to this list I spend most of my time just listening in.
This came as a surprise. Is it the EXPO I think it is!?! (i.e. World EXPO 1996)

I know several people who are supposedly going to work at EXPO. I even hoped
to make it myself although that is not now likely.

Can someone please fill me in.

Regards Duncan

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan Dunning
Centre for Building Performance Research
School of Architecture                          Telephone +64 4 802 6221
Victoria University of Wellington               Fax       +64 4 802 6204
P.O Box 600                                     E-Mail 
New Zealand
+ - Re: Looking for a friend (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Sun, 5 Feb 1995, Vanessa Whitaker wrote:
>         I have a friend who is attending the Medical University of Debrecen.
> He does not know how to use the e-mail system and standard mail often takes
> six weeks or more to arrive.

        That's odd.  It takes little over a week for mail from my relatives to

+ - Re: Looking for a friend (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Sun, 5 Feb 1995, Vanessa Whitaker wrote:
>         I have a friend who is attending the Medical University of Debrecen.
> He does not know how to use the e-mail system and standard mail often takes
> six weeks or more to arrive.

Well, "standard mail" is probably surface mail, so use air mail.  That
will only take about a week to get there.

+ - The Fate of a Hero (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

An updated version of a book first published in 1982 has come out and
can be highly recommended to the readership of this Discussion Group. It

        Kati Marton, Wallenberg: Missing Hero
        Arcade Pub., New York, 1995 (paperback)

Recently, at a literary gathering, Kati Marton was asked about the
latest information on the fate of Wallenberg. She said that based on
archival material which has become available, there are strong
indications that Wallenberg was executed by the Soviets already in 1947.
The Russians thought that he was a double agent.

The book has a poignant dedication: To the memory of those Hungarians
for whom Raoul Wallenberg arrived too late.