In article >, Joe Szalai
> writes:

>Ok, Sam.  Let's try this again.
>
>I told you that Hegel, Vico, Spengler, and Popper, have precious little
to
>do with my comments.  And now you tell me that they have everything to do
>with it.  So?
>
>Tell me this, Sam.  Does the name Pavlov, ring a bell with *you*?
>
>Joe Szalai
>
>

You're just being a ding-dong again, Joe. Vico, Hegel and Spengler are the
prime philosophical founts of historicism. Your political views are
heavily informed by the historicist idea that human history leads from
some definable schema to another, be it utopian or dystopian, and that
history can be used to predict the future with a great degree of
confidence. From there it's a short step to your perpetual whining about
what's so funny about peace, love and understanding. Popper challenged
that tradition ("The Poverty of Historicism" is a short read and has the
added attraction of being obscure enough that Gyorgy Soros is unlikely to
grab onto it as subject matter the next time he feels the overwhelming
urge to bloviate in the pages of the Atlantic Monthly) and he's not the
only one. Sir Isaiah Berlin's collection of essays, "The Crooked Timber of
Humanity," also challenges the assumptions of historicist tradition. I
would urge you to read both philosophers, Joe, but I know how hard you've
worked to cement your mind shut. Let me, however, just remind you what
George Santayana said: "Those who refuse to learn from the past are
destined to work the drive-through window."
Sam Stowe

"Missionaries and cannibals
make perfect couples..."
-- Paul Theroux

In article >,
Janos Zsargo > writes:

>Subject:       Re: Propaganda!
>From:  Janos Zsargo >
>Date:  Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:52:39 -0500
>
>S.Stowe wrote to F.Novak:
>
>>Well-deserved rebuke my ass. And if I were intellectually challenged,
you
>>wouldn't constantly be making an idiot out of yourself responding to me.
>
>He got this one right, Ferenc. Don't descend to his primitive level by
>responding him, please! He makes fool out of himself and destroy his
>credibility by his own post.
>
>J.Zs

It's "a" fool, Janos, and God knows, if anyone should know the proper
grammar associated with the use of the word "fool" in English, it's you.
Speaking of ruining credibility, you're leaving muddy footprints all over
Frank's. He and Johanne have been trying to make it sound like butter
wouldn't melt in your mouth. Nice to hear from you. Have you made any
progress towards becoming something more intellectually respectable than a
revisionist schmuck? You know, good beer halls where a guy and his
jack-booted pals can launch putsches are pretty few and far between these
days.
Sam Stowe

"Missionaries and cannibals
make perfect couples..."
-- Paul Theroux

****************** CALL FOR ACTION ****************

Priority:
    normal

Background:
    The Danube lawsuit  at the International Court in The Hague will 
open delayed in March, 1997. This lawsuit will adjudicate on 
the dispute between Hungary and Slovakia concerning the rerouting of 
the Danube onto Slovak territory. It is essential that we gain the 
support of world public opinion.  We have only 6 weeks, please help. 
    Krisztina Medonca has UPDATED her homepage for the protection of 
the Danube. We have to reach, that as much people as possible read it.

What to do:
  Please help in starting a chain letter. Send the attached letter to 
at least 5 of your friends. Such a chain letter, if started only by 
a thousand people, but resent by each recipient to their friends, 
could wake public opinion. PLEASE ACT!!


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Dear Friends,

an environmental activist has dedicated a section of her Web
site to the restoration of the famous Danube Wetlands, which were 
destroyed by the building of a disastrous power plant in Slovakia. 
Please take a moment to read the attached summary and visit the 
recently UPDATED site. 

www.goodpoint.com/duna.htm

Summary: In the mid 80's Slovakia (the country formerly known as
half of Czechoslovakia) began construction on a series of dams aimed
at generating hydroelectricity.  The plan was originally based on a
1977 agreement with Hungary, requiring the diversion of the Danube,
the border river shared by the two countries. Considerable pressure
from the former Soviet Union influenced the agreement. When it became
apparent that the plan would result in catastrophic environmental
damage Hungary backed out of the agreement.  Slovakia went ahead and
illegally diverted the river, depriving Hungary of her natural
resource. The result is devastating environmental and economic damage
to Hungary, all for a mere 2-3% of Slovakia's electricity needs. In
February the International Court of Justice will begin hearings on
this case, the first environmental issue ever brought before the
Court. The ruling could have long term effects and set environmental
precedents around the globe.

Please help spread the word to friends and acqaintances who may
want to know about this important issue. PLEASE SEND 5 COPIES OF 
THIS MESSAGE IN 96 HOURS.

Thanks for your attention.

****************** CALL FOR ACTION ****************

Priority:
    normal

Background:
    The Danube lawsuit  at the International Court in The Hague will
open delayed in March, 1997. This lawsuit will adjudicate on
the dispute between Hungary and Slovakia concerning the rerouting of
the Danube onto Slovak territory. It is essential that we gain the
support of world public opinion.  We have only 6 weeks, please help.
    Krisztina Medonca has UPDATED her homepage for the protection of
the Danube. We have to reach, that as much people as possible read it.

What to do:
  Please help in starting a chain letter. Send the attached letter to
at least 5 of your friends. Such a chain letter, if started only by
a thousand people, but resent by each recipient to their friends,
could wake public opinion. PLEASE ACT!!


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Dear Friends,

an environmental activist has dedicated a section of her Web
site to the restoration of the famous Danube Wetlands, which were
destroyed by the building of a disastrous power plant in Slovakia.
Please take a moment to read the attached summary and visit the
recently UPDATED site.

www.goodpoint.com/duna.htm

Summary: In the mid 80's Slovakia (the country formerly known as
half of Czechoslovakia) began construction on a series of dams aimed
at generating hydroelectricity.  The plan was originally based on a
1977 agreement with Hungary, requiring the diversion of the Danube,
the border river shared by the two countries. Considerable pressure
from the former Soviet Union influenced the agreement. When it became
apparent that the plan would result in catastrophic environmental
damage Hungary backed out of the agreement.  Slovakia went ahead and
illegally diverted the river, depriving Hungary of her natural
resource. The result is devastating environmental and economic damage
to Hungary, all for a mere 2-3% of Slovakia's electricity needs. In
February the International Court of Justice will begin hearings on
this case, the first environmental issue ever brought before the
Court. The ruling could have long term effects and set environmental
precedents around the globe.

Please help spread the word to friends and acqaintances who may
want to know about this important issue. PLEASE SEND 5 COPIES OF
THIS MESSAGE IN 96 HOURS.

Thanks for your attention.

Hi, Joe and Listmembers!

At 07:08 04/02/97 -0500, Joe wrote:
>At 04:40 AM 2/4/97 GMT, Sam Stowe, responding to Johanne Tournier, wrote:
>
><snip>
>>By the way, as a scientific aside, if we got you and Szalai in the same
>>room together at the same time, how much energy would the resultant
>>political matter/anti-matter collision release?
>
>None.  Johanne would regale me with stories about that bloodsucking Dracula,
>and I'd regale her with spine chilling stories about bloodsucking
>capitalists.  I'm sure we'd have a great time.
>
>Joe Szalai

But of course! Besides our mutual interest in various kinds of bloodsuckers,
Joe and I could discuss the relative merits of Library of Congress versus
Dewey Decimal classification!

Actually, Joe and I have some aspects of our political philosophy in common,
despite the fact that he comes at them from a leftie point of view, and I of
course am a rightie, and that, I believe is that we dislike power groups
over which we have little or no control having power over our lives.
Wouldn't that be fair to say, Joe?

BTW, now that I have had my two cents worth - isn't this a silly thread
anyway? And shouldn't we start a couple with more Hungarian content? I've
got one that I will throw out by the weekend.

TTFN :-))

Johanne/Janka
Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail -