Sandy G Perkins writes:

> The less-than-latent nationalist, or the looney right-wing nationalist?
> I'm not either.  And I would hope that most of you who read my messages
> take me at face value and don't look for hidden agenda's or veiled
> political statements.
>
> And by 'pure', I mean that which makes us human -- in all that entails.
> The weakness along with the strengths.  The ability to express feelings
> with honesty and not be shunned or looked down on.  The zest for life.
> And most of all the unchanging recipe for chicken soup!

Loony right-wing nationalists I can put up with -- they always add a
welcome note of hilarity to the proceedings -- but I must register a
strong objection to this business about the "unchanging recipe for
chicken soup".  Here we have an obvious calumny that must be strenuously
opposed at every turn.  Hungarian chicken soup comes in many shapes
and flavors.  A thorough classification of Hungarian chicken soup
recipes would start with some of the major subdivisions.  Just to
mention the main fault lines: whole chicken vs. chicken chopped into
little pieces; with lemon juice or without.  The universe of Hungarian
chicken soup naturally divides into four quadrants on the basis of
just these two criteria.  And there are others.  They all exist side
by side.  I was born and raised in the "whole chicken, no lemon juice"
school, then rashly married into a family swearing by the "chopped
chicken, oodles of lemon juice" recipe, and in time learned to make
and enjoy both variants.  Instead of an "unchanging recipe", an
unbiased observer would find that the world of Hungarian chicken
soup is a world characterized by the cardinal Hungarian virtues of
pluralism and tolerance.  So there.

-----
Gabor Fencsik

At 01:53 AM 7/12/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Sandy G Perkins writes:
>
>
Dearest Gabor:

I'm sorry you didn't catch the fact that I was being in exact agreement
with your above statement, but I was saying it facetiously.  My whole point
of the entire message is that the Hungarians are a diverse, vibrant people
who are thinkers and have ideas, and sometimes their discussion of those
ideas can get pretty loud.  The chicken soup recipe is a prime example of
this and is also a metaphor in my eyes.

I guess from the messages that I have been receiving from this group that I
better tone down my sense of humor, and not assume everyone is tuned in to
the unusual ways I sometimes view the world.

My goodness, I see I'm going to have to work hard before I'm seen for who I
truly am, and not by the labels that so quickly have gotten pasted to my
back --- I need to warn you though, any label that says "kick me" will be
quickly returned to the giver!!

I didn't join to add fuel to a fire.  I joined to help keep the soup
simmering on the stove.  We may not all agree upon the recipe, but I would
hope we would all defend the right for chicken soup (in whatever form it
happens to be in) to exist.

(I just saw Joe's note - seems he agrees with this too, thanks)

In my own family, there was always conflict over the chicken soup recipe
after my grandmother died.  We all remembered it differently.  Our
discussions were usually held around the big dinning room table, as we ate
a bowl of chicken soup.  And regardless of the particular recipe of that
day, we all enjoyed it.

Now please, tell me.  Am I being tested to see if I qualify for the group?
I certainly hope I do qualify, there is some pretty amazing stuff posted
here and it is really helping me get a larger, more informed understanding
of the political situations and the many factions that are present in our
world today.  Not just in the country, but that affect Hungarians
everywhere.

The little personal diversions are a healthy break from the intensity of
the larger picture.  It keeps us in mind that we are individuals after all.
 Be concerned and involved in the larger picture -- but don't forget the
individuals that make up that whole.

And I see that there will be many worthy opponents here -- and I hope that
through the process you will come to consider me friend.

Sandy

At 01:53 AM 7/12/97 -0700, Gabor Fencsik in "Re: i must speak", wrote:

>Loony right-wing nationalists I can put up with -- they always add a
>welcome note of hilarity to the proceedings -- but I must register a
>strong objection to this business about the "unchanging recipe for
>chicken soup".  Here we have an obvious calumny that must be strenuously
>opposed at every turn.  Hungarian chicken soup comes in many shapes
>and flavors.  A thorough classification of Hungarian chicken soup
>recipes would start with some of the major subdivisions.  Just to
>mention the main fault lines: whole chicken vs. chicken chopped into
>little pieces; with lemon juice or without.  The universe of Hungarian
>chicken soup naturally divides into four quadrants on the basis of
>just these two criteria.  And there are others.  They all exist side
>by side.  I was born and raised in the "whole chicken, no lemon juice"
>school, then rashly married into a family swearing by the "chopped
>chicken, oodles of lemon juice" recipe, and in time learned to make
>and enjoy both variants.  Instead of an "unchanging recipe", an
>unbiased observer would find that the world of Hungarian chicken
>soup is a world characterized by the cardinal Hungarian virtues of
>pluralism and tolerance.  So there.

Not so fast, Gabor.  My mother's chicken soup recipe never changed.  And
she got the recipe from her mother, who got it from her mother, etc., etc..
 And it didn't matter if it was called Tyu'kleves, Csirkeleves, U'jha'zi
Tyu'k Leves, or whatever.  The recipe was the same.  Mind you, they knew
that the recipe was a bit different several villages away, but they never
went *that* far.  So, I'd say that Sandy Gostel Perkins was correct in
speaking about the "unchanging chicken soup recipe".

Joe Szalai

"An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a
cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup."
         -- H. L. Mencken

Joe Szalai wrote:
>

> Although I signed the petition, NATO membership for both Hungary and
> Romania would not mean that tensions over the Hungarian minority in
> Romania will cease forthwith.

The same applies to me. You are right indeed. But, I hope that the
framework would improve significantely.

 NATO already has two members who have been
> at each other's throats for decades.  Greece and Turkey became NATO
> members in 1952 and have been fighting over Cyprus since its independence
> from Britain.
>
How true between Greeks and Turks! The threat to a peacefull
arrangemment are the nationalists of both sides - even if they might
call themselves patriots.

Still I hope this case could potentially work better.
HKM

MKH

Sandy Gostel Perkins wrote:
>
> Miklos,
>
> I've sent a plea for this cause to a contact at the Vatican.  I don't know
> where it will lead, if anywhere, but I send it with my prayers and faith.

Maybe, Constantinescu is more prepared to help than Vojtyla...
And, mind you, the Catholic Church stresses, again and again, the
right of the people to worship in their mothertongues...
Miklos

A.J.Vadasz wrote:
>
> You wrote:
> >Romania would not mean that tensions over the Hungarian minority in
> >Romania will cease forthwith.  NATO already has two members who have been
> >at each other's throats for decades.  Greece and Turkey became NATO
> >members in 1952 and have been fighting over Cyprus since its independence
> >from Britain.
> >
> >Joe Szalai
> >
> I agree with you. About the best thing I heard is that NATO had prevented
> these two countries from going to war. My guess is that Turkey was invited
> into NATO largely because of its geographical position: control of the
> Bosporus, plus air bases and radar sites. The EU on the other hand has no
> such things to consider and Turkey so far has not been allowed, partly
> because of its Kudish minority policies. In the long run the EU is a far
> better organization to monitor and remedy minority oppression.

As an EU citizen, my confidence in the workings of EU is somewhat
lesser. ( See Bosnia ). Still, within EU, there are goog examples of
minority problems may become less relevant. There is e.g. a mutual
discrimination in the good sense of minorities on both sides of the
German-Danish border. ( I must admit, however, that this border was
drawn after WWI by a plebiscite ( due to an explicite request of the
Danish ) and not by the arbitrary dicisions of the US-Anglo-French
coalition )
MKH