> napjaink egyik legjobb uzlete. Mert par meter kabelert ezreket elkerni
 > DOLLARBAN nem megvetendo nyereseget hozhat. De teny, hogy ezek sokkal
 > jobban "mukodnek", ezert is van rajuk kereslet. Ugyanigy a "johangu"
 > tuskeslabu hifi asztalokra. Teny, hogy ezekre helyezve a hifi eszkozoket
 > - igen az erositot, CDjatszot IS - azok sokkal jobban szolnak. Senki sem
 > hulye szazezreket, egyes esetekben milliokat fizetni hifi allvanyokert,
 > ha azoknak nem erzekeli a hasznat. Ilyen termekeket [kabel, allvany]

Erre lenne egy megjegyzesem. Tortenetesen reszt vettem egy hollywoodi
studiok szamara keszitett hangszerkentyu fejleszteseben. Ezek utan
megkerdeznem, hogy azok a hangmernokok, akik *orankent* mintegy 1000
dollarert dolgoznak, meghalljak, hogy egy 100ms -os fade-in nem valodi 
exponencialis, hanem csak 3 darabonkent linearis egyenessel lett
kozelitve es morognak a 80dB jel-zaj viszonyra, hogy mennyire
sistereg, meghallanak (valoban meghallanak) 1 mintanyi dropoutot,
szoval ok miert nem tesznek reztusket az asztalra es rezszogeket a
studio ablakkertetebe ? Feltetelezve, hogy azert valamit ok is
hallanak, es a berendezeseik nem az egy-ket ezer dollaros, hanem a
10 - 100 ezer dollaros holmikbol kerultek ki (az a doboz, amin en is
dolgoztam, mintegy $40k es egymasra hanynak altalaban vagy 3-4 -et, es
ez csak egy dobozka a sokbol ami ott all, es messze nem a legdragabb),
megsem erzik ugy, hogy kell a reztuske es a szenszalas delkelet fele
huzott csupasz rezkabel.
Pedig ok megtehetnek, hisz azert keresnek ennyit, mert ugyanabbol a
hanganyagbol ok olyat hoznak ki, ami 'dogosen' szol szemben a
csoroval, aki egyszeruen csak nagyon jot csinal. Igy aztan, ha ok azt
mondjak, hogy ez kell, mert ettol lesz majd a darab 'feeling'-es meg
ilyesmik, a reztusken mar nem mulna.

Zoltan

Mar megint hifi-varazslas. Kedves kollegak, legalabb valami referenciat is
mellekelnetek.

> =======================================================
> Felado :  [Hungary]
> Temakor: hifi ( 120 sor )
> Idopont: Wed May 13 22:35:10 EDT 1998 TUDOMANY #421
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> hatasmechanizmus ismeretlensegerol van szo. Mert ezeknek az
> effektusoknak a lete tudomanyosan kielegito vak tesztekkel bizonyithato.
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ referencia?
> Akkor pedig leteznek. Peldaul az, hogy egyes szimmetrikus szerkezetu
 ...
> DOLLARBAN nem megvetendo nyereseget hozhat. De teny, hogy ezek sokkal
> jobban "mukodnek", ezert is van rajuk kereslet. Ugyanigy a "johangu"
Ez nem TUDOMANYos erv, bocs. Ha valamit megvesznek, az *biztosan* csak azt
mutatja, hogy van ra igeny. Hogy miert van ra igeny, mas lapra tartozik.

Kisse sarkitva es profanul: kepzeld el, hogy elkezdenek a piacon
aranytojast tojo tyukot arulni. A tyukbol megvesznek harmat (valoszinuleg
akadna harom ember). Ez azt jelenti szerinted, hogy az a harom tyuk,
amit megvettek, aranytojast fog tojni?

Tovabba:
> kulonbseg meghallhato lenne. De aki nem nagyon suket, az meggyozodhet
> errol a nagymerteku kulonbsegrol, ha ellatogat egy highend kereskedo
> bemutatotermebe. Az LP diadalmasan szebben szol, mint a CD.
 ...
> olyan sulyos, mint az egesz asztalka. De hogy igy van, arrol nem vagyok
> hajlando vitatkozni. Mint ahogy ellenorizheto tenyekrol nem is illik.

Itt van egy ellenorizheto teny, "nem nagyon suket" emberekkel, nem is
tegnaprol, hanem ot esztendovel ezelottrol (remelem, nem moderaljak ki,
direkt nem forditottam le a szoveghuseg vegett, eleg konnyu szoveg): 

Is it CD or is it vinyl? Only 1 in 40 knows
> ===========================================
Claus-Peter Sesin, Hamburg
New Scientist, 31 July 1993, page 18

TEN YEARS after the introduction of the compact disc, hi-fi buffs still
quarrel about whether records or CDs deliver the real sound of music. But a
new test involving 160 audiophiles suggests that the debate is largely
academic. Only 1 person in 40 could distinguish between analogue and digital
sound sources, in tests conducted by Klaus-Ernst Behne and Johannes
Barkowsky, two music psychologists from the Hannover Conservatory.
   Fans of the CD sound talk of its "dry and analytic" properties. Record
lovers, however, call it "cold, shrill and dead", as againts the vinyl's
"warm" sound. Records are made directly from the original, analogue sound in
the production process; CDs contain compressed, digitally sampled music,
which is then decompressed and converted electronically back to the analogue
form. Laboratory tests show that CDs have noise levels 20 to 30 decibels
lower than records, with better stereo channel separation, and a better
dynamic range, of about 90 decibels. However, it remains questionable
whether these advantages can really be heard in a home environment.
   Behne and Barkowsky played identical classic and jazz recordings
alternately from a CD player (D) and a record player (A) to 160 audiophiles.
The sources were alternated several times, so each person heard the same
recording either in a A,D,A,D,A or D,A,D,A,D sequence. They were asked to
decide which was first in each sequence, and to judge the sound
characteristics. The psychologists blended the signals in and out with a
fader and kept the players hidden.
   The test group included sales staff drawn from expensive hi-fi shops,
audio component designers, music students and professional musicians, music
lovers who frequently attend concerts and people with no special interest in
music. Each heard six sound sequences.
   Only 4 of the 160 distinguished between CD and record every time, and
only 17 scored 5 out of 6. Most surprising, though, was that music buffs
fared no better than casual listeners.
   Sound quality was judged equally often to be "pleasant". Statistically
there was a slight trend confirming common hearing stereotypes, with CD more
"brilliant" and records more "warm". Even so, out of 960 tests, 219 times
(23 per cent) the listeners found the CD warmer than the record, and 207
times (22 per cent) the record was judged more brilliant than the CD.
   Even before the test, the two psychologists expected highly subjective
judgments. "Sometimes, the human perception is driven by a priori
expectations. The barking of your own dog won't disturb you, but the barking
of the neighbour's dog appears unbearable. Non-acoustic criteria seem to
influence our hearing perception as well" says Behne.
   Thus, CD fans expecting to listen to a CD and record fans expecting a
record both rated the sound of their favourite sound carrier extraordinarily
"natural", "transparent", "three-dimensional" and "pleasant". Their notion
about which they were listening to was wrong in many cases.
   In another test, the psychologists played Chopin preludes from the CD
player, changing its volume to suggest a source change. Self-designated CD
and record fans who listened to this D,D,D,D sequence got lost in their
respective perception fantasies. "An astonishing number of them heard
differences which in fact could not exist. Hi-fi expertise didn't result
in higher caution. It was the laymen who tended to hear no difference," says
Behne.
   Nor did the price of the equipment make much difference. Tests with a CD
player and a record player each costing about Ł400, the second with
equipment costing around Ł4000 each, produced similar results in both cases.
***********

Udv, Me'sza'ros Ferenc

( kedves nezoink, ezt tenyleg nem moderaltuk ki, akinek nem tetszett,
elnezest kerek. Almasy L. )